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Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord - now available on Early Access

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Turisas, Sep 28, 2012.

Page 107 of 158

Deadman Arcane

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Nov 15, 2010

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3,744
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2651

Lithium Flower said: ↑

sleep deprived sperging time, here we go.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm feeling pretty shocked and dismayed as to how much of a step backwards mass infantry combat in this game is and I have always been pretty reserved with my expectations for this game - I can only imagine how the people who were on the hype train for years must feel (although everyone seems to be praising the pretty graphics and looking forward to doing the same grind they have been doing for years in warband so maybe my interests don't align with those held by the majority of the fan base.)

Here are more findings from just a few more minutes of custom battles:

1. Infantry uses spears exclusively against cav now. They will always switch to their sidearms when approached by other infantry. This means that features of classic modded formations from M&B (as seen in Viking Conquest), such as shield walls putting shield-bearers to the front and polearm or twohander-wielding soldiers to the backlines, are gone - but it doesn't really matter because of the below finding.

2. Even if the AI used spears against infantry, you wouldn't want them to, because the spastic collision (or lack thereof) means every engagement is in the raping distance where spears lose their one advantage. There is no need for backline weapons such as long spears, two-handers, and polearms because there is often no back line at all, but a single line compromised of a screaming, churning mass of chimeric men.

3. Because there is little to no space between individual characters in a melee, the (enabled by default) option to show your banner above friendly troops ends up covering half of your screen in glowing shit. Disabling this option, you will find that you still can't distinguish friend from foe, because once two infantry lines are engaged in melee they look like a mass of swarming termites. Your choices are to see fuck all or to see fuck all else.

4. Characters don't know how to fight in formations. Taleworlds supposedly released a beta patch in February specifically to address this! I can put my guys in a shield wall or a square and the individual soldiers will only fight back against enemies attacking them directly. The whole point of a formation is that its individual soldiers should be able to cover each other, such that a single foe faces multiple weapons at once. As it stands now they are incredibly conservative and get swarmed easily.

5. As a combination of all of the above, cavalry is even more OP in this game than in warband. Historically realistic? Sure. But historically, the counter to heavy cav (besides other heavy cav) was of course a tightly packed infantry formation armed with long spears and polearms. Because of all of the above findings, however, infantry has an icecube's chance in hell of holding up against significantly fewer numbers of cavalry. In custom battles I tested empire vs empire match ups of an increasingly smaller number of heavy cav (from 150 to 50) against 250 infantry, in ideal conditions for infantry (tight formation, spears, holding their position, etc) and every single time the cavalry completely trounced my infantry. Out of the initial charge a handful of horses may be stopped in their tracks by the wall of men, but when half of them aren't interested in attack, the mass advantage ends up not mattering at all.

The sad thing is that Viking Conquest did all of this not simply better but very competently indeed and it wasn't even developed by the core Taleworlds team. The sadder thing is that original warband - and, fuck, the legacy M&B versions - did some of these aspects, such as unit cohesion etc, noticeably better.

Eight fucking year, lads. Oh well - carry on discussing how its cool that there are children in the game and how pretty the towns look now (because both of those things are indeed nice additions, though they only feel me with greater resentment, and a yearning for a game that has all that in addition to an improved core combat experienced).
Click to expand...

It seems to me like there is some sort of collision between troops.

Like they held the line, not transform into a blob.

Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
Agree x 3
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Harthwain Scholar

Joined:

Dec 13, 2019

Messages:

695
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2652

Deadman said: ↑

Practice fight is garbage. Archers can kill you before you can run towards them if you don't have shield, YOU DONT GAIN SKILLS FOR FIGHTING and you get like 5 gold even if you kill a bunch of dudes (I think my record was 5 guys).
Click to expand...

It's... a practice fight. I am certain you're not supposed to profit from it, but to practice your manual skills.
Agree x 1
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Irenaeus' Vagina Novice

Joined:

Apr 4, 2016

Messages:

23
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2653

Black Angel said: ↑

RK47 said: ↑

...we should be able to do more with LoversLab mods.
Click to expand...

Right, we forgot to ask the most important questions:

Is Dickplomacy in or not?
Click to expand...

It's in and out, actually.
Funny x 4

Brofist x 2

nice x 1
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Black Angel Arcane

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Jun 23, 2016

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Wonderland

Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2654

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Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

Joined:

Feb 11, 2018

Messages:

3,025

Location:

Cada juego de fantasía hecho

Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2655

Irenaeus' Vagina said: ↑

It's in and out, actually.
Click to expand...

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Tiger Learned

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Jan 29, 2019

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116

Location:

Neriak Third Gate
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2656

So it's literally just Warband in a new engine. Why has this taken 8 years? Do all Turks work this slow?
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Deadass Learned

Joined:

Mar 28, 2017

Messages:

179
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2657

is it good? i haven't played it yet

yeah, it's good

Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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vonAchdorf Arcane

Joined:

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Messages:

9,448
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2658

Catacombs said: ↑

Alienman said: ↑

The towns look really pretty but it seems almost pointless to actually walk around in them, except for roleplaying (larping).
Click to expand...

Agreed. I love that you can click on a portrait and be taken directly to that person to speed things up.
Click to expand...

During the campaign / quests some people don't show up in the fast click menu and you have to enter the town to find them.
Informative x 3
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Nerevar N'wah

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Jul 10, 2017

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752

Location:

Balmora
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2659

Just finished the "talk to 10 lords" story quest was pretty tedious. Hopefully it picks up soon.

Endure. In enduring, grow strong. - Dak'kon
Despair x 1

Fabulously Optimistic x 1
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Infinitron I post news

Joined:

Jan 28, 2011

Messages:

82,841
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2660
Balanced x 7
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dehimos Augur

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Jan 11, 2011

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180
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2661

List of bugs: https://steamcommunity.com/app/261550/discussions/0/2149847049317941406/
Funny x 1

Despair x 1
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Tiger Learned

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Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2662

dehimos said: ↑

List of bugs: https://steamcommunity.com/app/261550/discussions/0/2149847049317941406/
Click to expand...

8 years in dev, full price game, riddled with bugs and we still expect modders to make it worth playing. Fucking amateurs.
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Van-d-all Arbiter

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Location:

Silesia Superior

Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2663

Outside of the "super immersion" bug that makes every battle in FPP start with seeing my own facial hair from within, the game is quite fun. Soloing everything on realistic is pretty enjoyable so far.

nuXcom killed TB tactical games

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vota DC Arbiter

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Messages:

1,136

Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2664

Aemar said: ↑

Butter said: ↑

Apparently you can't choose your starting area. Bit disappointing.
Click to expand...

It's the campaign mode, so probably that's why.
Click to expand...

They could give different starting weapons for each background: as two handed battanian with bow skills I had only one handed and polearm weapons for the whole tutorial.

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Van-d-all Arbiter

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Silesia Superior
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2665

vota DC said: ↑

Aemar said: ↑

Butter said: ↑

Apparently you can't choose your starting area. Bit disappointing.
Click to expand...

It's the campaign mode, so probably that's why.
Click to expand...

They could give different starting weapons for each background: as two handed battanian with bow skills I had only one handed and polearm weapons for the whole tutorial.
Click to expand...

The third to last character choice (military career) does exactly that.

nuXcom killed TB tactical games
Informative x 2
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Utgard-Loki Arcane

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Messages:

1,440
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2666

horsie got ouchie.

"And what have we now in Germany? A land of bankers and car-makers. Even our great army has gone soft. Soldiers wear beards and question orders. I am not ashamed to say I believed in National Socialism. I still wear the Iron Cross with diamonds Hitler gave me. But today in all Germany you can't find a single person who voted Adolf Hitler into power. Many Germans feel guilty about the war. But they don't explain the real guilt we share — That we lost." - Hanna Reitsch
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Turisas Arch Devil

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#2667
Funny x 28

hopw roewur ne x 1
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Trans-Financial-Man Savant

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554
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#2668

I played Bannerlord yesterday and I thought it was okay.

10 hours went by quicker than I could realise. The game is just as engrossing as Warband. But a little bit more polished in some areas, but not others like [STRING LITTLE BROTHER INVALID NAME NOT FOUND] oh and that awful bit where [STRING GIVING A SHIT INVALID] However, Native is still a pretty bland setting.

Bring on the Warhammer and LotR mods.
Brofist x 2

Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it x 1
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AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities

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Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2669

Got it for 40 Eurobucks at Cdkeys! Good bargain. Can't wait to give it a try.

Regarding the collision problems that Lithium Flower is describing, I doubt anything that was fixable in Warband won't be fixable in Bannerlord. :fabulously_optimistic:

CONCEPTUALIZATION - Bravo! Continue, then, in the mediocre and vulgar epigones of the world. So what if everything is incomprehensibly shit and you can see it. Take no responsibility. -- Disco Elysium
Agree x 1

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Trans-Financial-Man Savant

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Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2670

AwesomeButton said: ↑

Got it for 40 Eurobucks at Cdkeys! Good bargain. Can't wait to give it a try.

Regarding the collision problems that Lithium Flower is describing, I doubt anything that was fixable in Warband won't be fixable in Bannerlord. :fabulously_optimistic:
Click to expand...

By all accounts, everything should be even more fixable. Taleworlds are claiming much less of Bannerlord is hardcoded. So even greater feats of modding can be achieved even easier than before.
Brofist x 1
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Tiger Learned

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Neriak Third Gate

Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2671

Turisas said: ↑

Click to expand...

Some great potato heads in this. She looks like she's having a stroke.

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thesheeep Arcane

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Mar 16, 2007

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Tampere, Finland
Mar 31, 2020 Stats Ignoring

#2672

Yeah. Okay.
Will possibly be playable and good in a year?

Caim said:

On most parts of the internet you tell the sheep to wake up.
But on the RPG codex, the one told by the sheep to wake up is you!
Click to expand...

"wherever you are here is on the screen as you are"
- bigben23
Fabulously Optimistic x 1
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Deadass Learned

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#2673
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Turisas Arch Devil

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May 25, 2009

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#2674

Fuck that whore, true bros side with Garios.
Salute x 2

Prestigious x 1

[citation needed] x 1
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AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities

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#2675

The character editor reminds me of the story when I let my wife play Dragon Age Inquisition. Spent 40 minutes just on choosing a hairstyle in the character editor. In the end went with a Qunari.

CONCEPTUALIZATION - Bravo! Continue, then, in the mediocre and vulgar epigones of the world. So what if everything is incomprehensibly shit and you can see it. Take no responsibility. -- Disco Elysium
Funny x 4
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