Nosgoth - F2P multiplayer Legacy of Kain spinoff - CANCELLED

[Vaarna_Aarne]

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Surviving Razielim concept art had wings.

 

[Zeriel]

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Surviving Razielim concept art had wings.

Yeah, but the events of SR1 take place waaaaaaay after Raziel was thrown in the pit, and much later than when humans were still a fighting force. Also, that concept art has never been confirmed to actually be the razielim, so...

 

[PlanHex]

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Why would him getting killed have any impact in the evolution of his spawn? Assuming the Razielim don't all die right away, they would follow his progression, yes?

Not that I'm defending this piece of shit. In fact, I get the feeling they've simply re-tooled something they were working on and slapped the LoK name on it. There's no other reason why this would be a LoK game.

 

[Zeriel]

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Why would him getting killed have any impact in the evolution of his spawn? Assuming the Razielim don't all die right away, they would follow his progression, yes?

Not that I'm defending this piece of shit. In fact, I get the feeling they've simply re-tooled something they were working on and slapped the LoK name on it. There's no other reason why this would be a LoK game.

Because they seem to be implying the game is set between BO and SR1? In fact, all signs point to it being set before Raziel fell (otherwise why would the Razielim be fighting alongside the other vampires?). If it's set before Raziel fell, his brood don't have wings because Raziel doesn't. If it is set after he fell, his brood should be in the process of being hunted or already extinct. Whatever interpretation you take is basically a violation of the timeline that was already in effect. Not that they give a fuck, obviously.

It's not like the extinction of his brood happened casually over time. This wasn't mild "racism" or whatever. Kain's surface reasoning (not real, but ignore that for now) for killing Raziel was that he had wings before Kain did. If his brood also sprouted wings, they would be exterminated immediately.

 

[PlanHex]

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Why would him getting killed have any impact in the evolution of his spawn? Assuming the Razielim don't all die right away, they would follow his progression, yes?

Not that I'm defending this piece of shit. In fact, I get the feeling they've simply re-tooled something they were working on and slapped the LoK name on it. There's no other reason why this would be a LoK game.

Because they seem to be implying the game is set between BO and SR1? In fact, all signs point to it being set before Raziel fell (otherwise why would the Razielim be fighting alongside the other vampires?). If it's set before Raziel fell, his brood don't have wings because Raziel doesn't. If it is set after he fell, his brood should be in the process of being hunted or already extinct. Whatever interpretation you take is basically a violation of the timeline that was already in effect. Not that they give a fuck, obviously.

It's not like the extinction of his brood happened casually over time. This wasn't mild "racism" or whatever. Kain's surface reasoning (not real, but ignore that for now) for killing Raziel was that he had wings before Kain did. If his brood also sprouted wings, they would be exterminated immediately.

I'm pretty sure the entire brood was exterminated immediately regardless of wings.
But they've ignored that I guess.

I don't wanna look at the video or the neogaf thing again, because it makes me want to throw up, but I'm pretty sure they said somewhere that the game is set between the start and end of the SR1 intro, which means around the time when the clans are riding the Razielim-holocoaster. Then some humans get uppity, which prompts all the clans to fight them instead (even though the logical choice for the Razielim would be to team up with humans at that point)




Y'know, I really love the LoK storyline, but the fact that it was just written on the fly with multiple retcons really shines through when discussing stuff like this.
I do like the fact that when you meet Kain, he doesn't have wings even though his reasoning for CAST HIM IN was that he got wings before him. Makes sense, despite not making sense on the surface.
God, I love these games. And Simon Templeman especially.


edit: also, aren't the wings in the video bird-like instead of bat-like like the SR1 intro? Less Raziel, more Janos? Silly.
Also also, in the first post you say it's set between start and end of SR1 intro. in the second you say it's set between BO and SR1. make up your mind

 

[Zeriel]

I think their explanation for that was that the "NO ONE EVOLVES BEFORE ME!!!1" thing was just a way to control the hierarchy (so the other vampires wouldn't start to get uppity and ask why he's emperor-for-forever). Obviously it didn't hold true whatsoever once Kain disappeared (since he didn't turn into a shark or a spider or a bat, like his lieutenants). To be fair, Kain was never particularly consistent in his explanations to anyone but himself, he just made stuff up to manipulate people a lot of the time.

edit: also, aren't the wings in the video bird-like instead of bat-like like the SR1 intro? Less Raziel, more Janos? Silly.
Also also, in the first post you say it's set between start and end of SR1 intro. in the second you say it's set between BO and SR1. make up your mind

That's because only they know the exact time period it is set in, so far. So basically every possible interpretation of their statements (every possible time period) violates the canon in some way. Though admittedly as you point out, most previous Legacy games fucked with the timeline seriously. I think BO2 is the only one I view as excessively dumb in this regard, though. The rest were solid.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Legacy of Kain, Blood Omen.
The only game in where the story makes sense.

Also, my favorite out of all of them BTW.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, Blood Omen was definitely the best one. The gothic influences were a lot more close to home, loved it from start to finish. It's also a lot more grounded and less masturbatory than the later games.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Tell me about it.
Plus, Kain is a lot less whiny emo than fucking Raziel.
Kain - Fuck off! Join me or die! And I scoff at your pomp and circuitry!
Raziel - Oh, I don't know, I just want to be a nice fella and I gotta do this thing and not hurt the fucking daisies while I try and munch on this guy's soul and I'm super angry because my corpse was totally defiled by Kain even tho the guy I used to be was a zealous prick.

 

[PlanHex]

Eh? He was outraged at the whole thing in SR1, but got "Kain's private joke" later in SR2:
"You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
"Apparently, I am."

I liked it, anyway.

 

[J1M]

I always looked at it as Kain not caring about turning into a shark, but rather the 'gift' of water immunity.

PlanHex, if you look at the neogaf thread with the 9 cancelled LoK games you will see that this wouldn't be the first time they have taken something else that was subpar and branded it LoK.

 

[Darth Roxor]

If you ask me, the story was still pretty coherent and made sense all the way from Blood Omen to Soul Reaver 2 (sans the unfortunate BO2, but the only very weird thing there was Vorador). It was only in Defiance that the story suddenly went full retard and left so many stupid retcons and plot holes.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Kain's reason for killing Raziel was going to still be playing the big game in the original script for SR1 before it was cut (he killed Raziel because he knew he'd absorb the Soul Reaver and be able to destroy all vampires, and eventually let Raziel kill him without a fight so he can go and finish the job with the Cathedral Spire). Jealousy, arrogance and generaly assholery as a reason was always a smokescreen he'd given for Raziel and his lieutenants.

Tell me about it.
Plus, Kain is a lot less whiny emo than fucking Raziel.
Kain - Fuck off! Join me or die! And I scoff at your pomp and circuitry!
Raziel - Oh, I don't know, I just want to be a nice fella and I gotta do this thing and not hurt the fucking daisies while I try and munch on this guy's soul and I'm super angry because my corpse was totally defiled by Kain even tho the guy I used to be was a zealous prick.

That's because Raziel IS a self-righteous twit, as Amy Hennig said. She basically outlined a running element in the series like this:

Kain is a dude who does the right thing for the wrong reasons. Raziel is the guy who does the wrong thing for the right reasons.

DraQ

The razielim having wings is pretty much direct lore rape, not sure how to explain it at all. Raziel was specifically exiled for growing wings. He was the first, not his kids. So this takes place after Raziel was thrown off the cliff and before he came back (which seems like their mostly likely explanation), which makes the razielim fighting alongside the other vampires total and utter garbage. They would be in the process of being hunted down and slaughtered. But it's exactly the sort of bullshit "explanation" you'd use if you want to have vampires who fly because all you care about is making an arena shooter with certain gameplay elements.

Surviving Razielim concept art had wings.

Yeah, but the events of SR1 take place waaaaaaay after Raziel was thrown in the pit, and much later than when humans were still a fighting force. Also, that concept art has never been confirmed to actually be the razielim, so...

Humans ARE still a fighting force during SR1's time. Kain's empire never succeeded in defeating the Citadel, as an example. You also encounter humans on commando raids in many locations that are extremely hard to reach, such as in the upper levels of Zephonim cathedral (one dude has very recently made it as far as Zephon's chamber). And humans did all but wipe out the Dumahim, the second-most-powerful clan, after Raziel's execution.

Not that the game gets the whole thing in a completely retarded manner.

If you ask me, the story was still pretty coherent and made sense all the way from Blood Omen to Soul Reaver 2 (sans the unfortunate BO2, but the only very weird thing there was Vorador). It was only in Defiance that the story suddenly went full retard and left so many stupid retcons and plot holes.

Defiance didn't do that. It mostly just wrapped up Soul Reaver 2's elements while showing what Mobius' cryptic remarks at the end of SR1 (and start of SR2) were about, and tried to deal with some of the bollocks from BO2 (though not really giving a fuck about it). Majority of the events in Defiance run parallel to what's going on in Blood Omen at the time. Pretty much the biggest retcon is that Mortanius got a new wardrobe and voice actor.

 

[DraQ]

PlanHex, if you look at the neogaf thread with the 9 cancelled LoK games you will see that this wouldn't be the first time they have taken something else that was subpar and branded it LoK.

Cancelled?

Look at BO2.

 

[J1M]

PlanHex, if you look at the neogaf thread with the 9 cancelled LoK games you will see that this wouldn't be the first time they have taken something else that was subpar and branded it LoK.

Cancelled?

Look at BO2.

Yes, that was my point. Even SoulReaver started as something else. They just did a good job with it.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I think they got lucky with Soul Reaver tho.
Game didn't have proper boss fights, just puzzles with a bad guy trying to kill you at the same time.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Shifter wasn't even past pre-production by the time they changed it to Soul Reaver.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

True.
Still got lucky with that game.
Have they actually unveiled anything or even a rumor about anything, anything at all on the Legacy of Kain series beyond this piece of shit?
Honestly, how good can an arena shooter be?

 

[Zeriel]

Considering they just cancelled a huge singleplayer project (Dead Sun was still in development in 2012), I wouldn't expect anything on the singleplayer LoK front for years, if not longer. And when it does come, I'm sure it'll just be Assasins' Creed: The Kainening.

 

[Rahdulan]

Considering they just cancelled a huge singleplayer project (Dead Sun was still in development in 2012), I wouldn't expect anything on the singleplayer LoK front for years, if not longer. And when it does come, I'm sure it'll just be Assasins' Creed: The Kainening.

I think the cancellation of the singleplayer title to focus on multiplayer is such a baffling decision that I still can't fully comprehend. Was Dead Sun really that bad Square-Enix genuinely felt it was better off cancelled? Did Square-Enix have no faith in LoK overall because they obviously wouldn't be continuing the same, now 10 years old, story from the original games? Or is it just typical "let's focus on wideer audience and our graphs say multiplayer is popular!" kind of logic behind this?

I mean, Legacy of Kain of all things.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Considering they just cancelled a huge singleplayer project (Dead Sun was still in development in 2012), I wouldn't expect anything on the singleplayer LoK front for years, if not longer. And when it does come, I'm sure it'll just be Assasins' Creed: The Kainening.

I think the cancellation of the singleplayer title to focus on multiplayer is such a baffling decision that I still can't fully comprehend. Was Dead Sun really that bad Square-Enix genuinely felt it was better off cancelled? Did Square-Enix have no faith in LoK overall because they obviously wouldn't be continuing the same, now 10 years old, story from the original games? Or is it just typical "let's focus on wideer audience and our graphs say multiplayer is popular!" kind of logic behind this?

I mean, Legacy of Kain of all things.

Most likely just corporate greed. From what it seemed, Dead Sun didn't really seem like it was clear to turn out BAD. At least it looked like it might have something going on for it, unlike this multiplayer abortion.

 

[Zeriel]

Have to keep in mind Square Enix these days is the company that didn't consider the blockbuster 3-5 million copies sold (I can't remember which) Tomb Raider game a "financial success", so while the new Legacy of Kain game might have done well by general AAA standards, it sounds like they are only interested in massive kickbacks. They're idiots, but idiots who only care about money make more sense than just plain idiots, and are much less baffling.

Especially since it was supposedly cancelled over "sales predictions", which is probably another way of saying "it's sort of a niche title given there hasn't been one out in about 10 years, we'd only sell a piddling 2 million copies, let's just cancel this garbage and not waste any marketing $ on it, recycle the MP element as some F2P throwaway title we can use to recoup the costs, and call it a day".

 

[Captain Crusade]

Pcgamesn has done a hands on just now. For what it is, it is not as horribad as one would expect. However it's a big pay 2 win money grab apparently, as you need to pay to purchase or rent new abilities for humans and vampires.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/nosgoth-hands-death-better-above

Humans and vampires, classic enemies. Nosgoth sees both races duking it out in ruined, burning arenas filled with crumbling homes and twisting, turning alleys. The humans are ranged warriors with tricks up their sleeves. The Hunter has a rapid firing crossbow and can launch special ammo that explodes or ties vampires up, the Scout is an archer who can pepper the battlefield with enough arrows to blot out the moon and the alchemist fires alchemical grenades out of a big gun and sets fire to everything. They can sprint away from foes, dodge out of the way of attacks and have all manner of tools to get out of tricky situations.

The vampires, on the other hand, are closers. Melee combatants that excel in getting up close to an enemy and slicing them to pieces. The Reaver can launch himself at foes from a great distance, ripping them to shred when he pounces on them, the Tyrant is a behemoth who can make his flesh burn and use his great strength to create shockwaves and the Sentinel is a horrifying, deformed creature who strikes from the skies.

Each team gets a shot at playing both factions in every battle, which I confess I wasn’t a fan of at the start. The vampires are more immediately compelling, and I felt like I was being forced to play a faction I wasn’t interested in during every fight when I switched over to the humans. But I’ve come around. Both sides are very different, and not just because of their diverse abilities.

Vampires are predators. They can climb up the sides of buildings, leap across gaps and - in the case of the Sentinel - float across the battlefield. They stalk their prey and attempt to close gaps fast before escaping into the darkness. These monstrous beasts feel powerful, but can still be easily dispatched by humans working together.

Even though they aren’t, humans feel more vulnerable. They don’t have preternatural powers and are at their best when taking enemies out from a distance. As unlikely as it sounds, the human experience is not all that far removed from survival horror. Hunted by terrifying monsters, they have to stick together, constantly keeping an eye out for an inhuman shape lurking in the shadows or hovering above them.

The abilities of both factions can be swapped out for new, thematically appropriate powers bought in the shop - either outright, for a ton of gold, or rented for seven days - and though they are initially flashy things that are just fun to mess around with, they eventually tie into clever tactics.

It all started to make sense for me during one battle where, playing as vampires, my team was getting decimated. We weren’t sticking together, leaping on the humans as one, and when I flew over a burning courtyard and saw all four humans, I was all alone.

 

[Darth Roxor]

fuck this game

 

[Borelli]

I don't mind multiplayer combat games but using Legacy of Kain for this is just
We have the same situation as Thiaf. If the old guys won't like it because it rapes the franchise and new guys don't even know the series then what is the point of using a well known name?

Still, if i treat it as a harmless spinoff i might have some fu

And there’s the microtransaction guff: new abilities and weapons all need to be purchased, meaning that the wealthiest players have access to the best toys

nope.