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Outward - open world RPG where you are an ordinary adventurer and survival is harsh

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
There's multiple timed quests, even some of the repeatable ones. They are reasonable tho often giving you full days to do them. You can still take all the time you want to explore the game world, just don't start a timed quest until you want to actually do it. You can exit nearly all conversations without accepting anything (press escape if no "I'll be back later" option is there).

As for food/temperature/health -- that stuff gets taken care of very easily, and there are passive skills you can get for just silver that reduce how much you need of each.

Honestly, enjoy that stuff while you can, because once you get to the point that you're "self sufficient" the gameplay becomes far more simplified.
 

Divine Blessing

Scholar
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
107
Location
beyond
r there dragons or any XXL mobs?* like Sinh, Midir, Amygdala, O+S?

initially the blend of Survival and ARPG teased King Size potential, ala DaySoulZ, but after a 2h promenade in Chersonese and some verification streams Outward is exposed as walking simulator with inventory tetris.
the tech is outdated, like y2k ood. Gothic 1, FO3 have superior graphx, sound, (mob) AI and controls. the combat could have been interesting for runes, traps and magic, but this very least potential is spoiled by incredibily stupid (mob) AI and the overall clunky (means laggy and inconsistenst) movement. Outward has the most ugly and stupid mobs in RPG history. see the combat sound as overall quality reference on combat.
the world design feels like a (Mouth)Paint Job, RPS verdict as Eurojank references this one particular episode in pop-culture during the 90s, where neon got mixed with pastell colours (multi-culti, Coco Jamboo), architecture from geography to natural environment to buildings expand the already way to open space into a very sparse populated eternity. distance loses meaning in stretched environments - Gothic in contrast is dense, which in general references the most fatal design flaw - content is thin in every aspect, that it feels stretched mots of the time (see distances above).
the dungeon layouts on the contrary seem to be on Beth level (aka Skyrim), but the interior still relies hard on the brown colour palette than associated decorations (flavor objects), also the Lighthouse as a not uncommon (architectural) theme in gaming (Witcher 3, FO4) has the charm of a youth hostel somewhere in Brazil.
the fauna, as mobs in general r just low in quantity (ca 30?) as in (AI) quality, no XXL, no dragons (but magic), just humanoid- sized XP-bags without any sex-appeal or at least some fantasy flavor... lobsters (instead of dragons or at least an Iron Golem, Fume Knight).
also: Loading Screens. Loading Screens in a post 2k10 Open World r just a no-go (the WoW revolution was Open World travel without Loading Screens, 2004).
the low budget writing (Original Sin 2 "poetry" as reference) wasnt convincing (aka immersing) enough to explore the lore any further than the aforementionend 2hs and streams, altough C+C seems to be translated consequently coherent (as in environment, factions, quests, items etc).

the RPG system is great in its alternative design, as it allows for diverse builds by forcing hard choices, eg. magicka needs to spent hp and stam, as there r 8 classes (aka skill trees) but only 3 to choose (with additional internal hard choices). the substitution of XP via currency (money, items, favor as sole means for character progress) is a refreshing take on the classic formula (kill XP-bags for being able to kill bigger XP-bags - Raph Koestner).
if it now would translate consistently or at least intestingly into combat... Outward could have been entertaining (not on a Soulsborne level though, but i liked Lords of the Fallen too).


maybe Outward could have reigned as Indie-hit, if the already sparse content wouldnt have been artificially bloated by wasted, unnecessary distances (backtracking seems to claim Vamprys pole position, convenience is a major design parameter 2019, cuz lifetime, content etc.), sometimes less (weakness) is more (strength). maybe less, but more dense and elaborated areas, an imporved AI and (most important for ARPG: The Surge could have been great, but: ) controls (the missing jump action is a statement on the game status per se, so i can roll with a cabinet sized backpack, but not jump? k, thats, idk, weird?).
it still deserves some respect due to teamsize (of 10) and the very rarely used (Kingdoms of Amalur, Two Worlds) palette (risky, cuz its overdetermined style usually feels like Disney failing on Schwermetall), but fails at most of the major aspects. Outward doesnt deliver sufficient (and more important quality) content to justify a (approx.) AAA price (of 40 €).

(*Disclaimer: if u need a /s for the /jk than hfgl)
 
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LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...ind_the_success_of_open_world_RPG_Outward.php

Big game, small team, no crunch: Behind the success of open world RPG Outward

The game industry has plenty of horror stories about crunch and poor work/life balance in general -- so it's good to hear a game dev talk about attaining success without sacrificing a studio's collective health and well-being.

Guillaume Boucher-Vidal is CEO at Quebec-based Nine Dots, which recently released the ambitious open world RPG Outward. Games in this genre often require large teams working extra hours at some point in development. But Nine Dots was able to make Outward with 10-15 people, and according to Boucher-Vidal, zero crunch.

And by all indications, it's a commercial success.

"The two main elements that made it possible to make a large game world might sound super obvious, but it's pre-production and not crunching. Those are the main two important elements," he said during a recent GDC Twitch stream.

Boucher-Vidal, who also served as creative lead on Outward, defines crunch as over 52 hours of work per week, per person, for an extended period of time over two weeks. By those standards, he said, Nine Dots has never crunched.

He said Nine Dots had a "very bottom-up approach" when making Outward, meaning that the team was able to scale and scope specific elements of the game while remaining productive and efficient, all depending on what's working during development.

"For instance, at first we planned on doing less monsters but more regions," he explained. "And as we advanced in development we realized that we were able to make a much higher number of enemies, but we had to slim down the number of environments. We could sort of shape the game according to our own abilities while we were developing. It was more effective, and it was also a matter of maintaining the velocity."

In this case, environmental terrain was proving difficult to get right at a larger scale. Boucher-Vidal said the team restarted terrain for a specific region about four different times, trying to get it right. This was not an efficient way to develop, so instead of concentrating efforts on that time sink, the team scaled back environment, and scaled up enemies.

"I hear so many horror stories from other studios where they throw away maybe 70 percent of what they develop, and that’s definitely not something we want to do at Nine Dots," he said. "We are a small team."

A point to prove

Boucher-Vidal said Outward's completion provides something tangible to show the game industry to prove that it's possible for small teams to make big, ambitious games without exploiting developers.

"I have something to prove. When you treat developers right, you actually achieve more and [spend] less. We're trying to lead by example, something I feel the game industry is doing wrong," Boucher-Vidal said bluntly.

"It’s been a subject matter that’s very active recently with the whole unionizing question, and the crunch debacles that keep sparking on social media at the moment," he said. "This is something that I’ve been trying to be loud about over the past eight years, but I’ve been thinking like, 'nobody’s going to listen to an old fool who’s shouting at the clouds.' But if we make something that’s impossible to make, maybe they will listen to us."

Boucher-Vidal admitted that development wasn't "perfect" by any means, and there were plenty of problems the team had to overcome. But he said Outward's development lays the groundwork for future projects that will hopefully enjoy even more efficiency.

"Now that we know better, I feel like, with the same resources and the same time, we could actually achieve much more than what we did," he said.

Find the fun?

Boucher-Vidal's thoughts on crunch don't end there -- perhaps more controversially, he thinks the concept of "finding the fun" contributes to the crunch problem. ("Find the fun" is a phrase oft-repeated by game designers, and attributed to Sid Meier of Civilization fame.)

"I think that part of the problem is that game designers are too lenient on themselves -- you know that expression that I hate? 'You got to find the fun.' If you don’t know where the fun is, why are you a game designer?" he said.

"And that is extremely harsh for a lot of people, but if you can’t answer that question right, you’re not a good game designer and you’re actually wasting very precious development resources," Boucher-Vidal opined. "I see the game design job as being closer to an architect or director, like you would see on movies where you actually have a plan laid out and try to execute it."

"The closer you are to the final, the closer the final product is to the game design you had, the more it says on your ability to predict how things are going to work out," he said.

Rather than looking for the fun during a prototyping phase, Boucher-Vidal rather asks what kind of experience does the team want to convey. Then, it's up to players to decide whether or not that's fun.

For Boucher-Vidal, the experience that Outward intended to convey from the start is making the game wholly-immersive, and making sure nothing in the game would break players' suspension of disbelief. This can be seen in how spellcasting works, the game's survival mechanics, and in the other ways that the game tries to earnestly simulate fantasy tropes.

"By understanding questions like 'why are we making this game, why is it going to be different, what kind of experience will it be [providing]?' we make all of our decisions according to that before even writing one single line of code. Every single line of code going forward will be directed with focus and there would be less waste. We would know where we’re going."

"That’s one of the core aspects I feel game design is not really achieving so well -- that [developers are] going to start making the game before knowing where the game is going to be. That’s extremely wasteful."

And, to Boucher-Vidal, when time, money, or assets are put to waste, that's demoralizing and "disrespectful" to team members during the course of development. "He won’t be as happy, and if he’s offered another job, he will leave," he argued.

All that said, Boucher-Vidal isn't anti-experimentation in game design, but it does have a time and a place. "Experimentation is good for when you’re in research and development but when you are in production and have a product in mind you just achieve it," he said.

As someone who runs the company as CEO, but also served as creative lead on Outward, Boucher-Vidal simply thinks that designers should be creative, but also more business-minded. "This is something that I feel -- so many game designers will hate me after [saying] this...the job of a game designer ultimately is to cut on expenses," he said. "The more you justify your game design on paper the less random things you will have to make to make sure it sticks somewhere."
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
867
Game got a nice price cut on Epic Games store, $21.99 instead of $40

https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/outward/home


So.. should I get it? What are the most annoying things about the game? I know that you cannot save, and I don't care about graphics that much. I liked ELEX a lot, and I'm getting some Elex vibes when looking at Outward, not sure if connection makes sense here
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
466
Location
Mersin
If epic does this sort of sales instead of exclusives, then I'm all for it. So I'll start the game on the weekend, been looking at magic builds. Some guides recommend little to no mana investment and going full reduction gear, I've seen others with 240 mana full blast. Which is better and why?
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
If epic does this sort of sales instead of exclusives, then I'm all for it. So I'll start the game on the weekend, been looking at magic builds. Some guides recommend little to no mana investment and going full reduction gear, I've seen others with 240 mana full blast. Which is better and why?

Just play and figure it out as you go, stop using guides. :) I went full blast 240 mana and had a blast, but I was very squishy. But that didn't matter since I could just outrun enemies and leave a trail of arcane traps behind me.
 

cretin

Magister
Douchebag!
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
1,361
i take back my earlier comments about the game. It employs the same tricks as bethesda shit; e.g you get sucked in by vastness only to find out 30 hours later its all as deep as a puddle.

i want my fucking money back
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
If Outward is as deep as a puddle then there is no game that would possibly satisfy you in the action RPG realm.
 
Self-Ejected

Safav Hamon

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
2,141
Off the top of my head I could name a dozen ARPGs with deeper combat and another dozen ARPGs with deeper roleplaying. Outward is shallow in both respects.
 
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Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Off the top of my head I could name a dozen ARPGs with deeper combat and another dozen ARPGs with deeper roleplaying. Outward is shallow in both respects.

Good for you. Name one that has deeper survival mechanics. And as far as I know you just whine in this thread and haven't even played the game.
 
Self-Ejected

Safav Hamon

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
2,141
Name one that has deeper survival mechanics.

The lite survival mechanics are the most shallow thing about Outward.

Stalker, Pathologic, Kenshi, Sunless Seas

Thea: The Awakening, Neo Scavenger, Dead State, and Expeditions: Conquistador if you include turn based
 
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Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I don't get the extreme opinions either way. Whatever review I wrote of it previously still holds. Neat game, not great, has some very charming parts to it, but doesn't have enough content to keep you going full bore. The atmosphere, art style, and music are all wonderful and make running around enjoyable -- the combat is perfectly fine, not great but not bad either, and the character development system is atypical in how it limits your build options but lets you sample many things. Magic system has some potential with its emphasis on catalysts and combinations and it's one of the few games that actively encourages you to use up consumables and not feel the slightest bit bad that you did. Simple and small crafting system, but one that you look forward to using. Overall a 7.5/10ish game in a non-IGN scale.

I got about 40ish hours out of the game and I'd say I enjoyed all of them.

If they release an expansion/DLC that adds a lot more content and replayability features (emphasizing more builds, more enemies, more variability) then I'd definitely return.

If you're looking for Gothic 2 2019 version, this isn't it though.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,199
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
finally finished it. to be honest, the story isn't that bad, and there are alot of interesting lore. it is just the presentation are just straight out bad. i did the holy mission faction. stuff like.

finding out elatt's origins, what the scourge are, et cetera. are pretty interesting. the political conflict doesn't seem that bad too. the main gripe is everything happening off screen, with just few lines of dialogues to represent the event that happened. like levant's assault on berg, actual armies being raised and wars, people being on edge, et cetera. if they actually had budget it could be a cutscene, shows city and regular citizens being agitated, but instead nothing really change. the only thing that indicate plot is progressing is those short exposition dialogue. i can understand where they are coming from with the very basic presentation, and there are legitimate great idea/lore/story there.

as for the combat, it is enjoyable, decently varied in build and style, but it become static once you have "found" your style and used all breaktrough point. i think it happen too early in the game. it just stop being challenging and just boring because you ROLFSTOMP everything by the mid game.

at this point, i want them to immediately work a proper sequel with proper budget and reasonable team size, and see if they still retain some of the great ideas while expand on the presentation.
 

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