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Nioh 2

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by cruel, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    Don't be discouraged. Obviously people are more prone to talk about the negatives than the positives, because the negatives immediately impact the experience in a way that leads to frustration which in turn always elicits an emotional reaction from people. There's a lot of testing to be done, and no doubt there'll be more tuning and changes before final release.

    I just killed the serpent boss. It's the same fight as the Alpha but imo that grab needs to be nerfed. Deals way too much damage, it's fast as fuck and basically can't be dodged by normal means (have to use jumping yokai abilities).
     
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  2. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    Completed the beta. Overall pretty fun. I remain hyped for Nioh 2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
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  3. Hyperion Magister

    Hyperion
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    I didn't find him paricularly difficult, but I did laugh when I plunge attacked him and he used his grab attack for 90% of my health bar before I could move after the animation. Just a total bait-and-fuck you move to have an obvious plunge attack spot in a dark realm. Yokai having enhanced versions of their attacks in the Dark Realm is a nice little touch that makes you fight them differently depending on the area though.

    Yeah, the grab attack felt overtuned with hardly a telegraph to get the fuck outta Dodge. When you reenter the arena following a death, and he charges his face-spike at you IMMEDIATELY is some real bullshit. Especially since I one-shot the Kamaitachi and didn't know you auto-recover your spirit on death if you die in a boss room. Weasel boss definitely felt more in the 'just right' difficulty spot than the Snake, BUT, I will say Burst Attacks are my least favorite introduction to the game. Used 6 of 8 Elixirs in the first boss fight due to an inability to use the Burst Counter. Every time it initiated the attack, I had just committed to my own attack, and there's not enough windup to stop, and then counter, or I was mid-combo and could do nothing to stop myself. Half of them are OHKO's from the easiest enemies with little to no charge time that will interrupt your combo no matter the action. I was instakilled 3 or 4x mid-combo by simple human soldiers that charge at you and stab your fucking face 3 times with no real chance to ever Counter. And their charge distance is FAR, with great tracking. A dash to the side resulted in them turning on a dime and killing me anyway.

    Speaking of the Counters, I used the Brute Spirit for the 1st level, and the Phantom for the 2nd. Brute Counter is an attack that will knock an enemy out of its Burst attack and cause p massive Ki damage, which works well until you're stuck in the middle of a combo, or keep to anything beyond immediate melee range with a Yokai (which everyone does...) because you simply can't get in range to stop the attack in time. I have no idea how the Phantom's Counter is supposed to work, even after doing the tutorial. Seems to be more of a standard Parry skill, but I can't figure out what the actual window is, because it certainly isn't the duration of the shapeshift. I don't think I successfully pulled it off once in active combat.

    The improved monster variety helps immensely with combat, and will certainly keep things fresher for longer. As is the case in all things, once you see a few of the attacks, get yourself out of the starter gear and (me at least) get the rust off, and get used to not having Wirriamu with a full complement of skills, they become much less intimidating. A lack of variety was my only major gripe with the original, and fighting the same 3 or 4 Oni / Oni Ninja every stage got old. I've also faith they learned from the previous that higher difficulties also warrant different monster setups (watch what you wish for.....) beyond just adding a few buffs to Red Clouded Yokai on WotD+. Of all the enemies in the Beta, the most frustrating of them was...The Aberrant Soldier. They're just fucking obnoxious for an enemy that is going to be as / more common than Dwellers were in the first game. I took so much unnecessary goddamn damage because the cocksuckers are either bugged, or have an invulnerability phase at some point while charging the cannon shot. I lost count of the number of times Cherry Blossom (2kat high stance press triangle at end of combo tech) went straight through one of them with no damage, and no ki damage as if it had been blocked. Again, their burst attack is absolutely bullshit with hardly any windup that will happen mid combo and causes a massive fire explosion at its own feet.

    Waira (fat worm fucker) gave me the most trouble at first, but he became a lot more bearable once I stopped trying to hit his glowing belly, or going behind him (poorly telegraphed attacks that will happen at a moment's notice? No thanks, faggot) to try and deal too much damage. Staying in his frontal vision and keeping appropriate distance with heavy attacks worked better than trying to evade. His roll does insane damage, but hardly touches your Ki if you block. Funny, that. Enki has some weird spacing between attacks, as well as some funky tracking with the spear, but once I shook the rust off he barely touched me anymore. The old cunt with the spear was p much whatever, and is vulnerable to headshots from a Bow so you can treat them as annoying human enemies. The 'genki'-squads were actually kinda fun since you really wanna make sure they don't eat your face / anima and grow into the 'roided out version. The whole jumping-on-your-face meme between them and the snekwhores were a bit much though. Use a different fuck you trap once in awhile, TN. Checking the ceiling before entering every room, or above every corpse with amrita gets old. Fast.

    Final note regarding enemies. The new ones are. Fucking. Fast. And much more aggressive than the last game. Even basic humanoid soldiers fucked me good because they had longer combos, delays in their attack patterns, and just overall moved faster with better tracking than the last game. Also Yokai don't have horns that give you an insta-break like all of the Oni from the first. Breaking the crystals off the 4-armed fucker's back doesn't do anything but make him mad and unlock the rest of his moveset.

    I primarily used the Dual Katanas as my weapon of choice. They're still my favorite of all the types, but man did I forget how brutally terrible they are without a couple of 'end of combo' skills like Cherry Blossom and God of Wind. Since Skill Points are weapon-specific this time around, you can't even start with something else and then skill up the 2kats for later use. You HAVE to use them when they suck to make them fun. I think Dual Dragon was the only new skill I noticed for them, which is a Low Stance-only, Press Triangle at the End of Combo skill....and it's shit. God of Wind hits faster, and with God of Wind III hits faster, more, and harder. And it doesn't put you in a precarious position after spending way too much time in the air. Since GoWIII is a prerequisite for Moon Shadow, which obliterates humanoid Ki, it's a no brainer which you should pick up. But hey, it looks fucking badass though. Windstorm, and Water Sword are still mutually exclusive, which is highly disappointing. Given Windstorm's ease of use, Defensive, and AoE / Crowd Control capabilities with its massively nerfed damage there's no reason it shouldn't be a Mid Stance skill. The biggest weakness of the duals was its severe famine of skills, which led to major repetition of 1 or 2 (you can make that argument for most, but other weapons at least had the option to make use of a bunch of shit) skills. Usually Sign of the Cross and Water Sword. Speaking of Water Sword, they changed the command from tap triangle to hold triangle, and boy oh boy did that fuck me up quite a bit. Not sure how long it'll take me to get used to that, if ever. Would really love to know what it would take to get Team Ninja to allow both Water Sword, and Windstorm to be used at the same time...

    ...Tried the Hatchets, and was not impressed. Way too much focus on throwing them, and the throws were all shit. Too much windup for too little payoff. The ability that lets you throw a spinning axe that stays behind as an edged turbine did prety much nothing. An enemy stood in it for the duration and it ticked 11 twice before disappearing. They also get a copy-pasted version of Water Sword that attaches to the end of a High Stance combo, which seems excellent, except the final hit of the High Stance knocks everything it would stagger out of range so that the flurry entirely misses. Basically a slower Dual Kat with less payoff imo. Hope I'm proven wrong and late game those throws are devastating because I've seen nobody make them look good. Guess I got my hopes up, expecting something like a cross between The Axe, and Dual Katanas, and instead they gave us something entirely different. Unorthodox to say the least, so I'll give them credit for that at least.

    Gave the Switchglaive a very limited look because the Mid Stance glaive kept hitting walls, and the first stage is way too narrow for that shit. Strikes me as a slightly speedier version of the Odachi, my second favorite weapon. I'll definitely give it a real spin when I'm not struggling to survive in beginner equipment at release, because I'm intrigued by it. Especially since it combines well with Onmyo, which was severely lacking in offense the first game. Ended up settling on the Odachi as my backup weapon, and it's just as wonderful as ever. Didn't even bother looking at the new skills, if there were any, because Moonlit Snow, and basic High Stance attacks are that goddamn good.

    Was able to fill out close to half the Dual Katanas' tree in just 2 stages....I'm hoping some of those blank spots on each constellation are not in the demo, and there's more planned for the full release....otherwise it'll be a bit sad. Also really hope they up the flavor and strength of the passives, because +50 Ki while equipped with Dual Swords is total shit, and hardly even worth grabbing. You start with just shy of 1,000 Ki. Less than 5% boost for 3 skill points is an awful tradeoff.

    Level design was excellent - both levels gave you 2, or even 3 pathways to tackle to reach the goal. But, given the autistic search for Kodamas (Missed 1 in Stage 1, got all of 'em in Stage 2) you're just gonna plow through everything anyway. I did enjoy that clearing the 'alternate' paths did make the initial pathway easier to clear out for loot in both stages. Draining the water to have even more to explore, while simultaneously creating shortcuts to Shrines was an excellent touch. 1st area level design was a lot better than the 2nd for sure. The caves all looked a bit too samey.

    Dark Realm, and Yokai Skills are interesting beasts especially since they seemingly go hand in hand. Dark Realm is essentially an extended Yokai Realm you can't immediately cleanse, and engulfs an entire area. Overall meant as another Fuck You. Since there's a heavy emphasis on it, I rushed the 30% reduced Ki Regen penalty passive, and it helped. A lot. When combined with purifying a Yokai Realm inside it, my Ki Regen went through the roof, and I was able to go on the offensive for the duration. Bosses can, and will initiate the Dark Realm like motherfuckers, at which point you're pretty much forced to go on the defensive. Problem there is, the Dark Realm lasts until you break the boss's Ki, which is where Yokai Skills come into play. Your Anima bar (Yokai Skill resource) increases faster in the DR, and Yokai Skills consume so no Ki on use, so you use Ki purely for dodging and blocking, then use Yokai Skills in an opening. Most Yokai Skills kinda suck, but the ones that are good....are pretty goddamn good. The weasel boss attack is quite nice, strikes multiple times, has good range, and knocks an enemy back with each hit. The Ippon-Datara hammer skill is pretty much a guaranteed burn on anything that isn't fire-resistant, which will make getting Discord real easy as you get your build ready.

    Lastly, Ki Recovery....holy fuck they nerfed the shit out of Ki Recovery rate. I've been pretty goddamn good at Ki Pulsing since I started the first entry, because I immediately knew it would be the secret to enjoying the combat, but I'm still so damn strained for Ki, even while making sure I maintain a B in agility with Heavy Armor. I did some research on it, and it seems to be a common complaint from people. I know they added the 'Courage' stat, which affects Tonfa damage, and Ki Recovery, and the most apt comparison I've seen is Adaptability from DS2. Unless Courage is their way of making up to Tonfa users how much that weapon sucked in Nioh 1, and they want them to have a defining feature like Ki Regen.

    Edited Note: They nerfed Stance Switching after a Ki Pulse to boot. Used to be able to get bonus Ki from switching your stance twice (i.e. from High to Mid to Low). You're limited to only once now.

    I unlocked the Twilight Missions, but will probably avoid doing them. Don't want to play too much and keep the game as fresh as possible come March. Still enjoyed the game, but it will definitely take time for everyone to get used to the new stuff. Gonna put in some shortened feedback on that link. Sorry if this ran on too long.

    Edit 2: Included a photo of my Waifu for necessity's sake.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    Edit 3: Wind and Earth elements removed? The hell is that about?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  4. sullynathan Arcane

    sullynathan
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    The grab move is surprising but what's difficult is getting stun locked by long combos.

    I always pull enemies out of the Yokai realm to fight them, I didn't know it affected their damage output.
     
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  5. Hyperion Magister

    Hyperion
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    I don't think pulling them out of the Dark Realm brings their attacks back to normal. For example, the Flying Thing with the flaming stick typically fires 3 homing fireballs at you, in the dark realm it's 6 or 7. When I pulled him out of the one you can access behind the wall golem, his attacks were still enhanced. 4-armed fucker gets the equivalent of Windstorm 2, and more Shockwaves on his ranged attack. They also have longer combos and for sure hit harder than the standard version. You can compare that fight to the one that spawns in front of the 3rd Snake Statue at the bottom of the cave. Much easier. Has less defense too. Just be careful about breaking the crystals on his back, they just make him mad instead of a free Ki Break now.
     
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  6. Hyperion Magister

    Hyperion
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    Sorry Wunderbar it was mostly just my gut reaction jotted down immediately after finishing the second stage, like a stream of consciousness. But I wanted full details purposely.

    To shorten it: it's still Nioh. New 'Burst Atack' mechanic is kinda dumb, unnecessary, and can be a bit unfair.

    Enemy variety is good and will lengthen the time it takes for you master the game. Dark Realm changes every Yokai, so it kinda sorta doubles the moves to memorize.

    Returning weapons are too similar to Nioh 1's version. Not many changes, or new skills. Hatchets were lame. Too much throwing focus. Skill points are all weapon specific. Skill points gained from leveling are all specific to the 'Samurai' tree, which is all of the passive Ki Pulse shit. Also you can add damage boosts based on specific stats to individual abilities.

    Ki Recovery was obliterated. New stat 'Courage' ups Recovery Speed, which is making people think its gonna be the new Adaptability.

    Earth and Wind elements poofed. Kamaitachi, the Wind Weasel, hit with no element. No idea if it's for beta, or they're actually gone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  7. Jinn Arcane

    Jinn
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    Great posts, Hyperion. Thanks a lot. Sounds like a lot of good stuff going on there. Refreshing to read such an in-depth analysis of both the pros and cons of the beta.
     
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  8. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    what weapons are tossed and are there new weapon? ( i remember the dual sword is replaced by double axes)
     
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  9. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    all Nioh 1 weapons are back, and beta has dual axes and switchglave as new weapons, with 1 slot of the grid still missing so supposedly the full release will have 3 new weapons total.
     
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  10. Dyskolos Cipher

    Dyskolos
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    For those who like the increased difficulty vs Nioh 1 (or those who are worried about it) - I'm pretty sure the demos and betas for the first game were significantly harder than the final product ended up being. I was never sure if they actually tweaked it downward based on feedback or if the levels and bosses they'd selected just weren't the best representation but it felt a marked difference.
     
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  11. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
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    Naginata or kunai/dagger would be my guess unless they do something weird (like switchglaive).
     
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  12. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Nunchaku
     
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  13. Trans-Financial-Man Savant

    Trans-Financial-Man
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    No.
     
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  14. sullynathan Arcane

    sullynathan
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  15. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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    you left out the interesting bit bro
     
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  16. sullynathan Arcane

    sullynathan
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    TheSentinel It isn't hard to click the link and read.
     
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  17. TheSentinel Arcane

    TheSentinel
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  18. Hyperion Magister

    Hyperion
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    Beta Test is right. Buncha pussies. Difficulty was fine once you got some gear tho, just some animations were wonky that made certain enemies a bigger pain in the ass than they ought to be. Bet it was the Japs who whined the most. Shamefur dispray by the Samurai.

    :incline:

    Wrote about 5 paragraphs in the feedback bemoaning hand axes being too throwing focused, with the throws all being shit. And the only melee attack it got was a Water Sword ripoff.
     
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  19. Alphard Educated

    Alphard
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    I just hope it's not same level of bs of some Nioh1 bosses 1shot fest
     
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  20. Suicidal Arcane

    Suicidal
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    Video with a new area and a big ice orc man boss:

     
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  21. sullynathan Arcane

    sullynathan
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    https://blog.us.playstation.com/2020/01/07/how-nioh-2s-open-beta-feedback-is-improving-the-game/

     
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  22. Wunderbar Arcane

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  23. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
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    I hope Yuki-Onna is back too.
     
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  24. Deflowerer Arcane

    Deflowerer
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    lol english dub
     
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  25. Fishy Learned

    Fishy
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    That's downright shocking. Did the industry learn nothing from the westernised Yakuza debacle? I seriously hope settings allow for separate text/voice languages.
     
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