Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

yes, but not only strength, but that firearms can be fired on compact formation and with compact spread, with the rigid formations of arquebusiers/musketeers, which also requires training. Volley fire was used as a effective means of increasing the rate of fire to prevent free gaps to a approaching enemy. The reason massed arrow were 'more effective' for a while is that redrawing was faster for quite a while and at least longbows had longer range, but it required skill to account for droppoff and much str. Eventually gunfire killed plate armor for instance, because it was quite deadly to knights at close range anyway.

 

Guns also scared enemies, and had more penetration than crossbows when it comes to getting though plate armor.

 

They are not that many fantasy setting with guns, so they neatly side step that issue most of the time.

 

Rain?

 

Slow rate of fire of early firearms was in fact a their real weakness. Musketeers were fairly vulnerable to cavalry charges. They could only shot one volley at approaching cavalry, dealing some casualties to the enemy, but after that it would be a massacre. The reason why it didn't happen all the time is because you could nullify cavalry charge with pikemen. This is where Sawyer's reasoning coming in. What if your opponent has a way to quickly close the distance without cavalry? Flying or some other kind of agile creatures could render pikemen useless and that would make use of slow firing firearm a lot riskier endeavor that it was historically.

 

You guys are getting way to autistic about this. Sawyers explanation is fine

 

This is way too autistic too.

Fact = Bows are cool. So they stay. Which brings me to another point. I wonder if there's any sense at all in discussing this from the point of view of armies. This is Heroic Fantasy after all. Half a dozen large bands of adventurers/elite trained troops command much more of the spotlight than you'd expect from early modernity. Even if Muskets are cheaper and, therefore, much more common amongst soldiers, the fact that Bows are still useful in smaller scale engagements really matters. Hence why Saywer's explanation works. Sometimes you may want the rate of fire that muskets don't allow.

Sure, we can question that until the cows go home. But really, bows are cool. Crossbows are even cooler.

Wonder, however, if muskets will be useful more useful to less dedicated ranged fighters than bows.

 

This is very wrong. Cavalry didn't go out of fashion up until mid 20th century and was heavily employed even throughout WWII. Of course cavalry charges stopped being a thing much earlier, but not until mid-late 19th century, when mass use of rifles and unitary cartridges made effective range and rate of fire of firearms enough to literally mow down every cavalryman trying to approach the infantry line. But in the age of smooth bore muzzle loaders cavalry was constantly and massively involved in pretty much any military conflict of any significance. Armor penetration didn't matter much because late cavalry didn't use much if any anyway. Just read up on history of Napoleonic wars, like Battle of Borodino, half the battle revolved around cuirassier and dragoon attacks and counter attacks.

Pikemen along with assortment of polearms were also a mainstay of renaissance armies. It was a thankless job and you probably didn't hear much about their exploits, but they were necessary if you didn't fancy some slicing-dicing with a cavalry saber.

Questionable, as longbow could reliably wound and incapacitate a horse from much longer distance than musket and could fire off more than one volley before said horse is able to approach the bowman, but that's not my point at all. The question is whether Musket is of much use against "flying or some other kind of agile creature". Bad accuracy, bad range and bad fire rate don't leave it much chance.

 

Heavily employed means hundreds of thousands in cavalry. By 1 may 1943 Soviet Army had 26 cavalry divisions, with 238968 horsemen 226816 horses (according to source, p.237).

I didn't agree with you. You claimed that "Cavalry did go out of fashion by the times guns became widespread". This is just very, very wrong, and I explained why.

Wrong. "Pikemen along with assortment of polearms" (sometimes either or both) were used all the time and were very effective at their main task - dissuade cavalry from charging the front line. And they were very successful at that, which is why musketeers could proceed firing their weapons and not being dead, crushed under a cavalry charge. As I mentioned it was a thankless job because they had to stay idle for the most of any given battle waiting, which is also the reason you're not aware of their battle exploits. Nonetheless they were essential part of every army at that time (Renaissance).

Indeed it's very funny how you suddenly flipped your original claim of "bowmen are worse off against cavalry charges" into "bowmen are difficult to obtain and firearms are good enough anyway". You trying hard to make your arguments look better than they are, but don't worry. If "winning the argument" is what you after then victory is yours. I don't have time for piss contest anyway.

 

Shrek has back pedaled from "guns" to muskets. Guns were on the battlefield since the 1400s. Both guns and bows were deployed for centuries.

 

This is patently false. Guns were widespread by 1500. Cavalry lasted for a long time after that.

 

The possibility of Shrek being retarded suddenly increased by a fair ammount.

 

Magic, bithes!
- Cast mass haste on arquebus line.
- Cast spells to protect bows\guns from rain.
- Cast spells to protect gunners from cavalry charges.
- Cast encant weapon to increase arrows penetration.
For anything else:

I wonder, when you cast Bless, should you gless the gun or the bullets?

 

I'm just contributing information, I've got no opinion or knowledge about when/how/why.

Timeline:
http://inventors.about.com/od/militaryhistoryinventions/a/firearms_2.htm

 

New, german, article about th eternity gdc presentation INCLUDING PICS

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Proje...t-Eternity-Vorschau-aktueller-Status-1096782/

 

Done

 

So let me get this straight, bows are long range precision weapons that requires lots of training, a good body and a good eyesight, dont have much stopping power but have a good rate of fire, also silent. Muskets are powerful, slow, inacurate and have a painfully slow reload, also awful mobility, noisy and good in short to mid range.

 

Surely this will help much when it comes to creating content.

Someone tell me what Verwundungsgrad means please, I can't find a translation for it.

So I guess the top of the pack is divided into subsections?

Also from YCS: Wacky weapons.

 

According to the article Obsidian is currently doing voice-overs. No idea if placeholder or not.

 

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=3114.0

Emphasis mine.