Ori and the Blind Forest

[Damned Registrations]

Sure, but we're talking about the skill floor here, not the ceiling. Anything stops being casual if you're trying some no hit speedrun bullshit.

 

[DraQ]

Sure, but we're talking about the skill floor here, not the ceiling. Anything stops being casual if you're trying some no hit speedrun bullshit.

We are always talking about skill ceiling as long as it doesn't involve self-imposed challenge. Ironman is definitely not self-imposed if you can select it from the menu.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Well if that's your criteria, this is still way behind spelunky, cave story, hollow knight, momodora, and basically any old platformer where you can set your lives to 0. If you like the game because it's pretty and fun to move in that's fine, but you really shouldn't be trying to sell it as a difficult game. It's easily in the lower 50% of the pile in that regard. It's like telling people you just discovered the Might and Magic series and it's the pinnacle of tactical combat because you can start the game with 6 rogues and that makes things pretty rough.

 

[Harpsichord]

Just gonna throw some shit on the pile and say that I think Ori's a really good game that isn't too hard or too easy. Furthermore, I think that there are a lot of really cool design elements(e.g. whether an enemy impedes or facilitates progress is contingent on player's handling of that enemy) that deserve more attention.

 

[DraQ]

It's like telling people you just discovered the Might and Magic series and it's the pinnacle of tactical combat because you can start the game with 6 rogues and that makes things pretty rough.

Do you seriously see no difference between an option, put explicitly in the menu by the devs, to set difficulty level and game being difficult because you play it poorly (like by making a shit party)?

 

[Damned Registrations]

So, if the devs tacked on 'thief mode' to MM3, would it suddenly be a deeper, more challenging game than it was before, because it's an explicit option? Even though it was never considered in the original design? Sure, such a run might be more interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that you can also go through the game with +300 hp and shit by spamming loyd's beacon a few times a day.

I think a fair judge of a game's challenge is how much effort it takes to see all of it's content. Ori set the bar very low by that metric, as would any game that lets you set the difficulty to a trivial level. Spelunky set it painfully high (I've still never gotten through area 5) and I found Cave Story and Hollow Knight both did a good job of finding a nice middle ground. Getting through the optional areas of those games feels like a worthy challenge, there's no easy way to do so. Trying to play through an otherwise easy game without ever getting hit does not.

 

[DraQ]

So, if the devs tacked on 'thief mode' to MM3, would it suddenly be a deeper, more challenging game than it was before, because it's an explicit option?

I take it as a "no".


Ok, I will help you:
One is an explicit option created to adjust game's difficulty, the other is a side effect of mechanical depth added by character and party system and only achieves difficulty when playing poorly (whether it should - ideally - be possible to play chargen poorly is another matter) which is something that can make (with sufficient amount of suck) any game hard.

Even though it was never considered in the original design?

"Put in the menu" == "considered in the original design", or a functional equivalent of thereof (not considered originally, but tested, acknowledged to work and approved all the same).

I think a fair judge of a game's challenge is how much effort it takes to see all of it's content.

So all games are trivially easy because of youtube?

Spoiler

Also: buying is self imposed difficulty.

Ori set the bar very low by that metric

The metric is shit, ergo GIGO.

Anyway, since you seem either incapable of arguing properly ('cause retarded) or unwilling to ('cause troll, but also retarded), but I feel like being inclusive today, this is now about who makes a better, appropriately-themed Monty Python impression.
Here's mine:

Spikes, spikes, spikes, spikes!
Lava and spikes!
Lava and spikes!
Lava and spikes!
Lava and spikes!

 

[lightbane]

Finally completed this after having left it apart for a while. To start, I think that if you liked this, The Dragon's Trap is highly recommended: It's way easier, shorter and I would argue it looks almost as good.

Overall, I would say the game is okay. It has beautiful visuals and soundtracks, but sometimes there's so much stuff happening in the screen that it's hard to tell what's going on (especially when you're fighting multiple enemies). Then there's the plot, which is average:

Spoiler

It would have been better if the intro lasted somewhat longer and gave you an excuse to test the controls; the game implies a year or more has passed when one thinks it's been barely weeks, so the mom's death seems to me somewhat hilarious and forced.

As for the main bad, she's rightfully angry due the death of her children and blames the protagonist for something he's not responsible of, but she too isn't blameless, considering she caused a large amount of destruction, went out of her way to kill out every light spirit, inadvertently destroyed a civilization and doomed the forest to die a slow and painful death. Moreover, the last one would have been an issue later on when she tries to feed her last kid, nevermind a creature as large as herself. Then again she's little more than an animal at best, or a worst a literal "dark" spirit, seeing that the Light of the Tree hurts her kind while everything else is untouched, has red eyes by default (which turn white for reasons) and the last thing she does before realizing she overdid it was to angrily stare at Ori to either watch him burning to death, or kill him at long last.

From what I saw of the newest trailer, Kuro being a dark bird spirit seems to be the case, and she probably was one of the last remaining ones.

Ori's adopted mom was also technically a dark creature, but she was capable of loving Ori anyway, which is one of the plot points. Having that magical sphere resurrect her was awfully convenient though.

That brings me to the enemies of the game, which are... There. I don't remember if it's explained whether they're corrupted creatures driven mad by the overall decay, dark spirit things or plain jerks. They're more dangerous due Ori's extreme frailty and limited offensive capabilities (the only proper ranged attack is hidden in an optional area and works like a weaksauce grenade without upgrades), probably the same reason why there aren't any bosses to fight. Also, I didn't find Mount Horu that hard compared to the first escape sequence: By that point, if you have been exploring the game world a little you should have most, if not all mobility upgrades, which makes it challenging rather than a "kaizo mario bullshit" scenario.


TL; DR version: Good for what it is, if somewhat short. My final score for this game is:


Oh, and it only took me about 600+ deaths to complete the game.

 

[DraQ]

I have replayed the game 4 times already, which isn't half bad for a game with minimal added replay value (at least for a completionist like me).
I still think it's fucking brilliant.

Some random, disjoint observations and thoughts:

• The game looks stupidly good on a wall projector. It's not rare for a game to look impressive on this kind of setup, but Ori looks disproportionally good - like you were watching a high budget animated flick. It's also vibrant enough to be readable while blurred, which might be how you see it quite often - not because it is blurry, mind you, but either because you might be shedding a number of single, manly tears in quick succession OR because your eyes might in fact be busy ejaculating. Yes, it's this gorgeous.
  
• You generally get all information you need for your split-second gameplay decisions - all the cues and such - sufficiently in advance. The keyword here is "sufficiently" you probably won't be fast enough to process them while playing blind, but technically it should be possible for a human (for certain definition of a human) to beat Ori perfectly on the first try. Of course everyone not Japanese enough for this kind of insanity can always fall back to muscle memory while swearing profusely at walls.
• The game is extremely awkward to play on just KB, but with a little tinkering you can configure it to give you very fast and precise control scheme with KB + M. To the point where you no longer have to use time pause when bashing.
• The story might be simple, but it's told extremely well, with proper character motivations, parts fitting together and enough of a twist to throw player's expectations off during first playthrough. It also manages to successfully punch player in the gut some 10' in, which is something games generally don't succeed at.
  
• The game Ori resembles the most is probably the original Soul Reaver - sure, it's 2D rather than 3D, the tone is markedly different and the protagonist is way less talkative, but the amount and integration of metroidvania elements is remarkably similar and there are even some similarities in the narrative and gameplay changes as it progresses - not nearly enough to accuse anyone of ripping anything off, but enough to compliment them on their good taste in games. It's probably a good recommendation on its own too.
• The gameplay is very responsive and it's obvious how much thought was put into refining it - from how exactly the game reacts to jumping onto a wall, to varying animations depending on facing, movement and possibly even exact frame of the previous one.
• Soundtrack remains a work of art.
• I have managed to reduce my death count by nearly a factor of 2 with each playthrough starting at nearly 1k, and having finished (for now) at something around 130. Can do both Ginso and Ruins escapes without dying now.
• For just a huge owl Kuro makes an epic antagonist.
  
• My only complaint is that the game is too short - a non-blind playthrough by not-eaxctly-speedrunner completionist can be expected to clock just under 10h.

Overall, I would say the game is okay. It has beautiful visuals and soundtracks, but sometimes there's so much stuff happening in the screen that it's hard to tell what's going on (especially when you're fighting multiple enemies).

That's only ever the case with those spiky amoebas that split into pieces (a highlighted bloblet can be hard to see among the spirit lights).

That brings me to the enemies of the game, which are... There. I don't remember if it's explained whether they're corrupted creatures driven mad by the overall decay, dark spirit things or plain jerks. They're more dangerous due Ori's extreme frailty and limited offensive capabilities (the only proper ranged attack is hidden in an optional area and works like a weaksauce grenade without upgrades), probably the same reason why there aren't any bosses to fight.

I think the thing with the enemies is that they need to be predictable to facilitate their use in platforming.
Also, Ori can get pretty dangerous later on, with stomp, bash and charged dash from DE. Spamming Sein is usually the worst attack you have later on.
You can also do some sweet tricks - once, nearer the end, I repeatedly stomped one of this green fireball belching creatures throwing it back while also blowing its (ballistic arc) fireball away and upwards - twice or thrice, eventually returning it to its owner.

 

[Vorark]

My only complaint is that the game is too short - a non-blind playthrough by not-eaxctly-speedrunner completionist can be expected to clock just under 10h.

Actually, 10 hours is quite good for a non-blind playthrough in games like these.

 

[DraQ]

My only complaint is that the game is too short - a non-blind playthrough by not-eaxctly-speedrunner completionist can be expected to clock just under 10h.

Actually, 10 hours is quite good for a non-blind playthrough in games like these.

With Ori you generally crave for MOAR and end up with two back-to-back playthroughs.

My own golden length for a non open world game is around 30h.
10h is way too short, especially for a game I enjoy both mechanically and in terms of atmosphere.

 

[DraQ]

Darth Roxor
Have you tried this one? Based on your complaints in HK thread it should be much more up your alley, being heavy on platforming and light on (relatively trivial) combat, while being insanely gorgeous, responsive and ultra-smooth.
It also features the best of both worlds save system so no bullshit backtracking when you die or running around trying to find checkpoint when you want to quit, while also disallowing quicksave spam.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nope. Didn't much feel like it yet, but maybe at some point.

 

[DraQ]

Nope. Didn't much feel like it yet, but maybe at some point.

Highly recommended.

If you're experienced platforming veteran used to joke difficulty level platformers, you might find it casual, but in my experience the difficulty curve went vertical rather quickly, and then started to sort of overhang while growing spikes and spouting lava.

Notable thing is that however rudimentary the actual combat is, the game tightly integrates platforming and combat mechanics - at one point you get ability to propel yourself off the enemies and projectiles, redirecting them, which becomes essential mechanics for most of the game.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

the game's setting is inspired by Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind? Interesting.

... never seen anyone bashing Deus Ex for ripping off Ghost In The Shell either.

 

[DraQ]

the game's setting is inspired by Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind? Interesting.

... never seen anyone bashing Deus Ex for ripping off Ghost In The Shell either.

There is a great deal of evident inspiration by the original GITS movie in DX1.
I don't think it makes DX any less of a classic.

 

[Tigranes]

I thought I'd love this, and I love the style and atmosphere, but the gameplay is not gripping me a couple hours in. After Hollow Knight and Bloodstained, I guess the actual movement / skills / projectiles / etc feel a bit loose. There's not a snappiness to how my dude jumps and moves, or to how projectiles fly and land. Maybe I'll get used to it?

Doesn't help that I'm Very Bad at these kind of games, even though this is hardly one of the more difficult ones.

 

[DraQ]

Doesn't help that I'm Very Bad at these kind of games (...) this is hardly one of the more difficult ones.

Does not compute.

It cannot be both.

Too bad it's Windows 10 only.

It will have to wait until it reliably runs in Wine, or something, then.
Still sucks, though.
Edit:
Although:

Well, Windows 10 is what we're all using, but I don't see why Will of the Wisps wouldn't run even on Windows 7.

Possible detected.

 

[Tigranes]

A. Tigranes is very bad at game.
B. Game is not one of the more difficult ones.

Is A mutually exclusive with B?

Is DraQ dumb?

Is the sky blue?

 

[DraQ]

A. Tigranes is very bad at game.
B. Game is not one of the more difficult ones.

Is A mutually exclusive with B?

Is DraQ dumb?

Is the sky blue?

Tigranes being bad at game is not mutually exclusive with game not being difficult, however
Tigranes being bad at game is mutually exclusive with Tigranes perceiving game as not difficult.

 

[J1M]

A. Tigranes is very bad at game.
B. Game is not one of the more difficult ones.

Is A mutually exclusive with B?

Is DraQ dumb?

Is the sky blue?

Tigranes being bad at game is not mutually exclusive with game not being difficult, however
Tigranes being bad at game is mutually exclusive with Tigranes perceiving game as not difficult.

Translation: Draq thinks the game should be more of a simulation.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I see you're talking about some new Ori here, while this week I started the Blind Forest. Seems p. cool so far.

 

[DraQ]

I see you're talking about some new Ori here, while this week I started the Blind Forest. Seems p. cool so far.

 

[Grauken]

I've gone back to playing the original Ori, because I only played the normal and not the definitive version. Since it's been so long since I played the original, I actually don't know what they changed, feels pretty much the same. I originally played it on normal, this time on hard, and damn is Ori squishy, especially in those escape sequences. Also the game is terrible sometimes at telling you what it wants you to do, which is really a problem because it likes to wrestle control from you for its narrative claptrap and sometimes you don't know whether you're supposed to do something or wait for the story to take over

 

[DraQ]

Also the game is terrible sometimes at telling you what it wants you to do

Disagreed on that. The game is perfectly adequate at giving you information regarding what to do and where and *excessively* careful about not killing you cheaply (which I appreciate).

it likes to wrestle control from your for its narrative claptrap and sometimes you don't know whether you're supposed to do something or wait for the story to take over

There are some cutscenes and semi-interactive cutscenes but outright taking control away and doing something stupid is rare. I think the only case was running into that trap.
Usually you can tell pretty well if you are supposed to do something and can work out what it is.

Ori really became a cute little powerhouse later on

through movement, which was very consistent with how game went.

True that.

But then he(she/it) got stuck in a strange land without Sein to zap baddies and likely couldn't afford to be picky when given spirit lightsaber.
I can't be arsed to complain, TBH, it's not like cute little spirit suddenly became a Doomguy/Caleb hybrid.