My Fallout 3 impressions.

[SilasMalkav]

I like fallout 3 as a game, but the dialogue is really atrocious in places. Which is strange, because there is at least a couple of talented writers at Bethesda, for example The messages and notes in some of the vaults are 100% fallout, especially a music vault that I went into. but they don't seem to have ever grasped how to write dialogue. I guess this is just the difference between hiring writers and hiring IF/game writers.

Another thing that bugged me, was the fact that there was no massive jump in the difficulty between standard enemies (raiders, radscorps, etc) and the big guys (Enclave, Brotherhood, Super Mutants, Robots, Deathclaws) I seem remember having to wear power armor or I'd die horribly in seconds, but now it seems I can handle most things with fairly basic equipment. Enemy difficulty seems to be a bit screwed up, especially since radscorpions are one of the tough enemies now, where they were low-mid level encounters in the first games.

Also, I seem to have fudged up everything to do with the brotherhood of steel. I went to Rivet city before I went to see Three 'oh god I'm an annoying black stereotype' Dog and found out that my father went to a place that I passed on my way there. Then when I went to do the GNR mission, I didn't meet Lyon, or get a fat man, and nobody is mentioning anything about the brothood/enclave or super mutants other than the fact that they seem to dislike each other. I'm just running around feeling like I've lost a big bit of the story somewhere, and nothing really ties together.

Oh and I visited a non-destroyed vault and it still looked dull and metalic, I'd like to at least see somewhere that looked bright and clean, or had that funky new tech look like the brotherhood used to have. Still not seen their main base yet, so I'm holding my fingers crossed.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

So, Andyman (locue?), planning on paying Bethesda any money for giving you a game you played right through to the end?

No, I spent it all on beer.

 

[Imbecile]

So, Andyman (locue?), planning on paying Bethesda any money for giving you a game you played right through to the end?

No, I spent it all on beer.

Don't drink it all. If you leave a bit at the bottom of the can, apparently its ok to not pay for it

 

[Hazelnut]

I can believe that Fallout 3 could be a moderately entertaining sandbox romp with some light RPG elements and a deep coating of Bethesda's idiotic writing and moronic design choices based on stuff from VD and others.

After ~13 hours of play that pretty much sums up my opinion. I would call it an okay/mediocre game that (so far) has been more fun to play than its quality would suggest. But then I liked Morrowind, a lot.

I just wish they'd put a little more logical thought into this game. An example of retardation from last night's session is a working computer terminal on a table outside a ruined building. It had some atmospheric diary notes on it which were pretty okay and it's great that they put the effort into writing them (stuff like this really helps flesh out a world) but it's just so ridiculous where it was - why was it still working? Why wasn't it in the building? Where was the power coming from? etc

 

[Twinfalls]

As for for weapon caches. They are everywhere in F3, everywhere. It makes sense that raiders have a cache at their base. But ammo in every base/house/subway(!) just lying around?

You're right there. What I meant was those caches with just the right type of weapon for the enemy who happens to be around the corner, as you get in HL2.

And I'll just clarify my position again: the large environments, choices and yes even VATS, make the game's combat and survival more enjoyable, or at least on a par with, some of the big-name 'action' games out there, no matter what label anyone wishes to plonk on these features. Sure, it's not up there with the best - it's no Terra Nova, but compared to the recent crop...

edit: Hazelnut, 'where does the power come from' is something you could ask throughout the entire game. How about the working computers everywhere else? You're being too forensic about it methinks - and I can't shake the feeling that had this not been Bethesda and a 'Fallout' game, that's not a criticism that would have come up.

 

[Hamster]

A good action game, today, needs to break away from railroading.

Breaking away from railroading is welcomed, but not needed.
The core of FPS is mechanics of shooting stuff. And HL2 is way ahead of F3 in this part, from what i saw.
All positive qualities of F3 you listed belong to another genre, they are irrelevant in comparing shooter elements in two games.

Edward_R_Murrow made excellent post, he explained this better than me.

 

[Hazelnut]

edit: Hazelnut, 'where does the power come from' is something you could ask throughout the entire game. How about the working computers everywhere else?

You're totally right about that, it's something I noticed early and have been ignoring just like them being so commonplace 200 years after Armageddon. Until last night and this instance with other questions raised. It was just so dumb to be sitting out in the open on a fragile looking table - all shiney & working. It brought it all back to the forefront of my mind again which is a shame.

You're being too forensic about it methinks - and I can't shake the feeling that had this not been Bethesda and a 'Fallout' game, that's not a criticism that would have come up.

It's nothing to do with Bethesda per se, but may be down to my low expectations after DF->MW->OB progression - I suppose I notice this stuff quicker, and push it to the back of my head.

The main reason that comes up is simply that this is a PA world and it's 200 years after the war - and it doesn't make sense. I have a pretty good capacity to overlook stuff like this, but it doesn't mean I don't notice it. The internal consistency of a gameworld is a massive factor for immersion and a quality game for me. (one of the big reasons I loved TW)

I think it was the major reason I couldn't stomach OB. F3 is walking the line right now with me and I don't know which way it'll go.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I take it you don't care about writing to begin with.

The writing is ok overall. Occasionally it's awful, sometimes it's pretty good, overall it's more than passable. Most audio and text files are well written. Most side quests' dialogues are good. We can focus on the few idiotic lines, highlighted in my impressions as well, or we can look at the overall quality.

I can believe that Fallout 3 could be a moderately entertaining sandbox romp with some light RPG elements and a deep coating of Bethesda's idiotic writing and moronic design choices based on stuff from VD and others. Maybe worth my time if my insider connection can get me a free 360 copy (so I can blow the rest on booze to help with the "it's not Fallout" mental block), but a great action game? Please.

Also in before Codex old-guard circle-jerk committee likely comes in to your defense.

The writing is ok. See above. The early areas do create a very negative impression, but they don't represent the overall quality.

As for the great action game comment, I agree with Twinfalls and I agree with you. I guess what Twinfalls is saying that as an action game this game is more fun than most action games on account of the RPG elements. While Far Cry is more tactical and is a better shooter, it's more fun to play an action game where you have skills, manage (find, repair, make) equipment, explore freely and find new cool things, including logs and audio files, and have goals more interesting than "just kill everyone".

 

[1eyedking]

The writing is ok overall. Occasionally it's awful, sometimes it's pretty good, overall it's more than passable. Most audio and text files are well written. Most side quests' dialogues are good.

Examples of this? I'm having a lot of trouble finding those dialogue strings.

 

[Twinfalls]

Half Life 2, because it is not railroaded like that game - you can roam anywhere around the place

So it's a better action game....because it's a better sandbox RPG? Odd qualifications, no?

No. HL2 suffers from excessive railroading. The action in FO3 plays out better as a consequence. Nobody is allowed to compare HL2 with Boiling Point on your planet either I suppose?

What's most amusing is that the gist of your diatribe is that FO3 must be a poor action game, as I am comparing it with games I haven't played or do not understand. And this is coming from somebody who hasn't even played FO3 at all. How about you go away, play the fucking game for 20 hours, then come back and post in a thread entitled 'My Fallout 3 impressions', hmm? Perhaps you will then appreciate what I'm getting at.

 

[Vault Dweller]

One word: Gary.

Anything else? I mean it's a huge game. Is Gary the only representative of Bethesda's creativity or originality?

But if you are only as far as your diary suggests I am not so sure you are in a position to make these claims. You wouldn't want people to think you were completely unprofessional based on a few posts, would you?

I've seen probably 30% of the game. I'm lvl 12, I've explored a lot, and I've just met Liam. I could be mistaken and the game is about to depart Kansas and take me to the land of creative brilliance, in which case I'll take everything I said back and admit Bethesda's awesomeness, just like I admitted that they've made a pretty good game, but I don't think that making claims based on 30% is unreasonable.

But as to the 'west coast new factions new everything' I am going to go out on a limb (albeit a very short and sturdy one) and say that the backlash from that would dwarf what we have seen already.

I respectively disagree. Most people (I mean hardcore Fallout fans) were more than ok with Bethesda trying new things and understood and even supported the reasons for moving the game to the West Coast. The Fallout world shouldn't be only about BoS and super mutants, should it?

You, of all people, should well know that someone somewhere is always going to be displeased no matter what you do.

It's not like people were happy with Bethesda making a Fallout game and it's not like everyone's happy with the treatment of the existing groups.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The writing is ok overall. Occasionally it's awful, sometimes it's pretty good, overall it's more than passable. Most audio and text files are well written. Most side quests' dialogues are good.

Examples of this? I'm having a lot of trouble finding those dialogue strings.

I'll post some screens when I got home (it's 10am in Toronto, so that might take awhile).

 

[Twinfalls]

The writing is ok overall. Occasionally it's awful, sometimes it's pretty good, overall it's more than passable. Most audio and text files are well written. Most side quests' dialogues are good.

Examples of this? I'm having a lot of trouble finding those dialogue strings.

The dialogue is the biggest failing, NPCs (so far) really don't have that 'memorable characterisation' (you know what I mean) we would have wished for.

It's not a great game. But it is most certainly not a bad game. And compared with current big-budget titles, I stand by my view - it's a terrific, fantastic, fun, actiony spin-off from Fallout.

 

[racofer]

My turn, yeah!

Pros:
the lockpick minigame isn't as annoying as it could've been

Cons: You already know that part and I'm already too depressed to force myself to remember this game anylonger

Gameplay: 4/10
Graphics: 7/10
Sound: 8/10
Story: 2/10
Final note: 9,9/10

Would you like a job at gamespot? You would fit perfectly.

 

[Drakron]

The power armor easy can be explained, there are just just a few types.

The T 51-b is pretty much exclusive used by the Brotherhood of Steel but it was used by the US Military so thousand of suits were manufactured, considering how the Brotherhood of Steel is devoted to retain pre-Great War technology its no wonder those suits will be around.

But there is only ONE suit of T 51-b Power Armor in Fallout 3, the Brotherhood of Steel are using makeshift Power Armor so they are not even using 200 years old Power Armor.

As for the Advanced Power Armor, the Enclave build then after the Great War and at least 2242 they certainly had the ability to do so, after the destruction of the Oil Rig its a question of if it was manufactured on the Oil Rig or in another location, either way Fallout 3 is set in 2277 so the time gap is smaller of the loss of production abilities of the Advanced Power Armor that of the T 51-b.

If you have a problem with 200 years old Power Armor then you should have with 130 years old Power Armor.

 

[Chefe]

I can believe that Fallout 3 could be a moderately entertaining sandbox romp with some light RPG elements and a deep coating of Bethesda's idiotic writing and moronic design choices based on stuff from VD and others.

After ~13 hours of play that pretty much sums up my opinion. I would call it an okay/mediocre game that (so far) has been more fun to play than its quality would suggest. But then I liked Morrowind, a lot.

I just wish they'd put a little more logical thought into this game. An example of retardation from last night's session is a working computer terminal on a table outside a ruined building. It had some atmospheric diary notes on it which were pretty okay and it's great that they put the effort into writing them (stuff like this really helps flesh out a world) but it's just so ridiculous where it was - why was it still working? Why wasn't it in the building? Where was the power coming from? etc

Seeing as how most of FO3's charm is in pure discovery, it's easy to see why someone who enjoyed Morrowind would like it.

A computer sitting outside is the least of your problems. Ever wonder how not only that computer is getting power, but how every machine in the game, even in the most remote places, still has power? How is food still edible 200 years after the bombs dropped? And, perhaps the most immersion breaking, how can there still be running water? These are all just "game logic" that you have to expand your mind to understand (mostly that means you ignore it). However, you can come up with some kind of explanation. The proliferation of nuclear energy could explain the power supply, greatly enhanced preservatives could explain the food, and the water towers along with sturdy as fuck pipes could explain the running water.

Look, just ignore the whole 200 years thing the best you can. If you bend your mind into a paradox where the war just happened a few decades ago, but also happened 200 years ago, then everything will be fine.

 

[JarlFrank]

I didn't even know FO3 was supposed to be set 200 years after the war before reading it here. Mostly because nothing in the game makes it seem like it would be.

 

[Xor]

Let's not let pesky things like logic get in the way of our enjoyment of the best RPG evar!!! (tm).

 

[Balor]

I didn't even know FO3 was supposed to be set 200 years after the war before reading it here. Mostly because nothing in the game makes it seem like it would be.

Yea, mostly because people don't really behave like it's been a few generations after the bombs fell. Somebody already mentioned literacy, and it's a very good question... the Moira questline for 'writing a book' is not only haven for the most stupid dialogue in the game, but if you think about it - it's utterly pointless! The 'target audience' of those books (wastelanders, for instance) should not be able to read it!
Is there anything in Fallout lore that can explain this?

 

[Stevee Wonder]

Is there anything in Fallout lore that can explain this?

Do you need Fallout lore to tell how people can learn to read? WTF?

Holy shit man... just wow.

Maybe it's a fucking pop-up picture book with Molerats that fold up. Then even you might fucking understand it.

 

[Drakron]

Somebody already mentioned literacy, and it's a very good question... the Moira questline for 'writing a book' is not only haven for the most stupid dialogue in the game, but if you think about it - it's utterly pointless!

Why? I mean serious folk ... its not WRITING WAS CREATED OVER OVER 4000 YEARS!

RIGHT!

I guess LITERACY CAN ONLY BE ARCHIVED BY THE AWESOME POWER OF SCIENCE!!!! not having someone explain what letters means and how to construct phrases, you know ... HOME TEACHING!

 

[denizsi]

I've finally used my steal and science skills together to obtain FO3, after having a positive impression of it on several Codexers' accounts, here and at ITSF. I've played it for about 5 hours. It's not bad. It runs great on my ancient system with most every setting cranked up. While graphics department is quite mediocre, that's only compared to what's new out there today.

I agree with many others that it's well above OB. However, it's dull just the same. I just think that first person isn't what Bethesda does good at all, if there's anything specific at all that they can do good. Morrowind's gameworld, despite the great art direction, was also quite dull. Oblivion was worse. FO3 is more or less the same. I can't completely explain why either, though I can try:

Combat in first person is ok, and obviously great if it's well done. I can't say that's the case with FO3 but surprisingly, VATS can substitute for that, even if slo-mo camera angles are annoying.

Sneaking past (or just trying to do so) danger in first person can be a great experience. Not so when neither a real danger or environments well-suited to or crafted for sneaking exist. This is not limited to FO3 to be fair, though. Once you've played Thief 1&2, you'll find only few stealth opportunities in most games to be good.

Looking at a well crafted environment (it doesn't have to be a "beautiful" place, but a well-thought out and designed) in first person can be an inspiring experience in itself. Scratch that when such environments are mighty scarce (or as scarce as it can be 5 hours into the game, not counting the obligatory "scenes" and duration of voiced lines in dialogue).

So is moving in such environments, but moving around in game world, just to move, just to get to B from A, is one of the most tedious and boring things I can think of in games. It's not limited to first person, but it's the worst in first person as you have to keep moving manually. It doesn't get any better when you do that in a wasteland either. Fast travel could be great, except that it's not since it doesn't contain any interesting features, and you still have to explore the game world first. In first person.

I'm a graphics whore to a degree. I found enjoyment in Stalker, HL2, Crysis, Far Cry and what not, though not just because I could look at shiny surfaces. Environments in general made it very well above bearable to look at, whether it'd give a feel of desolation, beauty or what have you, successfully. And gameplay was also generally good with all of these. Obviously, Stalker is the most tedious among these, having to go through the same places on foot for several times. However, like I mentioned, environments were good, so it was affordable. So far, none of that in FO3. At all. <edit> Add all Gothic games to that short list of games up there</edit>

Pipboy is a shame. Consolization FTW, I guess. Inventory sucks. Very DX2-like. I also hate the one-click actions in inventory, mostly out of equipping/using items accidentally. Amazing that no matter what direction they take, they end up in extremes. It's either the confusing mass of stupid small icons in Morrowind, or a cold wall of text in OB and FO3. Still, Morrowind was better in this regard, especially with resizable interfaces even if they lacked identity, but whatever happened to the inventory in Daggerfall? Inventory, and Pipboy interface in general are just cold and feel empty, even if it has a good overall design. I despair even to open Pipboy for any reason.

I hate that there are no descriptions for items. So many junk to collect and not one word for any of them. The near whole gameworld is cold, dull and empty, but not in a way the Wasteland should be cold, dull and empty. The zone in Stalker is cold, dull and empty. And it feels good. Wasteland in FO3 doesn't.

To me, the game really only shines when I'm doing something other than moving for the sake of travel. That includes dialogues, as mediocre as they are, and things that dialogues lead to, or things that lead to a dialogue. Now, thinking about it, this is quite a surprise. It's Bethesda, after all.

I'll play it some more, to see how much better it gets, but I doubt that it'll get significantly better and that I'll end up using the Barter skill instead. I still haven't made a final decision though.

and it is no RPG and thus has no skill checks

It should be "has no skill checks, thus it's no RPG". That is, if you want to make sense.

 

[JarlFrank]

I didn't even know FO3 was supposed to be set 200 years after the war before reading it here. Mostly because nothing in the game makes it seem like it would be.

Yea, mostly because people don't really behave like it's been a few generations after the bombs fell. Somebody already mentioned literacy, and it's a very good question... the Moira questline for 'writing a book' is not only haven for the most stupid dialogue in the game, but if you think about it - it's utterly pointless! The 'target audience' of those books (wastelanders, for instance) should not be able to read it!
Is there anything in Fallout lore that can explain this?

I thought people in Fallout were able to read?

 

[denizsi]

Survivors after the first attacks would surely be literate, and naturally, so would most of the future generations, unless chimps abducted all newborn and raised them in caves, or on tree-tops. Just because it's post WW3, what, people will just give up teaching their children some of the most important stuff, so that what's left of the society can take a faster dip back into serfdom? Wouldn't it be the exact opposite?

 

[Elwro]

Got it. Reached the outside world. Up to now it's been better than I thought it'd be.

I put all viewing distances to the maximum and still the wasteland looks like morrowind - mushrooms + highways. Stalker looks much better.

And after replaying Bloodlines recently, I want both to close my eyes and to shut my ears when talking to someone in Fallout 3. Too bad it's impossible if you want to know what's going on. I just concentrate on the text.

Just for kicks, does leaving the Overseer alive change anything later on?