Paizo announces Pathfinder Unchained

[Broseph]

Well this was bound to happen. I understand business is business, but this is kinda a low blow by Paizo. They built their business on D&D 3E's OGL, then their product line resulted in the demise of D&D4e's publication and the hard reboot to 5e (where all mentions of 4e existing are ignored).

Now with WOTC launching D&D5e, Paizo are announcing their new edition revised edition of Pathfinder.

Break your chains!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game contains numerous rules considered sacred by players and GMs alike. Since the system itself was based upon RPG "technology" already more than 20 years old, "backwards compatibility" often meant sticking with the familiar, even if tradition was filled with cobwebs and decades-old assumptions. Pathfinder Unchained dares to take a fresh look at the system itself, altering some of the fundamentals of the game and giving fresh optional takes on classic rules. Inside this collection of alternate rules and options you'll find completely redesigned versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes. Delve into a new system for resolving player actions designed to speed play and dispel confusion. Many of the new systems (such as the revised classes) work seamlessly with the existing Pathfinder rules. Even the most staunchly traditionalist player will appreciate the book's math-lite system for on-the-fly monster creation and the new system for generating dynamic magic items that go far beyond a simple +1 to add lore and interest to the campaign. Players will love the book's new resource pool for martial characters, allowing for exciting new tactical options, as well as the robust new system that allows spellcasters to modify their spells with powerful spell components.

This 256 page hardcover addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is designed to be used by GMs and players that want to change the way their game is played. You can pick and choose the systems you want to change or you can adopt a number of them for a truly new play experience. With Pathfinder Unchained, you can have the game you want to play!

http://paizo.com/products/btpy97vo

I've seen this spiel before. It starts out with one book, and if it is received well via reviews and sales, it translates into a full blown new edition. D&D 3e did this with Book of the 9 Swords (which was a great supplement, and which this eerily looks similar to, in addition to Unearthed Arcana)

as well as the robust new system that allows spellcasters to modify their spells with powerful spell components.

This sounds interesting. Components are always woefully underutilized. IMO components should be a way to create new adventures, with the goal of locating components to a powerful, game altering spell a PC wizard could potentially cast. This can be a great way to balance wizards, by using components they can only get via adventuring, and even then the risk can outweigh the gain. The result though should be the ability to cast very powerful spells...until the component runs out.

 

[Night Goat]

I wouldn't call it a "low blow" - 5E is shovelware, and if Paizo can bring a better product to the market, they should. Their product line didn't result in the demise of 4E - 4E's abject shittiness did.

 

[evdk]

I wouldn't call it a "low blow" - 5E is shovelware, and if Paizo can bring a better product to the market, they should. Their product line didn't result in the demise of 4E - 4E's abject shittiness did.

That and the fact that D&D had some viable competition for once, so when you jumped ship you had somewhere to go.

 

[Alchemist]

Even the most staunchly traditionalist player will appreciate the book's math-lite system for on-the-fly monster creation and the new system for generating dynamic magic items that go far beyond a simple +1 to add lore and interest to the campaign. Players will love the book's new resource pool for martial characters, allowing for exciting new tactical options, as well as the robust new system that allows spellcasters to modify their spells with powerful spell components.

That all sounds interesting to me. I have no problem with them trying to evolve the game a bit and add some new optional rules.

5E is shovelware

I'm curious why you consider 5E to be shovelware. Care to elaborate?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I'll wait and see if this expands. Hopefully they can treat this like they did Mythic, a couple of books, an adventure path, etc.

 

[Scroo]

Well I'm interested. As Alchemist said it's not necessarily a bad thing trying to evolve the rules. And tbh Pathfinder could really be sped up a bit.

 

[Ulminati]

Its a moot point at the moment, since we dont have enough info to tell what it will be like. Worst-case scenario is that it'll be an abortion like 4E that drags regular Pathfinder down with it. I'm personally mildly interested to see what they do with martial maneuvers. The one good thing that can be said for 4E was that it gave martial characters more options than "do I power attack this round?" Components... Enh, i don't know. Many GMs will probably be lazy and let players buy them in any city. I can count on one hand the number of times a GM has said: "that item isn't available here". Even a tiny hamlet has a +4 exotic weapon of exactly the type you need just lying about.

 

[Excidium]

The one good thing that can be said for 4E was that it gave martial characters more options than "do I power attack this round?"

You people been playing too many videogames

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I would have preferred them to mention fighter class as one of their fixers.

 

[mondblut]

I'd love it if the "new" PF would be essentially D&D 4.5e, for the humiliation to be complete. "Paizo Publishing: Fixing the mess WOTC leaves behind since 2004."

 

[Night Goat]

I'm curious why you consider 5E to be shovelware. Care to elaborate?

1:48. A grown man shows up to a public demo of the game with MC Killzalot, a Dwarven rapper in a steel tuxedo trying to make a comeback after a disastrous prog rock album. A lame joke character who ruins the mood and immersion for everyone else. You can tell that the others at the table aren't happy, but there's nothing they can do about it because this is their boss: Mike Mearls, lead developer for D&D Next. This is his chance to make a first impression with the product he's been developing for years, and he treats it with open contempt.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I hate BAB. They should fix that shit.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

What should they replace it with?

 

[Alchemist]

1:48. A grown man shows up to a public demo of the game with MC Killzalot, a Dwarven rapper in a steel tuxedo trying to make a comeback after a disastrous prog rock album. A lame joke character who ruins the mood and immersion for everyone else.

So, Mearls plays a lame character in a playtest almost a year ago and possibly sucks at PR (being bad at PR is nothing new for WotC, by the way). I'm not sure how this has any bearing on the actual design / quality of the game and how it's played at your table. 5E is more than just Mearls, it's built on the work of Gygax, Arneson, other designers through the years and the playtesters. In other words, I need better evidence than that video.

 

[Ulminati]

Eh, I've seen — and subsequently killed — way worse player characters than MC Killzalot.

 

[Excidium]

D&D 5e is already obsolete

 

[catfood]

D&D 5e is already obsolete

How so?

 

[Excidium]

There are so many D&D alternatives that aim to reproduce different versions of the game and likely do it better than 5e's supposed modular approach I just don't see why anyone would want to sit down and play this beyond brand loyalty which is stupid already

 

[nikolokolus]

There are so many D&D alternatives that aim to reproduce different versions of the game and likely do it better than 5e's supposed modular approach I just don't see why anyone would want to sit down and play this beyond brand loyalty which is stupid already

Between DCC RPG, Swords & Wizardry and Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea I've got every flavor of "D&D" I could possibly ever want or need. That said, After reading through D&D 5th Basic's free pdf, I think there are things in there I'll happily pilfer (advantage/disadvantage for instance) and for whatever damned reason it's way easier to get players when you announce up front that you intend to run a brand name game; be that D&D, Pathfinder or whatever.

My motivation for buying the game is mostly selfish, I'd like to GM and have people to play with and having the "official" game at hand is sort of a way for me to wedge my foot in the door and subvert everybody over to one of the games I'd prefer to run.

 

[deuxhero]

Really raise an eyebrow at the idea of "fixing" the barbarian. It's never hailed as underpowered like the monk or the Summoner's poorly laid out rules and doesn't really need a "fix" beyond system wide stuff. Only reasonable speculation I've heard on it suggested is they are nerfing it because some idiot GMs can't figure out how to make combat not take place in a featureless square room and let him charge everything to death (charge is really easy to stop).

But this seems WAY more UA than ToB

 

[LeStryfe79]

I've been using the advantage/disadvantage system for over 5 years in my homebrew except I call it favorable/unfavorable. Don't know where I picked it up from.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I wish they would fix the fighter.

 

[deuxhero]

DSP already did that. They also fixed magic.

 

[Night Goat]

Fighters can't be fixed. All they can do is hit stuff, and that's all their players want to do. It's a class for simpletons.

DSP already did that. They also fixed magic.

Am I supposed to know what DSP is?

 

[deuxhero]

Given DSP+pathfinder gives it straight away...

It's Dreamscarred Press.