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People News ObsidiLeaks: The Chris Avellone May of Rage Archive

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, May 10, 2018.

  1. Mr. Hiver Learned

    Mr. Hiver
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    You do know Chris Avellone is a man, right?

    Yup.

    Mhhhmm.

    Exactemundo.

    The rest of your arguments are even stupider attempts to proclaim something that doesnt have anything to do with reality.

    Pathetically dumb non-argument. And i guess that means you ascertain value of something by how much it sold, so... transformers are height of art. Gotcha.

    Your pattern is dumb, and none of the movies i mentioned focus on that at all.

    Yes, please do. Give us more examples of your taste for vomit inducing garbage.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  2. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    Holy shit, urban fantasy lit. especially the one that was formed in the Anita Blake mold has been a powerhouse for years, that shits not niche by a long shot

    But its been mainly read by woman, so why would you know anything about that, eh
     
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  3. Latro Arcane

    Latro
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    yeah, female fantasy lit is a pretty powerful genre atm, most of the book-signing filler at stores are urban fantasy women or sci fi dudes
     
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  4. Mr. Hiver Learned

    Mr. Hiver
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    What a pathetic bitch, MRY is already ignoring me. What a wuss.

    Very manly too.
     
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  5. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter

    vs.

    Hunger Games

    Twilight

    Not in the same league.

    I do recognize that there are exceptions - Shadowhunters probably fits the trope you're talking about, while still being immensely popular. But I'll counter with this - why aren't there male resistance fantasies of similar popularity?
     
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  6. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    I don't even have a clue wtf a resistance fantasy is, I don't speak SJW
     
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  7. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    Then you need to read my posts, instead of commenting on them.
     
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  8. Mr. Hiver Learned

    Mr. Hiver
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    Im loathe to think about it at all but i guess he is trying to argue Chris should write such.. urrgg... resistance female fantasy... like in marvelous examples he provided.
    It just... boggles the mind.
     
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  9. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    You seem to be missing the fact that Chris didn't write a male power fantasy in Planescape: Torment, he deconstructed one - specifically, the classic CRPG heroic tale. A similar treatment for the tropes in Twilight, Hunger Games, etc. would be... Interesting, to be sure, and even welcome, in light of the fact that these books have gotten popular enough for there to be deconstructions.
     
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  10. Mr. Hiver Learned

    Mr. Hiver
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    hehe... hehehe...

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Kyl Von Kull Arcane

    Kyl Von Kull
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    Off the top of my head, I think the clearest examples of female power fantasies in popular culture, as distinct from male power fantasies, would be something like Julianna Margulies in The Good Wife or, on the more cartoonish end of things, any Shonda Rhimes protagonist: Scandal, How To Get Away With Murder, etc... I don't think it's that different from a male power fantasy, but you end up with more emphasis on having your shit together and the ability to stay calm/composed.

    Maybe these characters would be just as poignant (or at least poignant to their particular audience) if they were gender swapped, but I doubt it.

    If you think it's social justice agenda-pushing when a piece of fiction is filled to the brim with strong, tough female characters in traditionally male roles (like all of the female warriors in Tyranny or Deadfire), I don't see how you could object to what MRY is saying.
     
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  12. ScrotumBroth Scrotal Projection Patron

    ScrotumBroth
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Updated my Twitter.
     
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  13. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Fixed
     
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  14. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

    Swampy_Merkin
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    The best sitcom of the last 10-15 years: 30 Rock. Liz Lemon (Tina Fey)...has exactly 1 boyfriend whom she eventually rids herself of (season 1 or 2?) because she recognizes he is limiting her.

    I mean just...come the fuck on....I'm not propitiating any kind of politics or world-view. It's just fucking obvious that men had the run of things for thousands of years, and that there's simply no reason to limit narrative because of gender at this point. Narrative is entirely up for grabs unless you're just determined to hang onto Male-Superiority because you're a rapist or whatever....
     
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  15. Neanderthal Arcane

    Neanderthal
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    Everybodies got to have a hobby, don't judge me.
     
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  16. Kyl Von Kull Arcane

    Kyl Von Kull
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    You need to watch more 30 Rock; there are multiple boyfriends.
     
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  17. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

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    I've watched the whole series (granted it's been a few years). There was the guy who went on to do the "i'm Chaos" commercials (was on SVU for awhile) - boyfriend #1. Then she was briefly with a guy who turned out to be her second cousin (or something like that)...didn't last more than one episode. There was always the thought that she and Alec Baldwin's character might be something....but they never did.

    What am I missing? Liz was always about her own comedic vision....pretty much just like Tina Fey. (Who has been married for a long time btw....to a really dorky looking dude).
     
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  18. Telengard Arcane

    Telengard
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    Gender swapping as people are discussing it here is something that a franchise story goes through when it's nearing its last legs in the zeitgeist, but to be sure it's actually one type of twist amongst many that the creatives have used since the beginning in order to keep making a buck on a fading franchise. Let's take but one example that we all know: Sherlock Holmes.

    First they do a literal translation of the stories to the screen. Then a few years later they do a remake. And then another remake. And another, but eventually the audiences just don't come to see the same old story retold, at least not in anywhere near the numbers like they used to. So, then the franchise starts doing the twists. Stop me if you've heard these before: Young Sherlock Holmes, Geriatric Sherlock Homes, Modern Day Sherlock Holmes, Watson as the real brains and Sherlock as an actor Sherlock Holmes, Gender Swap Sherlock Holmes or Gender Swap Watson (so you can add a romance), Gender Swap Sherlock Holmes and Watson, the Sherlock Holmes stories from the point of view of a tertiary character (such as Irene Adler), Time Traveling Sherlock Holmes, Steampunk Paranormal Sherlock Holmes. Any little twist to raise the interest of a public bored of the original.

    As you can see, these are all increasingly desperate maneuvers in order to keep the punters in the seats. And these twists can work to a degree, but none of them are ever as poignant as the original, since the original used its various elements together to build something that had meaning to people, and thus changing the elements discolors the intrinsic power of the original - like a puzzle with one piece missing but somebody shoves a piece from a different puzzle into the empty space. Still, if you're the owner holding onto the franchise in order to milk it, then money's money, quality be damned. Of course, even the twists will only hold the public's interest for so long, and then you'll have to put the franchise to rest at last, but hoping that the next generation will pick it back up again or old fans will get nostalgic in their old age, and then you can start the milking process all over from the beginning. See Hollywood since the days of silent film.

    As for the PST version, it would have nothing to do with the above, since in this alternate timeline of which we speak, the Nameless One would have been a character originally written as a standard crpg choice-of hero, and we would never have known him as an exclusively male character. Now, less individuality in character makes for a much less compelling character, but choice-of characters is exactly the sort of thing what keeps the crpg punters in their seats, and money's money.
     
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  19. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

    Swampy_Merkin
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    C. Auguste Dupin was the original Sherlock....Ahem created by Edgar Allen Poe. But that has nothing to do with anything regarding storytelling for the last 50 years or so.

    Pretty much any original story telling done since the dawn of gaming could be gender-reversed, or gender neutral, without anyone thinking twice except the professional MRAers and rapists that like to haunt the far corners of the Internet.

    (Ms Pac-Man earned more coin than her boyfriend).

    Tell me one good reason DOOM's protagonist couldn't have been a woman. Tell me one good reason why any GTA protagonist couldn't have been a woman (other than those git's lack of imagination). Tell me one good rpg story that necessarily had to star a man rather than a woman.

    Tradition is inherently shit unless there's some inherent reason to abide by it.
     
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  20. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    Doom is a male power fantasy, can't switch him with a woman, because then it would be something completely different according to some here (same as with PST), probably called Demon Breeding and a mobile game
     
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  21. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

    Swampy_Merkin
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    How in the fucking Hell is Doom an inherently male power fantasy? It's a space-marine blasting demons....that's it. That's all it is.
    Duke Nukem?...sure. No...I take that back. It could also be a total dyke power fantasy.

    So many slavs.....
     
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  22. Kyl Von Kull Arcane

    Kyl Von Kull
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    Oh? The Witcher games would be very different if they were about Geraldine of Rivia. Alpha Protocol would be very different if it was about Michaela Thorton (actually playing as a female spy might be really awesome, but in many ways it would not be the same story). No one is saying they would be worse with a gender swapped protagonist, but there would need to be significant changes.

    This is going to be true of any game that contains much social interaction, as long as it’s not set in some utopian society that has achieved true gender equality. Again, I can’t imagine why anyone would consider the idea that a character’s sex has major narrative significance to be at all controversial. It definitely falls under the category of trite but true.

    Gender doesn’t define a good character, but it certainly is going to have an impact on how a well fleshed out setting treats that character, to say nothing of how the audience relates to him/her. Let me put it this way: if a developer released an RPG that hardly reacted at all to your choice of gender, that game would be rightly pilloried for its lack of reactivity. Would it truly be realistic for NPCs to treat a character the same way regardless of their genitals?

    From where I’m standing, denying that these social distinctions exist is the creepy MRA style position. It’s like how when someone says, “I don’t see race,” you can bet that they will immediately follow that up by saying something racist.
     
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  23. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    You're so damn sexist :negative:


    And ableist as well. Just because they're blind doesn't mean they're racist.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  24. Kyl Von Kull Arcane

    Kyl Von Kull
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    New Vegas does have some gender based reactivity, though. It even can change the story—there’s a separate ending if your female PC sleeps with Benny and convinces him to ride off into the sunset with you. Your premise is incorrect.

    In Mass Effect most of your romance options are in fact limited by your choice of sex. Reactivity!

    Also, I don’t know why think I’m any kind of conservative, but if you assume everyone here is a culturally regressive national socialist you’re going to make an ass out of yourself. To make my point more clearly: just as racism is real, sexism is also real. Trying pretend these things don’t exist is ethically dubious, but more important for this discussion, it’s bad storytelling. Yes, most people consider their sex an important part of their identity. A good RPG should acknowledge that.

    Like it or not, when it comes to gender we have thousands of years of cultural baggage (this is true even if you believe gender is 100% socially constructed). You can’t just will that out of existence. There’s a reason it’s considered groundbreaking when an author like Ann Leckie creates a setting where gender has very little salience. You may think that’s the world we should be aiming for, but it’s rarely the world video games are trying to portray.
     
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  25. Swampy_Merkin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Shitposter

    Swampy_Merkin
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    1. I RPed my lady New Vegas wanderer as if she were MY lady.....so of course she couldn't fuck that skeezy Benny.

    2. I suppose my Cpt. Shep did the same....she's mine after all.

    3. I'm not sure if I responded to your post specifically as though I assumed you were a conservative....but I do assume most here are....so it stands to reason that I did. (Honestly, I don't remember that far back....tired....been drinking for hours).

    4. I'm not at all opposed to games specifying a gender role if it makes sense. I find that most games that assign a gender role (male) have no reason to do so. Specifically....TNO has no real reason at all to be male other than one asshole's fear that PS:T wouldn't sell if they couldn't put a male warrior-face on the cover.
     
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