Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

I thought DA:O level scaling was pretty poorly done actually. It was counter intuitive from what I expected. Like I expected werewolves to tear me a new one, but they were just average difficulty.

That wasn't really a level scaling problem. The problem wasn't that the werewolves were scaled, it's that they were just designed to be too weak in the first place.

 

[tuluse]

I thought DA:O level scaling was pretty poorly done actually. It was counter intuitive from what I expected. Like I expected werewolves to tear me a new one, but they were just average difficulty.

That wasn't really a level scaling problem. The problem wasn't that the werewolves were scaled, it's that they were just designed to be too weak in the first place.

Fair enough.

My real problem was with encounter design. Why is Bioware so bad at this since BG2?

 

[Lord Andre]

DA:O was a piece of shit. If it couldn't resist freeze-shatter combo, then it was a trash mob no matter it's level or equipment.

Leaving, let's see, 2 dragons and 6 revenants from Juggernaut Armor quest. Wow, 8 battles that required tactics in the whole game.

Thus the phrase: DA:O was a piece of shit.

 

[Infinitron]

My real problem was with encounter design. Why is Bioware so bad at this since BG2?

When the hardcore audience on your company forums is full of people saying "I PLAY FOR THE ROMANCE! I PLAY FOR THE STORY!" and obsessing over those topics, suddenly encounter design doesn't seem like a worthwhile effort.

 

[tuluse]

DA:O was a piece of shit. If it couldn't resist freeze-shatter combo, then it was a trash mob no matter it's level or equipment.

Leaving, let's see, 2 dragons and 6 revenants from Juggernaut Armor quest. Wow, 8 battles that required tactics in the whole game.

Thus the phrase: DA:O was a piece of shit.

I didn't read anything about the game and am apparently a masochist because I played with 2 sword and shield guys for most of the game.

This made things quite a bit harder let me tell you.

 

[Lord Andre]

DA:O was a piece of shit. If it couldn't resist freeze-shatter combo, then it was a trash mob no matter it's level or equipment.

Leaving, let's see, 2 dragons and 6 revenants from Juggernaut Armor quest. Wow, 8 battles that required tactics in the whole game.

Thus the phrase: DA:O was a piece of shit.

I didn't read anything about the game and am apparently a masochist because I played with 2 sword and shield guys for most of the game.

This made things quite a bit harder let me tell you.

You were a fighter and you only kept Allistair in the party ? Why would you do that ?

 

[tuluse]

I didn't only keep him, but I used him for a while. I'm not really sure why. Part of it was the order I did things in. Also I fucking hated Morrigan and refused to use her if at all possible.

 

[Roguey]

Hey Grunker
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/413184691357642309

Probably a grid with icons.

You ready to concede those posts?

When the hardcore audience on your company forums is full of people saying "I PLAY FOR THE ROMANCE! I PLAY FOR THE STORY!" and obsessing over those topics, suddenly encounter design doesn't seem like a worthwhile effort.

DA:O was a legitimate attempt at making a tactical game (just ask Patrick Weekes), they just failed at it for the most part. Most of DA:O's level designers were either new hires or people who joined the company starting with KOTOR.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey Yeah, I know.

 

[Grunker]

Roguey: Yep, more than happy to. Thank God. That still doesn't explain much, though. So he says "BG inventory management is tedious, ours is totally different" and then he follows up with "our inventory is a classic grid with icons."

I'm playing Icewind Dale right now by the way, and fuck you have to have a short attention-span to call that inventory management tedious...

 

[Lord Andre]

I didn't only keep him, but I used him for a while. I'm not really sure why. Part of it was the order I did things in. Also I fucking hated Morrigan and refused to use her if at all possible.

That's kinda' funny because if you had chosen a rogue, you would have had a "stun and backstab" combo with unrivaled DPS. Fighters ironically had the lowest DPS in the game.

Anyway, for a BG2 clone it sucked balls, but the young consoletard fags that had never played an RPG before went all GOTY. Disgusting really.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey: Yep, more than happy to. Thank God. That still doesn't explain much, though. So he says "BG inventory management is tedious, ours is totally different" and then he follows up with "our inventory is a classic grid with icons."

I'm playing Icewind Dale right now by the way, and fuck you have to have a short attention-span to call that inventory management tedious...

Because it isn't that different. Who said it was? It's just like IE, except you can't access your inventory in combat (incline), and you have a stash in town you can send items to one-way (decline only for realismfags)

And the "equipment belt" is just like the weapon sets you can switch between in IWD.

 

[Roguey]

Fighters ironically had the lowest DPS in the game.

That's not ironic. No one expects a tank or a D&D fighter to be anywhere near the best damage dealer.

Anyway, for a BG2 clone it sucked balls, but the young consoletard fags that had never played an RPG before went all GOTY. Disgusting really.

It's an improvement on kotor though, the opinions of nostalgia-blinded Ukranians and Thais aside.

 

[Grunker]

Roguey: Yep, more than happy to. Thank God. That still doesn't explain much, though. So he says "BG inventory management is tedious, ours is totally different" and then he follows up with "our inventory is a classic grid with icons."

I'm playing Icewind Dale right now by the way, and fuck you have to have a short attention-span to call that inventory management tedious...

Because it isn't that different. Who said it was? It's just like IE, except you can't access your inventory in combat (incline), and you have a stash in town you can send items to one-way (decline only for realismfags)

And the "equipment belt" is just like the weapon sets you can switch between in IWD.

You're not explaining how this is less tedious than IE except a few tweaks. But hey, fuck this. If they're doing an almost 1:1 of an almost perfect inventory system, who am I to argue minor details.

 

[Lord Andre]

So, those of us that would like our rpgs to have a little bit of internal consistency are now "realism fags" ? Please.

This reminds me of how everyone in BG2 could teleport except the player.

C O N S I S T E N C Y - it's not a feature, it's a fucking core element. Realism fag, out.

 

[Grunker]

So, those of us that would like our rpgs to have a little bit of internal consistency are now "realism fags" ? Please.

This reminds me of how everyone in BG2 could teleport except the player.

C O N S I S T E N C Y - it's not a feature, it's a fucking core element. Realism fag, out.

You're carrying 16 plate mails in your inventory and you're worried that you can send stuff to the stash? Wow.

The stash is only decline in-so-far that it makes me never have to leave anything behind, but that element was only ever relevant in early levels in the IE games anyway, unfortunately.

 

[Arkeus]

No, it didn't. Each area of DA:O was meant for a different level range. Scaling took place within those ranges, but stopped outside of it.

You got raped if you went to an area above your range. You wiped the floor in areas below your range.

That REALLY suprise me, as i remember the 4 subquests (mage tower/dwarves/elves/ashes) to all be level 5-20, in fact they were easier at leavel 5 then at level 15 or so.

 

[Lord Andre]

So, those of us that would like our rpgs to have a little bit of internal consistency are now "realism fags" ? Please.

This reminds me of how everyone in BG2 could teleport except the player.

C O N S I S T E N C Y - it's not a feature, it's a fucking core element. Realism fag, out.

You're carrying 16 plate mails in your inventory and you're worried that you can send stuff to the stash? Wow.

The stash is only decline in-so-far that it makes me never have to leave anything behind, but that element was only ever relevant in early levels in the IE games anyway, unfortunately.

So instead of reducing inventory to a believable level, the solution is to brake the shit entirely because of OCD assholes. Why don't we make a big red button. You click it and you win the game. Fuck the role playing it's not worth it

 

[Roguey]

almost perfect inventory system

 

[Grunker]

almost perfect inventory system

The flaws of the inventory system which you pointed out are non-existent or exaggerated wildly. It was near perfect. Easy to overview, easy to use, easy to move stuff, easy to tell stuff apart, and lots of slots.

 

[Grunker]

So, those of us that would like our rpgs to have a little bit of internal consistency are now "realism fags" ? Please.

This reminds me of how everyone in BG2 could teleport except the player.

C O N S I S T E N C Y - it's not a feature, it's a fucking core element. Realism fag, out.

You're carrying 16 plate mails in your inventory and you're worried that you can send stuff to the stash? Wow.

The stash is only decline in-so-far that it makes me never have to leave anything behind, but that element was only ever relevant in early levels in the IE games anyway, unfortunately.

So instead of reducing inventory to a believable level, the solution is to brake the shit entirely because of OCD assholes. Why don't we make a big red button. You click it and you win the game. Fuck the role playing it's not worth it

Your definition of role-playing varies a lot from mine. Suffice it to say that basic gameplay elements that improve my enjoyment does not ruin my fun with an RPG. I don't like the send-things-to-your-stash because I think it should be approached from the angle of making prioritization more important, but hell if I'm going to whine about such an insignificant thing.

 

[Roguey]

Something Awful and YCS disagree and so do I. And hell since I'm already on this topic

How about making stuff not stay put for long after you leave location? How about introducing constant funds sink, like consumables, that simply makes just travelling back and forth cost you more than you get from selling rusty crap in bulk? How about making items less resaleable, both due to degradation (as was already mentioned) and lack of demand?

Designers, Y U SO DUMB?

All of your ideas discourage picking up everything, which is contrary to what most players actually want to do (pick up everything and sell it). Josh Sawyer doesn't want to work contrary to human behavior; instead he wishes to accommodate it while preserving the feeling for which he's striving. This is called making a good game. Making a bad game would be slapping them and saying "No! Play this game my way or get out!"

 

[Infinitron]

If people spent less time CODEX RAGING, we might have convinced Josh to add a "limited stash" (or maybe even "no stash") option for the game's Expert Mode by now.

Of course, in the end there will be mods anyway.

 

[Lord Andre]

Something Awful and YCS disagree and so do I. And hell since I'm already on this topic

How about making stuff not stay put for long after you leave location? How about introducing constant funds sink, like consumables, that simply makes just travelling back and forth cost you more than you get from selling rusty crap in bulk? How about making items less resaleable, both due to degradation (as was already mentioned) and lack of demand?

Designers, Y U SO DUMB?

All of your ideas discourage picking up everything, which is contrary to what most players actually want to do (pick up everything and sell it). Josh Sawyer doesn't want to work contrary to human behavior; instead he wishes to accommodate it while preserving the feeling for which he's striving. This is called making a good game. Making a bad game would be slapping them and saying "No! Play this game my way or get out!"

He's dumbing the shit down, no matter what fancy words you use to describe it.

 

[Grunker]

most players actually want to do

This is called making a good game

Holy Jesus, what a delusion.

This is why we can't have nice things.