Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by aweigh, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    7,354
    She's neither an atheist nor an antitheist, so no idea what you mean. Unless you mean Gann, who is a man. He might be called an antitheist, sure, but the two aren't as interchangeable as you make them out to be, especially in the context of the game.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Mikeal Learned

    Mikeal
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    Everybody know that true bae is Qara.

    Before Obsidian cut some stuff her and Mephasm heritage was important plot point, that could change events in Jerro's hideout.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    ^ Top  
  3. Micormic Augur

    Micormic
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    885


    Never played numabumba, never played D OS



    POE has better dialogue from what I remember, I remember it being bland not fucking annoying(I quit that game like 3-4 hours in so if it got worse after that I don't know).
     
    ^ Top  
  4. roll-a-die Prophet

    roll-a-die
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,053
    It got much much worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,234
    Before Obsidian cut stuff, Neeshka was a romance option. That's why she is so bitchy towards Shandra and Elanee at the beginning when they joined the party.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,378
    Yeah I mixed em up given that I've never played the game before.

    As for the latter bit, yes I know they aren't interchangeable, but when it often comes to many atheists, typically the very outspoken, they do the Hitchens routine of saying they'd oppose God if tangible evidence of conclusively proved His existence.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Terelyn Literate

    Terelyn
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    That's a very specific scenario. From what i can remember, it has only been rehashed in PoE. It's not a well-known formula in CRPGs.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Dux Savant

    Dux
    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Sweden
    Much has been said about the NWN 2 OC already and I also concur that it is the digital manifestation of syphillis.

    RANT INCOMING GET YOUR HEAD DOWN!!

    I've been trying to get into MotB recently and I have to say that even though the writing and whatnot is much better than the OC, it still reeks of Obsidian's flaws, in my opinion. The whole autistic influence system with the companions, for example, and conveyor belt of awkward conversations you have with various cardboard cutouts posing as characters. It's a jarring experience where the level of writing seems to go up and down like a rollercoaster. It's a sad theme for Obsidian - a company that has unrightfully garnered a reputation as being somehow superior to their contemporaries. They're sometimes better - as was proven in the case of New Vegas - but they never could leave that bubble of theirs. What I mean is that their overrall style is so goddamn hamfisted - except for New Vegas, to a degree. I think that was because it was a Fallout game. The DLCs showed worrying signs, though.

    I'll never understand any of it, honestly. There aren't many good modern CRPGs out there and I really try to appreciate MotB but even though it's the best fantasy type game Obsidian has made, it still has that black mark of their making. It permeates nearly every conversation and quest like an oppressive miasma. It leads to much frustration, simply because the narrative keeps smacking me over the head and shouting in my ear. I tell you, subtlety is a very fine art and it's one that is often misinterpreted; that includes Obsidian. It's a shame because if anyone could possibly bring about a real positive change in the CRPG climate, it would have been them. However, they're just too rigid and stubborn in the way they do things, unfortunately. The NWN 2 OC is a piece of shit. It's linear and it's juvenile. Fan-fiction tier. MotB is also quite linear but it tries to be more adult, more complex. Yet, I've never really felt like I had the opportunity to truly digest it simply because Obsidian often have this ADHD mentality in their games. I mean, just let me breathe and relax for a minute. You don't need to dump information on me all the time. You don't need to beat me over the head with really obvious plot points. You don't need to make companions into passive aggressive attention whores that wear you down with exposition. You don't need to have overly dramatic or morose try-hard villains that feel they belong in anime. The plot is supposed to be inbedded in the bread of the game. It's supposed to reveal itself naturally and gradually the further you go: a seamless experience, where your own decisions affect your destination - to a degree. But, it's easy to feel like a guest in an Obsidian game, riding shotgun. I guess that's my personal point.

    I know a lot people love the sort of stuff Obsidian does but it rubs me the wrong way, for some reason. That being said MotB is still planets apart in terms of quality from the Nuremberg trial that is the OC.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • retadred retadred x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Harry Easter Learned

    Harry Easter
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    I found the OC quite fun. Of course it has a lot of the clichés of the FR, but the Realms are all about clichés and adventuring. And the story was an adventure, in which a lot of stuff happened. You can say what you want, but at least it never became boring (well, except the Orc-Caves. I forget that they exist), the NPC were strong archetypes and we had some twists along the way.

    There was so much content in this game, it was baffling. But we didn't need that ending. It's lucky that they put out MoTB right after the maingame.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 6
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 3
    ^ Top  
  10. SlumLord Unwanted Edgy

    Unwanted
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Thirdworldia
    Dux
    Obsidian only comes off as good -- and is grudgingly worshiped by grognars -- because their competition is steaming garbage. Look how low the bar is when a company that's been open for 15+ years keeps pumping out products which are objectively worse and less fun than the properties they're supposed to be based on (and which came out 20+ fucking years ago).

    None of the CRPG houses of today (Obsidian, Inexile, Larian, Bethesda) have managed to put together a coherent product with PS:T's narrative depth, ToEE's combat system, Fallout's atmosphere, Mount & Blade's sense of scale, and VtM:Bloodline's reactivity, while wrapping it together into a seamless package that won't melt your PC and have it sink through the Earth before emerging in Beijing. You can break down any game's systems with objectively quantifiable metrics, and it's pitiable that today's products by self-anointed 'oldskool devs' aren't nearly as fun and immersive as their older works. Nor is their inability to construct a good game excusable in any way, especially consider that they have godlike tools at their disposal which boost productivity by orders of magnitude.

    Rome wasn't built in a day, but after it died the Holy Roman Empire at least tried to LARP into the succession slot while still respecting the source material, which is more than can be said for today's CRPGs that end up as hollowborn abomination made deformed by their creators' lack of awareness and endless pandering.

    Fuck this gay Earth for making me so jaded and unable to enjoy vidya.

    :flamesaw:
     
    • Rage Rage x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Fabulously Optimistic Fabulously Optimistic x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Harry Easter Learned

    Harry Easter
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Therethere, sweetie *hugh*.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Terelyn Literate

    Terelyn
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    I don't understand it either... If it feels like a chore to you, play Bethesda games instead. :roll:
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    75,182
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Broke: Today's Obsidian is a radical departure from the studio that made Mask of the Betrayer

    Woke: Today's Obsidian is the logical evolution of the studio that made Mask of the Betrayer
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Balanced Balanced x 2
    • nice nice x 1
    • Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Terelyn Literate

    Terelyn
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    The first has more truth to it. MotB is one of their best, along with KotOR 2.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Terelyn Literate

    Terelyn
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    It's their style. What's your problem with the companion influence system?

    They are/were better, than many of their contemporaries. Even if you didn't like PoE, we shouldn't diminish their past merits because of their recent titles.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. SlumLord Unwanted Edgy

    Unwanted
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Thirdworldia
    I agree with you. I think the influence system Obsidian makes use of is a fun game mechanic (I like it - sue me). The problem people have with companions isn't the mechanics themselves, it's the writing (which, to be fair, was quite good in MotB).

    Yes, because their contemporaries are garbage. Don't compare Obsidian to Inexile - compare it to the Black Isle era which gave us Fallout and Arcanum. They come painfully short of that illustrious pedigree.

    See, this is exactly why we keep getting shittier and shittier games from them - because no one keeps them accountable. I hope PoE2's poor sales will serve as a kick to the nuts, and wake them up. A pity it took this long.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Terelyn Literate

    Terelyn
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    OC had problems with the influence system, but MotB doesn't, IMO.
    Dux seems to be mostly complaining about the short campaign's constricted and fairly linear narrative. I didn't feel that the main narrative was overbearing, because it's suppose to be it's main appeal, as there's little side content.


    Yea, they could improve in a lot of areas, but i still love most of their games. Granted, their recent titles were a bit of a letdowns for me. I hope they will pull themself together.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    13,218
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    In MotB I was never able to win the barbarian "ice water challenge" in town. What was it that you gained if you did?
     
    • Bro, do you even lift? Bro, do you even lift? x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. VentilatorOfDoom RPG Codex Staff

    VentilatorOfDoom
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    8,101
    Location:
    Deutschland
    It's pretty much not doable legit unless you're a Barbarian yourself. You can have Gann cast Energy Immunity: Cold on you and time it so that the spell hits you when you're in the tub, then you're not taking damage. The rewards is some cold resistance ring or something, the rewards for the STR challenge is a STR belt +10, fighting challenge you get Sergey's sword. Doing all challenges successfully you'll get a feat that makes barbarian rage better iirc.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Nalenth Novice

    Nalenth
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Hungary
    You have described nearly every story-heavy CRPGs, not just Obsidian ones. Many people have this "problem" with PS:T, despite being one of the best in its genre thanks to its narrative depth.

    New Vegas is an open-world RPG, maybe that's why.

    IMO, this is much more pronounced in JRPGs.

    Maybe their games are not for you? There are many RPGs with more open-ended experience, even newer ones. I recommend playing Underrail, it's excellent.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Dux Savant

    Dux
    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Sweden
    You're right, of course. I just tend to give Obsidian a hard time because I'm bit of an asshole.

    However, one opinion I'll always stand by - as far as their writing is concerned - is the unsettling compulsion to turn the protagonist into a walking plot device. You either have a silver shard in your chest, or you're a metaphysical wound in the Force (wut?) or you're a Spirit Eater, for some reason. It makes it easier to guide or force the narrative, I guess, but it's still the easy way out for writers. It borders on being lazy. To create a genuine blank slate of a character and have it form properly within the game world itself is tougher to pull off, but far more rewarding. As a character you are what do or don't do: that is the true mark of a great RPG. Not what you are made into for whatever arbitrary reason the writer has cooked up. This is not Obsidian's sole fault, however. It's a widespread issue in RPGs.

    As for Underrail, played it and enjoyed it.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Nalenth Novice

    Nalenth
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Hungary
    Personally, i don't have a problem with that. I don't see it as an issue, rather an opportunity. Obsidian did some interesting twists to the standard "Chosen One" trope.
    It can be used badly, of course. Still, it isn't the biggest issue in Skyrim for example. (It has bigger problems.)
    I like the ones where you play as a truly blank slate character, too. Yea, it's tougher to pull off.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)