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Onlive

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
I love how the invocation of 'DRM' is an instant third rail to a lot of young gamers today. Just another buzz word issue on the checklist of hipsters to be against automatically out of context.

While DRM diminishes the value something has it doesn't make it entirely off-limits. It depends on how much per month is required. If it's only $5 then, quite frankly, who gives a rat's ass about the fact that it's just the next step in DRM.

Anyone who instantly rules out spending money on something just by the mention of DRM is a moron -- it boils down to the relative cost versus the scope of the DRM. Of course, if the subscription is $20+ then screw it.
 

Xi

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Twilight Zone
I pay 55 a month for a cell phone. Now that's a fucking rip off. 20 ish a month for a high performance gaming system? Sure
 

Twinkle

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
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Lands of Entitlement
People who think that OnLive will never take off because of quality concerns forget about several important things like human stupidity and lack of standards. Who in their sane mind can choose 720p or even less compared to 1680x1050, 1900x1200 etc? Answer: millions of game console owners. I can see hordes of sheep gladly paying monthly fee for laggy shit with youtube graphics quality because of "U don't need $3000 rig to run it" or similar dumb excuse.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
They would pay. But they won't pay for what it is promised to be - because it is both financially and technologically impossible no matter the quality of the image. Is anyone retarded enough to believe that they will pay $20/mo to use some remote PC that is constantly being upgraded for hundreds of dollars, personnel that require $1000s sallaries and play games that are being developed using $millions all with a power of some crappy 4mbit broadband connection? Seems yes because they will pay for this as a new kind of server-script-based DRM though. Even on the Codex some people are stupid enough to believe sellout journalists who can't even mention a name of games they've played (not mentioning absolutely unimportant things like a resolution, quality of graphics, exact ping, frames per second, bitrate and the amount of channels in audio data - you know like true tech-magazines do) and all they can do is show photos of unplugged hoax-modem.

Also there are not enough facepalms to describe Xi, he seems to really believe this hoax, I was hoping he was trolling. Pathetic.
 

Armacalypse

Scholar
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
541
Metro said:
I love how the invocation of 'DRM' is an instant third rail to a lot of young gamers today. Just another buzz word issue on the checklist of hipsters to be against automatically out of context.
Yeah sorry, I'll try to stay away from any opinion that might seem "edgy" to you, just because I don't want to seem like a mainstream "edgy" type youngster or something. Also, I'm very hot (not wannabe cool).

Or, we use proper arguments.

While DRM diminishes the value something has it doesn't make it entirely off-limits. It depends on how much per month is required. If it's only $5 then, quite frankly, who gives a rat's ass about the fact that it's just the next step in DRM.

Anyone who instantly rules out spending money on something just by the mention of DRM is a moron -- it boils down to the relative cost versus the scope of the DRM. Of course, if the subscription is $20+ then screw it.
DRM has never made anything cheaper. Is it odd to complain about something that's only bad, not beneficial, to the consumer? I'm not saying OnLive is shit because it's the perfect DRM, I'm saying OnLive is shit that is only funded because it's the perfect DRM.

Edit:
Elzair said:
Honestly, it does not matter if the service is feasible from a technical standpoint. It is clearly doomed from a business standpoint.
This article brings the best point of all. The only thing OnLive offers its costumers is better graphics. Not many actually care that much about graphics. Even if they did, OnLive offers inferior picture quality.
 

Perfect Fool

Scholar
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
Location
Wessex
I find the correlation between the number of rapid posts the OP has made in this thread and his signature amusing.

Personally, I can't wait for faster than light speed internet gaming. Will it mean that there is some kind of time travel going on by the data, and I'll actually be playing a game today that runs on the server tomorrow? Perhaps they will instead be installing worm holes or dimensional rifts directly into the prospective client's home.

Still, it does sound a pretty good deal for $20 a month, unless some insidious and all powerful extra-dimensional entity steps through one of these rifts and into our reality and subsequently destroys or enslaves all of mankind. Sounds a pretty high price to pay for a few games if you ask me.
 

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
Patron
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
4,235
Location
BRO
Codex 2012
BRO I AM GOING TO BE AS SMART AS SKYWAY AND TOTALLY OWN EVERYONE IN THIS PIOST

facepalm.gif


mutant_facepalm.jpg


facepalm4.jpg


HAHAHAHHAQA YOU ONLIVE FAGGOTS LOOKS SO STUPID NOW!!11!!1
 

Metro

Arcane
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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Armacalypse said:
Metro said:
While DRM diminishes the value something has it doesn't make it entirely off-limits. It depends on how much per month is required. If it's only $5 then, quite frankly, who gives a rat's ass about the fact that it's just the next step in DRM.

Anyone who instantly rules out spending money on something just by the mention of DRM is a moron -- it boils down to the relative cost versus the scope of the DRM. Of course, if the subscription is $20+ then screw it.
DRM has never made anything cheaper. Is it odd to complain about something that's only bad, not beneficial, to the consumer? I'm not saying OnLive is shit because it's the perfect DRM, I'm saying OnLive is shit that is only funded because it's the perfect DRM.

I'm not arguing that DRM makes anything cheaper, I'm arguing that the fact that something has DRM on it should not be an absolute bar to purchasing something. It diminishes the product, yes, but if the product is priced reasonably enough in comparison -- effectively making it a rental -- then who cares.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
So... basically what I'm getting with Onlive is:

1) I input a command
2) Command is sent to Onlive servers
3) Game on Onlive servers executes my command
4) Video footage of game executing my command is sent back to me in real-time

Is that correct?
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Armacalypse said:
Metro said:
I love how the invocation of 'DRM' is an instant third rail to a lot of young gamers today. Just another buzz word issue on the checklist of hipsters to be against automatically out of context.
Yeah sorry, I'll try to stay away from any opinion that might seem "edgy" to you, just because I don't want to seem like a mainstream "edgy" type youngster or something. Also, I'm very hot (not wannabe cool).

Or, we use proper arguments.

While DRM diminishes the value something has it doesn't make it entirely off-limits. It depends on how much per month is required. If it's only $5 then, quite frankly, who gives a rat's ass about the fact that it's just the next step in DRM.

Anyone who instantly rules out spending money on something just by the mention of DRM is a moron -- it boils down to the relative cost versus the scope of the DRM. Of course, if the subscription is $20+ then screw it.
DRM has never made anything cheaper. Is it odd to complain about something that's only bad, not beneficial, to the consumer? I'm not saying OnLive is shit because it's the perfect DRM, I'm saying OnLive is shit that is only funded because it's the perfect DRM.
Great post. Saved me the trouble of going on about the oldest rhetoric trick in the book and its pathetic execution. Slight detraction in the b score though, because you didn't point out the glaringly obvious strawman in the second quote.
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone
treave said:
So... basically what I'm getting with Onlive is:

1) I input a command
2) Command is sent to Onlive servers
3) Game on Onlive servers executes my command
4) Video footage of game executing my command is sent back to me in real-time

Is that correct?

Yes.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Xi said:
treave said:
So... basically what I'm getting with Onlive is:

1) I input a command
2) Command is sent to Onlive servers
3) Game on Onlive servers executes my command
4) Video footage of game executing my command is sent back to me in real-time

Is that correct?

Yes.

Doesn't sound that impossible then, since you're not streaming the game itself but the video. Of course, this method of business implemented as-is pretty much puts an end to the PC modding community.

Also, I read that multiple instances of each game can be running, if it's a low-end game, though higher end games need a dedicated processing unit. Does OnLive guarantee 24 hours of access to their servers at all times minus a possible 5% of server downtime every year? What if the servers are fully occupied with processing other players, and you can't play what you paid for?

I checked out the website's FAQ and they don't seem to mention anything concrete. I mean...

OnLive said:
How long does it take to download a game?
Trust us, it’s really fast – it’s instant, unlike anything you’ve tried.

Claims without proof. No numbers or real guarantees.

Technology-wise it may be doable, but I'm not sure about what benefits it's going to bring. If it changes gaming it'll be for the worse, concentrating all power into the hands of one company. Given that they've already turned this technology into a business, I'm sure they have the patents locked down for a long time.
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
OnLive is going to fail for a number of reasons. It's not even worth arguing about.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
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Location
Insert clever insult here
It's not even doable technology-wise. They haven't actually showed anything under the hood, just lot of "trust us" and buzzwords.

Instead, OnLive's system uses perceptual science to keep the gaming experience smooth. The company's algorithms adapt what's shown so that it seems to be a complete image while the screen is moving, even if it wouldn't look that way if the picture were still.

See? Do you realistically think that if it were possible by modern technology and cheap enough to be doable, the US Army wouldn't be all over it? Their cloud-technology and data compression would be hugely useful for the military communication systems. Especially since they claim to have broken the speed of light in optical cable transmissions. Unless they stole this from DARPA :conspiracy:

Xi, instead of PR hype, how about telling how about telling me why I should switch, when the only benefit is that I don't need to buy a 1000$ PC. If that's the only reasoning, then I would have bought a fucking console. I won't be able to play any Wii-games on it and neither Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft have signed up, so all their games will be missing as well.

And what about mods? Many wargamers are much enrichened by user-created content - more scenarios and campaigns etc. That would die with this, along with extra maps for FPS-games etc.

So it could become a Netflix-type of operation for the most casual of casual turds, who are willing to pay few bucks every month to play kart-games and platformers on their TV with a console-ripoff OnLive-'dongle' controller, watching YouTube-quality graphics, while wondering why the game pauses every now and then.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,649
On a related note, I think that Xi deserves a honourable mention as a smart troll. Four pages!
 

TNO

Augur
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
452
Location
UK
Aside: Have Onlive actually claimed to have cable transmission speeds _faster_ than the speed of light? If so, thats the most retarded piece of marketing PR bs I've ever seen in my life.
 
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Messages
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Lets pretend for a second that onlive has figured out how to take advantage of quantum teleportation and will offer to upgrade the entire country's infrastructure to support it.

The idea still fails.

The point of a cloud network is that you have a distributed model of computing. The problem is, you CAN'T have it distributed with this system. Instead, every person is tied to a server within a few hundred miles. Cloud services work like this: They have massive amounts of computing power, but their users require power far more massive. They rely on the fact that the average user isn't doing anything all the time. For example, if you had an entire cluster spanning the entire U.S., by virtue of the time zone changes you won't be at peak capacity for every region at the same time. Also, for most programs, the users won't be using the actual computing power at all times. For example, when streaming a movie you probably aren't actually using your connection more then 50% of the time, the movie is buffered and then the connection stops until you need another video.

Onlive's system violates both of these principles. In effect, all you are doing is paying for someone to host your game and send you a video feed. Since the servers can only be located regionally, each player has to pretty much pay for their own, otherwise during the peak hours the majority of players wouldn't be able to play because all the servers are tied up. When playing a game, you pretty much have to take up your own server. So in effect, the cost of Onlive to you has to, at a minimum, buy THEM a PC, buy THEM an internet connection, buy THEM an expensive server center, buy THEM every other piece of crap that goes along to support it, when instead you could just buy a $200 video card upgrade to your own PC and play into infinity.
 

GarfunkeL

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Insert clever insult here
TNO said:
Aside: Have Onlive actually claimed to have cable transmission speeds _faster_ than the speed of light? If so, thats the most retarded piece of marketing PR bs I've ever seen in my life.

IIRC, they claimed 5 ms respond times for "average" player. They haven't outright said "we broke speed of light!!!" cause even retards wouldn't fall for that but that's the only way they could fulfill their promises.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Metro said:
I love how the invocation of 'DRM' is an instant third rail to a lot of young gamers today. Just another buzz word issue on the checklist of hipsters to be against automatically out of context.

While DRM diminishes the value something has it doesn't make it entirely off-limits. It depends on how much per month is required. If it's only $5 then, quite frankly, who gives a rat's ass about the fact that it's just the next step in DRM.

Anyone who instantly rules out spending money on something just by the mention of DRM is a moron -- it boils down to the relative cost versus the scope of the DRM. Of course, if the subscription is $20+ then screw it.

You know i remember a time where games either had no protection or had a protection in the form of a manual or manual puzzle (for the devious). I could move games into other directories. Install patches/updates regularly and keep the game portable. Why i could have a mega-dvd/folder/flashdrive full of games with maybe a menu if i really wanted.

How the fuck do DRM / cd protections / badsectors / n time keys help again?

Sorry are you saying that they fuck up the longevity of a product? Its usability? Modability? You don't say?
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
SCO said:
How the fuck do DRM / cd protections / badsectors / n time keys help again?
They actually don't help, people buy less of that crap while TPB has NoDRM versions - which of course leads to developers/publishers baaawing and making even more retarded DRMs happen because they are cretins - which in turn leads to even more sales loss. They are slowly killing themselves on their own which is good.

Maybe a retarded Onlive DRM will finally kill one or two - even with so many retarded sheeple around many still won't buy a hardware box without which they won't be able to download and install a game on their PC.

GarfunkeL said:
IIRC, they claimed 5 ms respond times for "average" player. They haven't outright said "we broke speed of light!!!" cause even retards wouldn't fall for that but that's the only way they could fulfill their promises.

Better ask when we'll finally see at least a single proof that Onlive works like it's hyped to work and isn't just another hardware DRM like USB dongles for professional software.
 

Micmu

Magister
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
6,163
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ALIEN BASE-3
Btw, it sounds like a pile of fail straight away. I'm not worried about yet another thin client/server attempt.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
OnHoax. Now to play the games you bought you will have to connect through the EA proprietary modem, yay!
 

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