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Review NWN Review

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Saint_Proverbius, Nov 1, 2002.

  1. Saint_Proverbius Arcane Patron

    Saint_Proverbius
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    Tags: BioWare; Neverwinter Nights

    Saint Proverbius's NWN uncut and scary review, brutal honesty at it's peak. Nothing says fun like telling it as it is about one of the most overrated and overhyped games ever made.
     
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  2. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    NWN r teh suk

    Good review.
    The game IS overhyped and overestimated.
     
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  3. Mistress Liturgist

    Mistress
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    Now that sounds more like the game I played. The other reviews I have read left me wondering if I had played the same game.
     
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  4. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    You should include the list of items that are wrong like the AC bug, or the fact that you can push people through doors due to bad clipping... the list is large and would make a nice finish...

    Nice work, good to see someone is not as blind as everyone else.

    Just remember, this game has gotten MANY awards... does make you wonder what the real deal is.
     
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  5. Gimp Mask Liturgist

    Gimp Mask
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    :salute:
     
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  6. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Oh well you can't win them all.

    You are in the minority but nothing wrong with that.

    I feel the editor was worth the money alone. I think I enjoy creating worlds for others more then playing the original game.
     
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  7. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    um ok

    Obviously you didn't see the multitude of info reguarding that NWN was geared to be a mp game and allow people to create custom adventures for people to play thru/dm
    Hense the tile based system for easier modual creation.

    Nor have you seen the multitude of content created that add tons of RP possibility such as emote wands that allow you to do dice rolls, skill checks, dance, drink ect ect, nor have you tried any of the Persistant Worlds that are in the making, some of which are just dripping with atmosphere that helps create a good RP environment.

    I agree the sp was lackluster but as this wasn't the aim with NWN to begin with imo it's understandable.

    Try reviewing ALL components of a game before you review it next time.
     
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  8. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    read

    If you are disappointed in the game , action would help and not in the form of around about reviews and some ideas for it. What I mean is that the game does have a lot to asked of it, but when someone takes too much time (5 years) and make up their mind and produce, you set yourself up for a let down to the game players and yourself. Too much hype of time being the measure of ability and not the effort. That is the problem that got Bioware into this. They got the good idea and made the time of 5 years act as if the game was 5 times as good as a game of 1 man year. A lot of put too much stock in measure is effort and not ability.
     
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  9. Saint_Proverbius Arcane Patron

    Saint_Proverbius
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    Re: um ok

    Actually, I did. Read the last part of the review where I said I'm basing the review on what the game ships with and not third party constructs.

    I hate to say this, but it doesn't help NWN's case to say that what the game ships with sucks, so make your own good stuff or download someone else's. The fact of the matter is that BioWare was paid to make the content that the game ships with, so that's what I reviewed.

    I'm not a big believer of saying, "Hey, you can download mods for [game], so [game] gets a 98%" The developers themselves are the ones that are accountable based on what they put in the game.
     
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  10. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Great review. I agree with most of your findings. I saved this "gem" until I could find the time to really get into it, expecting more 100 hours of gameplay you better have a clear schedule ahead of you. =)

    I have only finished act1 but I am extremely disappointed with the game so far. I love the BG series and thought highly of Bioware. BUT, this product is not fulfilling, and I hope Bioware realize their mistake and skip the path they are on now.

    An engine based on tile graphics is bad... The idea is bad from the beginning. Sure you made a try, now get back to 2D or do a fantastic singleplayer based 3D RPG game without tiles.

    Also, the story is not very exciting - at least not yet. The witting is average at best, and the possibilities to roleplay is very limited. Also, the D&D rule set is NOT made for computer games. Why does all developers keep going back to those pen&paper rules? I don't get it. Anyhow, if you need the D&D license to sell more copies then at lest make the adjustments required to make the game fun. NWN would have been better off with turns of 3 seconds instead of 6. It would make the fighting more fun to watch with more tempo. There are tons of other ways to change the D&D rules to better fit a computer game, but that would take up to much space on this server. ;-)

    Bioware! Please give us something as good as Baldurs Gate2.

    I am happy to find a review that finally realize that NWN is over hyped and NOT a good singleplayer game. Thanks for the good review.

    /Nicholas
     
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  11. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Relation to other CRPGs

    "If you look at other CRPGs that have taken that long, you can see the quality of the extra time in them"

    Which other CRPGs do you think of? Sure, NWN has a lot of weaknesses especially in Single-Player, but has a lot of advantages too (Multiplayer, DM-Client, custom Scripts, etc.).

    The only CRPG that is comparable by complexity is Morrowwind IMHO, and that one had a LOT of weaknesses too.

    Even in Fallout and Arcanum combat had the most impact on gameplay, though not as MUCH as in NWN.

    NWN is still a great CRPG, IMHO. Just see it relative to what can be done today.

    Gamers will always find things they wanted in a game, but it didnt make it in :)
    As for the hype: Yea, it is much. Almost for every major game project.
    I am still hyping for Duke Nukem Forever, hehe *G* ;-)
     
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  12. chrisbeddoes Erudite

    chrisbeddoes
    Joined:
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    Yes .


    Like Dungeon Siege.

    Its really hard to find a review that you can trust these days.
     
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  13. Gimp Mask Liturgist

    Gimp Mask
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    Re: um ok

    :salute:
     
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  14. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    I understand your point but I think..

    I think you're missing the point on the whole.. NWN was geared towards custom content to begin with NOT single player.

    You obviously went into it expecting Fallout or some other dated infinity /special engined game. Or maybe you're just angry that bioware dumped interplay as their publisher. I dunno.

    But you pretty much state you didn't bother to try any of the PW's out there, yet loudly state the game has no role play value to it, which you're just plain wrong about. thats what annoyed me.
     
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  15. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Lasse

    um I dunno, maybe roleplaying? Isn't roleplaying the point of an rpg to begin with?
     
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  16. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Excellent review

    I hate to say it, and I very much enjoyed the BG series of games, but NWN is a bad game. It's just boring. The combat is boring, the npc interaction is mindless and I was frankly stunned at the state of the game after so long in development.
     
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  17. Gimp Mask Liturgist

    Gimp Mask
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    Re: I understand your point but I think..

    :salute:
     
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  18. Saint_Proverbius Arcane Patron

    Saint_Proverbius
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    Re: I understand your point but I think..

    No, actually, I'm not. BioWare did a lot of hyping of the single player game. They talked about how open ended it would be. They made comparasons to Fallout when they said they'd focus on the role of you as a single character in the campaign.

    And honestly, if that was their pitch for the title, "AD&D CONSTRUCTION KIT", then they should have included a bunch of little modules instead of trying to make a campaign out of the engine which clearly can't handle such a thing.

    I half way expected Fallout because they were pitching the game as being like Fallout. Go read through the BioWare interviews on RPG Vault. You'll see the BioWare chaps did quite a bit of "Fallout" name dropping.

    Scroll down a bit, read the news item about Interplay if you think I have any bias for them.

    Okay, here's a bit of fun. If they intended the game to be strictly for MP on little player made worlds... Why did they add a speech skill? Speech skills don't work in multiplayer! There's no skill in a multiplayer game that's going to talk a player in to doing what you want just because you have a 13 in it and he has a lower skill level.

    "Say, man, let me have that sword you have."

    "No way, dude."

    "I have a Speech skill of 13."

    "Oh, my bad. Here's the sword."

    Mmmmm.. Yeah.
     
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  19. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Bioware creating new "Witchwork" module series...

    I agree, the OC was fairly rough around the edges and came off feeling like a bit of an afterthought. That said, BioWare's announced that they're working on a NWN module series that is supposed to be much more roleplay-focused and geared towards hardcore fans like us. Reports from the beta testers seem to be really favorable so far, even from some of the long-time grouches on the Bioboards. It sounds like the first module will probably get released sometime this month. When it comes out, hopefully RPG Codex will review it as well (and hopefully we'll all have our faith in NWN / BioWare restored a little.
     
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  20. Ap_Jolly Liturgist

    Ap_Jolly
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    Fallout 1 can be finished without combat. It's a fact.
     
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  21. Ap_Jolly Liturgist

    Ap_Jolly
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    What I consider to be an example of a good roleplaying in CRPGs is not the kind of RP you (might) see in a genuine, live role-playing session (this is ultimately impossible, as no one can make you a good actor or immerse you if you just don't have what it takes), but a way to finish the game with different (that is, non-intersecting, yet interactive enough to let you mix and match) ways, with all of them being the result of utilizing the game design (as opposed to cheats and exploits) to finish the game.

    However, that does not mean that, for example, that every game MUST have diplomat-warrior-thief character types. Just give me at least two truly different ways to complete the game, and I will consider it a good CRPG. The more ways the better, though, as long as they are really different.
     
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  22. Ibbz Augur

    Ibbz
    Joined:
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    410
    certainly generated lots of controversy, thats for sure :D
     
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  23. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    You're right, but you've missed the point...

    Ok, so I've just reached Act III and tried to complete every quest so far, so I think I can now comment on this...

    Graphics?
    Dungeon Siege is sooo pretty compared to NWN, but that's all it is... there's no substance to it. The engine for NWN is far better than the Seige Editor, most likely becuase of the tiled use of graphics in NWN. Also NWN allows for far more character actions the DS (i.e. spells, thievery, etc) and can be expanded on. So you take the good with the bad.

    Gameplay/Story?

    NWN is a story RPG in the grand sense. DnD was always meant to be played as a heroic campaign and you and your party being the hero(s). There's always an evil bad guy (i.e. foozle) and your job is to go take him out, be it for good, money, etc. (At least in the circles I play in.) Going around and killing random people and just generally running amok pretty much ruined the game and destroyed any sense of story the DM was trying to convey. Also, how many DnD campaigns have you ever played "twice". There's no going back once you've done it. Same here.

    Now if you've ever played a module in DND (not little story idea campaigns, but the actual modules), then you know they are very linear. Anybody that goes too outside the box, and the modules over. Done with. It's up to the DM to see if he can recover, but in most cases, the adventure is over. In fact I remember one module where one of the players was upset that item A wasn't in box B. He was one of these guys that memorized every module and would throw a fit if you changed stuff around. He would always make a beeline to the best item, always avoid the trap in Room AA, (becuase "he" knew where it was, not his character) and pretty much ruining it for everyone else.

    In NWN, there is no DM to put you back on track when you start doing things you shouldn't. Therefore there is no context to allow for this within the game. (DM Mode/MP changes all this, but we're focussing on the SP here.) Given the vast scope of what the game "does" allow you to do, you have to allow for the fact that it needs to point you in the general direction of the story, however forceful that needs to be. If you don't like the story, stop playing. You can't change it, and even if you could, what would it be changed to? Bioware put in a lot of content (what at least 20-30 main and sub quests in each chapter?) which your character can choose to do or not. Some of it is aimed for specific character classes so it's impossible to do the Wizards Quest in Act 1 unless you're a Wizard. Also, exploring the dialogue trees and gaining insight to Aribeths dilema on recent events and how she deals with it is well thought out.

    Ok I've written a lot and if you're still with me, cool.

    So to wrap it up:

    Yes, it's total Monty Haul.
    Yes, there are alot of lameoids who want the head of something or other.
    Yes, Good vs Evil/Chaotic vs Lawfull could have been much better implemented.
    Yes, the story/dialogue is "fixed", but then it wouldn't be a module.

    However, if you're looking for a good roleplaying experiencing with a grand scope of a story and actual character development and change, you'll enjoy playing this game.
    In MP mode with a DM to address the points above, and new modules/adventures to romp around in, it completely changes the game and is almost transcendental in it's RPG fun factor.

    - Evil Homer
     
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  24. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    Deus Ex was like this. And the gameplay was excellent because of it.

    - Evil Homer
     
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  25. Anonymous Guest

    Anonymous
    I almost have to disagree with you here... combat was at every turn, and when the big head mutant guy and all his mutant buddies are pouncing on you, I don't think you can simply just "run away". Though I will admit it was far easier to avoid combat, or at least keep it minimal. Still. I did enjoy shooting those rats... :)

    - Evil Homer
     
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