Moving JRPGs forward

lol

 

So Saint really is dead?

 

No he's just fucking with you.

 

So their suggestions for improving JRPGs is to add the worst features of western RPGs? Kinda the opposite of what I would do..

 

Taken WAY out of context. The author specifically states that waypoints shouldn't be used where exploration or locating something or someone is the 'key' to the quest. The impression seems to be that if your character wouldn't know a location then no waypoint, but if your character knows roughly where something is (or could find out by asking a passerby) then that should be built into the map system.

 

As Azrael said, it's very much taken out of context.

Overall, the article seems to hint that the biggest problem behind JRPGs is that, since they've been fucking created however many years ago, they haven't changed at all. You just have more WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS on the screen.

 

I'm opposed to quest journals in any RPG, I like making my own notes. If I'm investigating a murder, for example, and I find an important clue, it's up to me to decide if it's signifigant, and not have this giant text box pop up saying CONGRATULATIONS YOU SOLVED THE MYSTERY NOW REPORT TO THE TOWN GUARD FOR 500 GOLD PIECE REWARD.

 

Yeah, the Witcher did an interesting job of that with the autopsy / murder mystery. From memory, the diary recorded the clues and their significance on the basis of what choice the player makes, rather than giving their 'real' significance. Regardless of the choice the player makes, the diary will look as though the player made the 'right' choice, as that reflects what the character would think. It put quite a few people off, however, as they came out of it going 'huh, you just had to [insert simple quest solution here] - that was WAY too simple', not realising that they'd made a huge mistake, condemened an innocent guy and hadn't got anywhere close to getting the 'right' answer. Maybe a complete absence of a journal would have worked better in that situation - players wouldn't instantly assume that whatever the journal says is 'right'.

 

IIRC, The Witcher investigation determines how the encounter would work out.

If you botched it: You wouldn't suspect that you're being lead into a trap.

If you did it right and found out the truth, you get to smack Javed on the face in the cutscene.

 

That's a particularly odd complaint to level at JRPGs. For all their flaws, they are far, far more eclectic in their themes than Western RPGs. I'm no expert or enthusiast, but I remember Disgaea took place entirely in some quirky demon world, I remember reading about a game called Eternal Sonata that " features fantastical events during the last three hours of composer Frederic Chopin's death", and even the huge Final Fantasy series is hard to peg as fantasy or sci-fi. Tolkien derivatives they ain't.

I think Western RPGs tend to be WAY more derivative thematically. Not that it bothers me.

 

Not at all. While there's always the odd exception, like the two you mentioned, but I've been complaining for ten years now that JRPGs need to break out of the Dungeons & Dragons rut.

Think Outside the Treasure Chest

I wrote that back in 2000.

From the newly revised opening paragraph:

Since this was written, a lot of things have changed. Microsoft released a new Shadowrun game -- or rather, a Shadowrun Counter-Strike mod. And I'm happy to report that fantasy RPGs no longer dominate the industry. Now, fantasy MMORPGs dominate the industry!

Granted, I was complaining about both Western and Japanese RPGs, but I wouldn't say one is much more diverse than the other. It's sad when the majority of unique settings, like Planescape: Torment or Shadowrun, have to be licensed from Pen & Paper RPGs, which have distanced themselves a lot further from their D&D past. I mean, last time I checked, there were multiple horror/western Pen & Paper RPGs. There's not one Japanese or Wester -- er, American -- RPG with a horror/western theme.

One of the best things about Persona 3 is that, in addition to being a horror game (also a plus), it was set in modern-day Japan, basically falling into the Urban Fantasy genre as well. That's two sweet genres with one game.

 

While the author does make some good points (I particularly agree that JRPGs should develop characters more through banter that flows naturaly from play instead of through cutscenes), he seems to have missed some pretty gaping problems with JRPGs.

Such as: (1) Increasing reliance on annoying mini-games and (2) utlization of real-time combat systems instead of turn-based ones.

I also kind of wish that JRPGs would make some small attempt at realism in their combat instead of having enouncters play out with the logic of a puzzle game.

 

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm maintaining a (very small) list of next-gen (PS3/360) turn-based games. It's abysmal. Most JPRGs on Xbox 360 use the "Tri-Ace" combat system, where people run around whacking stuff in real time. If you want a traditional RPG, you're pretty much limited to Enchanted Arms and the Mistwalker games, Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey.

 

Good point about Persona 3: actually, you could expand that to ALL the Shin Megami Tensei series. Digital Devil Saga is basically a post-apocalyptic world where humans transform into demons AND EAT PEOPLE, Devil Summoner is set in 1920's Japan, and Persona 3 and 4 (and I believe 1 and 2 as well) are setting in/near modern-day Japan, and variants thereof: 3 had a slightly more technological bent, as it was in a big city - Person 4 is a careful representation of life in the Japanese countryside, and features the conflict between the urban/rural and human apathy as major themes. Shit, the latter features in P3 as well, so - yeah.

One thing: I'd like less load-bearing DESTROY THE WORLD AND MAKE IT ANEW bosses and figures that don't appear until near the end of the game. Western RPGs do this too, but whichever side of the world it's from? Gotta stop. Gettin' old.

 

Do you seriously just sit around and wait for someone to mention the Witcher so you can jump in with the same old criticisms?

We get it. You don't like it. For a game you dislike, you sure spend an awful lot of time posting about it.

The mechanics behind the investigation quest have nothing to do with the lack of any significant consequences for how successfully you solve it. Two entirely different discussions.

 

Dear, dear Willis, I must ask what you're talking about. Not at all? No, YES at all. I mentioned three, and one of them was frigging Final Fantasy, which is certainly the most popular JRPG franchise stateside. Sure you can bring up Dragon Quest as you did in your article, but that traditional fantasy approach is by no means the norm in JRPGs. I don't even own a console, but if people started naming JRPGs which "explore other, more unusual locales", the list would stretch out for quite a bit. The whole premise, that JRPGs grew from D&D and Wizardry, seems pretty questionable to me, although I admit I'm not a historian of the genre.

Again, look to Final frigging Fantasy. Are you going to call that a generic swords and sorcery game a la Drakensang? Seriously? I mean, in the West we're so used to the same old themes that we praise a game like Darklands for being different. I mean, it was, but think about how tied in we are to the swords and sorcery schtick that a game that had swords and sorcery was considered a mold-breaker...

The Japanese, OTOH, inscrutable as they are, are constantly putting out games like Valkarie Profile, Star ocean, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts, Infinite Undiscovery (no, I'm just reading these off the Square website)... They've even set at least one in the American West. How many frigging AMERICAN RPGs have been set in our own Wild West? I can't think of any. Point is, compare these titles to our RPGs, and then tell me: Can you honestly say that the Japanese are anywhere near as rooted in the D&D/Tolkien tradition as we are?

If you say yes, you're on crack. CRACK.

 

Yes, modern/victorian/wild west/world war/WHATEVER would be an improvement on Medieval land. Still waiting for Second World War rpg

 

No, it'd be a change. Maybe a nice change for many. But an improvement it would be not. An improvement would be an medieval fantasy world that is consistent and makes sense (even from a real world perspective - IMHO, of course).

And although I haven't played an jRPG in years and not many all in all, I'd have to agree with Yeesh.

 

"Medieval", what are you talking about ?? There isn't a single "mainstream" computer rpg in medieval setting. Ok maybe there is ONE - Darklands.
All other games you think of as "medieval" have only a few "medieval" gadgets and names completly devoid of context. Like "knights" - how can knights exist without the social structure of feudalism, without ideals of chivalry, etc... In computer games they do.


What shannow said too:

- i couldn't agree more.

 

JRPGs or WRPGs?

W:
"Another War"

"Weired Wars - Operation Pantherauge"

And probably all Silent Storm games.

J:

"Operation Darkness"