Non-mondblutian RPGs

[jancobblepot]

Yes, I want to play a non-combat centric RPG. No, I don't want an adventure game, I want to create my character/s from scratch, a responsive world, C&C, etc.



And yeah, I loved PS:T, but no thanks. That's a fantastic adventure game and a poor RPG IMO. I want something better than a high INT+WIS chararcter with D&D rules.

I also played Ultima 4-7, those are my favourite games, but STR, DEX and INT are only battle skills, so the rest of the game is pretty much an adventure game (except maybe U4).


So... Any help?

 

[Jaesun]

4/10.

 

[thesheeep]

Capitalism II?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

pizza tycoon

 

[Gord]

Actually it's a good question and the codex could for once at least try to find some intelligent responses.
I'd be pretty interested in something like that, too.

 

[Serious_Business]

There are no non-mondbultian rpgs. Rpgs are about stats and loot. Shut the hell up. That's all there is to it. If you want something more go read a book

 

[Renegen]

Deus Ex, non Lethal

As I mentioned in another thread, Grand Ages : Rome is a city builder that has RPG mechanics. You pick one of 5 roman families, each with its own skill tree, whether slavery, knowledge, populism, martial skill, trade then you get to buy estates that give you particular ressoures before each mission. The campaign overall is also pretty cool. The original game is from the time of Sulla's death to Caesar's death, while the expansion pack is during Augustus's reign, so you'll get plenty of flavor and storytelling.

It's not an RPG per-se, but RPGs as you understand them are a very western thing, inspired by D&D. Combat is key. For the most part, US games are violent while European games are more pacifist, this produces more adventure and strategy games from them.

You can also check the Quest for Glory series. They are adventure games fused with RPG elements.

 

[Trash]

You're basically asking for what would amount to the old codexian's defenition of a perfect rpg. Too bad there never was any made. The rpg's that are lauded the most on this site are perhaps the ones that come closest and indeed, they pale in the light of such demands.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Actually it's a good question and the codex could for once at least try to find some intelligent responses.

Yes, I want to play a non-puzzle centric adventure. No, I don't want a dungeon crawler, I want a heavy emphasis on narrative, extensive conversations, detailed characterisation, etc.

bros offer me suggestions on this while we're turning the barrel over to see if we missed an interesting paradoxical drop

come on give me a world without item hunting or scenes in stasis or verbing the noun

 

[Alex_Steel]

Could you give an example of such a game?

 

[Mortmal]

Lets try the most obscure gems , the not so well known games as you already know the classics.
King of dragon pass , runequest world with C&C non combat centric heavy story lot of maangement, deserves to be more widely known.Albion maybe although combat centric . Or just get fantasy grounds 2 , and play a pen and aper session with real guys over the net.

 

[thesheeep]

There is no such game, or else it would be common knowledge around here.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Europa 1400 is the closest. And it even has nearly zero emphasis on combat!

More sawing on how strategy games have c&c that make the best rpgs look like bioware made all of them, etc

 

[Sceptic]

So, uh, you basically want and don't want the same things at the same time?

Also, if you want C&C, then you really should be playing adventure games.

1/10.

Fixed.

 

[Wyrmlord]

You're basically asking for what would amount to the old codexian's defenition of a perfect rpg. Too bad there never was any made. The rpg's that are lauded the most on this site are perhaps the ones that come closest and indeed, they pale in the light of such demands.

Frankly, the old Codex crowd had an absurd and unrealistic view of RPGs.

Vault Dweller, Saint Proverbius, Section8, Rosh, and Volourn have idealized a particular kind of RPG that never existed.

They never enjoyed the genre for what it was. They merely saw it as a working model for their dream game that never existed and never will exist.

What I like about the post-2007 Codex is that they worried more about existing content in existing games that they have actually enjoyed. The actual final product. Not what they wished they game had strived towards. And hence, they are able to focus on the basics and the fundamentals - good combat system, good interface, interesting locations with good encounters,.etc - and talk about where it is really most feasible to change a game for the better. Not this fiction about, "I want a game where there are ten skill checks for non-combat solutions at every stage"

Vault Dweller - not to make it sound like I have an agenda against him - repeated several times the example of the dynamite solution in Fallout on this forum to prove that creative non-combat solutions can exist in games. This was a very revisionist approach to Fallout, because the dynamite solution was just one lone solution to one lone quest. It was not very representative of Fallout as a whole, which still had a good deal of fighting involved and still stuck to othodox content.

See, because their idealized RPG never existed, they had to commit historical revision on RPGs, until they were talking about Daggerfall and Realms of Arkania as examples of...dialogue-based gameplay in RPGs.

 

[SCO]

QFG series (not really). Bloodnet (ok, not really). Bloodlines, obfuscate clan, non lethal as far as you can. Deus Ex; non lethal, arcanum; non lethal (lol), Fallout 1&2; non lethal, Geneforge 5; stealth and no lethal as far as you can, Torment; stealth playthrough only kill the 1rst zombie.

 

[Surf Solar]

So, just because he says he wants an RPG where the emphasiss is not heavily on combat, but fighting still existing he gets crushed for being a troll? This is even more funny seeing the fact that a lot of games have very crappy or poorly developed combat mechanics (you know, the thing we're often discussing here?)

I'd rather play a game where there is less of crappy combat, than to endure a game full of filler stuff and grinding.

There's nothing wrong with an RPG as the OP wants, just like Torment, if only there could be more viable alternatives to the obligatory high INT/WIS build etc..

 

[Grunker]

You're basically asking for what would amount to the old codexian's defenition of a perfect rpg. Too bad there never was any made. The rpg's that are lauded the most on this site are perhaps the ones that come closest and indeed, they pale in the light of such demands.

Frankly, the old Codex crowd had an absurd and unrealistic view of RPGs.

Vault Dweller, Saint Proverbius, Section8, Rosh, and Volourn have idealized a particular kind of RPG that never existed.

They never enjoyed the genre for what it was. They merely saw it as a working model for their dream game that never existed

So aspiration is a bad thing now?

and never will exist.

Oh, the power of prophecy!

 

[Gord]

Of recent games, FO:NV seemed to me to have a (relatively) low amount of combat, at least early-to-mid-game, or you can at least avoid it for large parts.
It also has (again relatively) many skill-checks.

Too bad the DLC is leaning more towards combat again.

Still, probably not what OP is looking for.

So, just because he says he wants an RPG where the emphasiss is not heavily on combat, but fighting still existing he gets crushed for being a troll?

Codex at it's finest.

 

[Grunker]

But what about Arcanum guys?

 

[Excidium]

Morans ITT.

What the OP wants is an RPG focused on investigation and exploration, not an RPG without combat.

Suggesting adventures is pointless because he wants a game with rich character creation, lots of skill checks and character choices to guide the game instead of pixel hunting and trial and error.

@OP

You probably already played all games that did something close to that, go play P&P RPGs...

 

[Captain Shrek]

@OP

You probably already played all games that did something close to that, go play P&P RPGs...

Tragically this.

 

[Castanova]

Tragically this.

It's not a tragedy, it's just a lack of technology. There isn't any sufficient computer model of complex human interaction nor any sufficient model of complex human-based organizations (like governments or guilds or whatever) that is available to game developers. Therefore any game trying to include this sort of thing has to rely on, at best, canned triggers created by the designers which necessarily feel shallow in the end, as compared to the "ideal." Most cases, you're dealing with dialog skill checks which boil down to raising Wis/Int/Speech past a certain threshold in order to skip combat sequences.

 

[Roguey]

Vault Dweller, Saint Proverbius, Section8, Rosh, and Volourn have idealized a particular kind of RPG that never existed.

Did you have a memory hiccup there? Volourn joined as a Bioware-loving contrarian and hasn't changed much at all.

 

[Norfleet]

Europa 1400 is the closest. And it even has nearly zero emphasis on combat!

Zero emphasis on combat, you say? So my hostile takeovers of all the guards and thieves guilds, beating and kidnapping my enemies, and cannoning the town...not combat, you say?