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KickStarter Pantheon - (Brad "EQ" McQuaid's new MMO)

Xenich

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I'm fine with a corpse run death penalty if there are spells that can help me make it easier to get it back in case I died in a very cutthroat area, but stupid shit death penalties like nerfed stats for X amount of minutes need to fucking go and never come back. All it does is waste your time by forcing you to alt + tab until it has run its course. That was one of the things that I will never miss while playing a modern MMO.

Certainly, I agree. Just like EQ, there should be means to recover a corpse through various class abilities. With EQ, you had rogues who could sneak to drag the corpse back. Monks who could FD flop to get the corpses. SKs and Necros had FD and summon corpse tools, etc...

I think the discussion has been mostly for corpse runs (even Brad has stated there will be corpse runs). What seems to also be in favor is some additional mechanic that would allow people to recover their corpse in a town through service or the like with many negative aspects after a given time period. That is, a corpse would never "decay" where you lose it. I am fine with the additional mechanic as long as it hurts so much that people cringe at having to use it. If it isn't that bad of a penalty, it gets abused like it is in EQ now where people use it for fast travel and have someone rez them at the hub where their corpse appears.

I am with you about the nerfed stat penalties. Those types of mechanics are stupid in my opinion. They don't have any consequence as people just use them as an excuse for breaks as you said. A real penalty should require resolution, that way, you are forced to deal with it. If you are forced to deal with it, you are more concerned about the errors that lead up to its occurrence. So many players today view death in the games as just a minor inconvenience.

Personally, I would have it like old EQ was. Corpse run, everything you have stays on the corpse, you can only recover it by means of class tools as I mentioned above. The only thing I would change is that the corpse never rots. Though that wasn't really a game mechanic in EQ, rather it was a sever limitation as to why the corpse would rot in 7 days.

Now there was some discussion about if the "all your equipment stays on the corpse" is a good solution. There will be a mechanic in Pantheon of special "colored" mana. That mana won't be of the players source always. For instance, they explained there would be spells and abilities that use a white mana in the game, but it would require a mana source to be able to use them. Some weapons in the world would provide a means to this source. So, you could have a sword for instance that provides a specific amount of white mana as a source and then you could use the spells/abilities you acquired.

Problem with that as it concerns a corpse run and leaving all the loot on the corpse is that those abilities/spells can not be used without that item/weapon. That being a problem really depends on how much they lean on the system entirely. If it is a supplemental system for specific spells and abilities (rare spells/abilities), then I don't see why leaving everything on the corpse is a problem as they can still use their base/skills abilities to retrieve. If though the system is heavily used from the start, then it may create a problem. Corpse recovery should be difficult, not impossible. I guess it all depends on how they work the systems.
 

Hobo Elf

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I'm sure (I hope) they aren't gonna fuck it up so bad like in EQ where if you wiped in the Plane of Sky it was bye bye loot. Anyway, maybe I'm a masochist, but I loved doing corpse runs to get my loot back. I remember panting and sweating as I ran through the mazelike halls of Kurn's Tower as I try to figure out where the hell I died and avoid dying again. I'm playing EQ now in Daybreaks own progression server and it feels a bit jarring that it lacks corpse running.
 

Xenich

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I'm sure (I hope) they aren't gonna fuck it up so bad like in EQ where if you wiped in the Plane of Sky it was bye bye loot. Anyway, maybe I'm a masochist, but I loved doing corpse runs to get my loot back. I remember panting and sweating as I ran through the mazelike halls of Kurn's Tower as I try to figure out where the hell I died and avoid dying again. I'm playing EQ now in Daybreaks own progression server and it feels a bit jarring that it lacks corpse running.

Corpse decay and mechanics where you lose everything indefinitely I don't think anyone is asking for. I don't remember anyone back then in EQ even thinking that was a good mechanic, so we shouldn't see a recurrence of that. Most agree durability and exp loss alone isn't enough of a deterrent. Also, most think having grave yards throughout the zones is also a bad mechanic as it allows for quick recovery. The point is to make death feared and if you can easily obtain your corpse and get back to the area where you died with ease (without having taken steps to with bind points), then there is no fear.

I do not know for sure what will be (they may implement penalty systems that are new and unique as well), but I think corpse runs, with exp loss and level loss are likely to be in.

If you want old school feel, I think Project 1999 has corpse runs, but I am not sure. The official EQ progression servers were always kind of lame imo. They are just the current engine with the expansions cut off. Not really a true return to the old design.
 

Hobo Elf

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Project 1999 does indeed have corpse runs. It is exactly the 1999 experience in all its glory, but you apparently need to have a specific version EverQuest to play it, and this particular one goes for at least 150 bucks on eBay.

The official EQ progression servers were always kind of lame imo. They are just the current engine with the expansions cut off. Not really a true return to the old design.

Yeah, unfortunately. Someone said on an EQ forum that there is no reason to play the progression servers because it's just the modern EQ with all the content cut out instead of being the real deal. I have to agree with that sentiment. The only reason I play in the progression server is so I can party up with people and have someone to chat with. They are far more populated than the other servers. Still haven't been able to find a guild though and so I'm thinking of just quitting again, forever. EQ is a very good game still but it's kinda pointless to start playing anymore if you don't already have friends playing or to play with.
 

Xenich

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A lot more - and playable ones, not "visionary"- than McQuaid's cocaine dream hypothesis of a game.
Sorry, that's a low blow (lol), but i could not resist your fanboying. Do you still reply to people's commentary and criticism on Pantheon by saying "Brad said it, so it will be so" or have you matured past that? You lost me with page after page of typing and ultimately saying nothing at all.

Low blow? It just makes you look like a pathetic emo who obsesses over conversations that occurred months ago and feels the need to make accusations without evidence to bolster their self esteem. It really is rather pathetic, you should see someone about it.
 

Xenich

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Well, new update on Pantheon.

Here is their new site:

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/

And the new screenshots of their Unity 5 move. These are in-game shots. They have been working on a playable alpha of 1-10 over this year. Their goal was to have it ready by the end of this year. Not sure if it is, but they certainly have made progress. The game look great.

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/media/screenshots/

pantheon-in-game-sm-21.jpg


Here is a UI screen shot. Obviously it still needs a lot of work, but it is coming along nicely. The rest of screens of the environment look amazing though. Question will be then if they can keep the zones large while keeping up performance. Considering Brad stated they are doing continuous optimization iterations through each stage of development, the game may play very well. We will see how well it is come alpha.


Obviously this doesn't guarantee the game will be released, but it does show they are working on it and moving forward.

I don't want to get overly excited, this game is far from release, but damn... to have another old school EQ again? just... damn.
 
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Aenra

Guest
Xenich
I missed your last post somehow, sorry. I usually tend to reply until/unless i see no further point.

I just have a healthy level of dislike for fanboys. And you are one. Or in any case, so i came to conclude. Far from the only one of course, even in here, but one nonetheless. It is besides the game you understand, it is the mere mentality alone. Would have said an unintelligent one as well (you talk for pages and amount to nothing but recapitulating what others have claimed, except they do PR, whereas you just swallow it all), but that is included when 'fanboy' becomes a valid characterisation of someone. They ruin the market you see, fanboys. No one needs progress when morons fanboys end up paying anyway, regardless.
Now if my own gaming predilections strike you as an obsession, in a gaming forum of all places, lol, your prerogative to view them as such. Just mind your phrasing; using words such as "pathetic" and "emo" help into painting so much a clearer picture. Of you ^^

When next you have something of import to say, something that derives from your powers of observation or deduction, i will be happy to read it. No sarcasm inherent.
 

Xenich

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A lot more - and playable ones, not "visionary"- than McQuaid's cocaine dream hypothesis of a game.
Sorry, that's a low blow (lol), but i could not resist your fanboying. Do you still reply to people's commentary and criticism on Pantheon by saying "Brad said it, so it will be so" or have you matured past that? You lost me with page after page of typing and ultimately saying nothing at all.

Brad's game just got a major update. Will it be released? Maybe, maybe not, but I would say they are making good progress (go look in the Pantheon forum to see).I have only shown interest in it becoming so, you on the other hand act like a fucking moron because someone asks you to provide evidence to your claims rather than passing off gossip like a stupid child.

As for your other comments. I merely asked if it had more content as the last time I checked people were saying it had limited content. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet you seem to still be obsessing over discussions many months ago because rather than answering a very simple question that had no malicious intent, you went off on a rant like a complete moron.

You really are a pathetic individual. You need help.

Here is that hypothsis game you mentioned:

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/

Whats that? It has a new site? Interesting for a game that is just a hypothesis.


http://www.pantheonmmo.com/media/screenshots/


Oh oh, they completely converted to Unity 5 and have almost finished their 1-10 alpha of the game? Interesting for a hypothesis game.

Quick, go look up some gossip and claim it is all fake and the team is off on some drug addled bender with hookers!

At least you won't be playing Pantheon IF it comes out right? Good, there are plenty of idiot mainstream games for the likes of you. Enjoy, piss off.


You are a fucking moron.
 
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Aenra

Guest
Such angst when you corner them! The misery of it is hormone frenzy - enticing! Whine and wail my friend, and keep on calling me names :)

..you tell them to prove themselves by uttering a single phrase borne of their own mental labours, and what do they do, lol, what's the first sentence they type back..

Brad's game just ...


I will however not fall to your level, and instead grace you with a proper response; You attempted yet again to take my arguments and work them against me. This type of redirecting the flaw of a conversation works on idiots. Not on me. I have told you before, you really are not as smart as you think you are. Accept. Look in the mirror, state it. Move on. Life will accommodate, am sure.

- Am talking (and had been talking) about viability, about systems and depth, and how/if they need be adapted to the fact that we are almost 20 years older. Am talking about a hypothesis of a framework, based on hype and promises, from a man that dealt in those, and only those, catastrophically the last time. And you attempted to dispute that how? Let's quote you:

Whats that? It has a new site? Interesting for a game that is just a hypothesis

Everything is real(tm). Because the game has a new site, lol? This statement only proves one thing. That you are a moron ^^

- I was talking about Unity being bad for MMOs (instancing, networking, object and call handling) and you replied, can look back and quote you if you like, that "Brad said it's fine so /shrug for me". I replied, back then, as to how and why this is indeed a problem regardless of what Brad is promising because 'x' and 'y', and what is your ultimate response in that, lol? Let's quote you again:

Oh oh, they completely converted to Unity 5? Interesting


If you cannot connect the dots, because as i have said you really are not as smart as you think you are, let me elucidate. You are a moron ^^
Need i continue? :)

You keep on. It will aaaall be ok. Mommy said so, honest. Hugs. /mua mua mua
 
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Xenich

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Such angst when you corner them! The misery of it is hormone frenzy - enticing! Whine and wail my friend, and keep on calling me names :)

..you tell them to prove themselves by uttering a single phrase borne of their own mental labours, and what do they do, lol, what's the first sentence they type back..

I will however not fall to your level, and instead grace you with a proper response; You attempted yet again to take my arguments and work them against me. This type of redirecting the flaw of a conversation works on idiots. Not on me. I have told you before, you really are not as smart as you think you are. Accept. Look in the mirror, state it. Move on. Life will accommodate, am sure.

I came to this thread (moved from SotA), not to argue, not to get into any sort of altercation. I merely asked people (I did not even quote or initiate discussion with you) here if SotA had more content now. You chose to respond to me in anger, in petty attacks built from discussions I had already forgotten about. So who is the one here filled with angst brooding over something that was non-existent in the other parties mind? You ambushed me like a child who had a bone to pick. You can attempt to act as if you are the adult here, but it is obvious who began this.



- Am talking (and had been talking) about viability, about systems and depth, and how/if they need be adapted to the fact that we are almost 20 years older. Am talking about a hypothesis of a framework, based on hype and promises, from a man that dealt in those, and only those, catastrophically the last time. And you attempted to dispute that how? Let's quote you:

The problem with your argument is that you establish it from a narrow perspective. You claim "20 years older" as if everyone who played EQ were children who had no responsibilities to attend to. I played with many people my age now in EQ, so obviously this idea that somehow things have changed and people won't have time for an EQ focused game isn't founded. In fact, many I know have more time now as their kids are grown up and moved out of the house. Some are retired with much more time, and some are just in the same type of life they were back then. The point is, there are players for such a game. To claim otherwise is just to be obtuse to cling to some anger you obviously have against the game or those who are interested in it (obvious from your aggressive behavior in this thread).




Everything is real(tm). Because the game has a new site, lol? This statement only proves one thing. That you are a moron ^^

You state the game is a hypothetical, a hypothetical implies the game is just talk. As we can see, they have been progressing with the game. They created a new site, picked up new people, fleshed out more of the game (look up races, classes, etc...). This doesn't guarantee a release, but it does show there is progress, work, effort to their goal. You can certainly have the position that you think the game will never be released, but as more and more information, more work on the site and content is released, that position becomes less sound. Though you knew this already and are just infatuated with the game or still emotionally distressed by me hitting too close to home with my direct and brash comments about you personally.




- I was talking about Unity being bad for MMOs (instancing, networking, object and call handling) and you replied, can look back and quote you if you like, that "Brad said it's fine so /shrug for me". I replied, back then, as to how and why this is indeed a problem regardless of what Brad is promising because 'x' and 'y', and what is your ultimate response in that, lol? Let's quote you again:

Yes, you gave your opinion on such. I merely pointed what Brad (and the developers) have said about the performance of the game so far. This obviously isn't "fact", certainly Brad could be telling us mis-truths, that this whole thing could be some drunken ploy by the druggie and his hookers to gain more money from the unsuspecting people who pine for the days of EQ... but... well... there is no way to test that at the moment. All we can do is wait till there is some actual evidence for or against such speculation. You see, I was content to accept what the game maker says about the game until that can be established otherwise. I have no investment in the game and even concede that it may never come to fruition. You on the other hand seem certain as you smugly proclaim the game failed due to its selection in engines, its intended audience, its design and the personal nature of its creators. So far, it seems I am the one just waiting to see what will be and not trying to "win" an argument that can't currently be won.





If you cannot connect the dots, because as i have said you really are not as smart as you think you are, let me elucidate. You are a moron ^^
Need i continue? :)

You keep on. It will aaaall be ok. Mommy said so, honest. Hugs. /mua mua mua

You seem to do a lot of assuming. Your signature is quite honest in the fact that you think very highly of your opinion. You think so highly of it that you believe that you can foretell the future with only rumors, gossip and speculation.

What we know about the Unity 5 conversion is that the game looks much better than it did in Unity 4. We can see from the screens that the game is moving along, that they have some very nice looking areas. All those screens show is that there is "progress". It doesn't guarantee the game will be finished, it doesn't mean the game will be good, and it doesn't mean that it will run smoothly. This can not be discerned by anything other than speculation.

You keep telling yourself you are smarter than me, someday you will believe it and someday your insecurities will not deem it necessary to hold on to all those emotions. I find it amusing though that I have made such an impression on you that you obsess over discussions long ago. In fact, I had forgotten who you were and had to go back and look up the past discussions. That is how unimportant you are to me. If you want to be my fan, that is ok I guess, though I think there are more productive things to do with your time. It is your call little one. /pats you on the head

Edit:

BTW, a comment on our last discussion in this thread from months ago. The last response I had to you was asking you to clarify your position on zone sizes and my response to you being that I thought that some of your concerns were likely considered by the Pantheon team already. I even said you could look for possibly more information on the topic and even ask the developers questions on it.

My discussion with you was polite and I never insulted you even though it was obvious you were getting impatient by my responses for you to clarify your point.

You never responded to me, though you did smugly mouth off emotionally in one more post that was generally directed at the conversations that were happily going on about the game without your negative approach.

I have come to the conclusion that you have no grounds to be upset. You are an immature child who holds grudges and gets upset easily because they have low self esteem (which is why you keep trying to tell me I am not smart, like anyone would even care?). You also have some distaste for this type of game, which is fine but you show signs of being a mainstream player, the very type of player that would be unwelcome in a game like Pantheon due to the fact that your opinion on game mechanics is everything that EQ was not.


I am not sure why you have such an emotional attachment to this discussion, but I am sure of one thing. You truly are a complete idiot. This is often the result of letting your emotions drive you. I am sure if you could get those in check, you might actually be able to apply so honest logic to discussion, but until then I would pop some extra prozac and spend your time in the casual mainstream games of your taste.

Good day!
 
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King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
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Strap Yourselves In
I know exactly where I am. This thread and specifically your back-and-forth with Wonder Boy up there came to my attention through Admin.

Carry on, but we're watching you.
 

Xenich

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I know exactly where I am. This thread and specifically your back-and-forth with Wonder Boy up there came to my attention through Admin.

Carry on, but we're watching you.

Well don't blink, you might miss something.
 

Xenich

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So it looks like they picked up some early investors for the game which is why they are making progress:

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/

Has Pantheon been funded? How are you guys going to address the development costs of making an MMO?

In addition to money coming in via crowdfunding, Visionary Realms received a significant first round of funding from an angel investor earlier this year. This enabled us to put the team on payroll as well as bring on additional developers. We are currently seeking a second round of funding to enable us to continue to build the team, specifically more artists and world builders. If you are interested in investing in Visionary Realms and Pantheon, click here.

They are due to have a complete video of game play and the world of the new conversion coming out soon as well and should be finished with their Alpha 1-10 by the end of this year.
 

KevinV12000

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Xenich - Thanks for the update and the good news. I've taken the plunge and have become a Pantheon supporter, backed by some cash. At this point, I'll pay people to make something I'll then pay them for, so long as it is an honest computer game and not a "video game" with "content".
 

Aenra

Guest
To name the good as well as the bad, those screenshots are drooling material. Whether there's depth under the surface or not.
 

Xenich

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Xenich - Thanks for the update and the good news. I've taken the plunge and have become a Pantheon supporter, backed by some cash. At this point, I'll pay people to make something I'll then pay them for, so long as it is an honest computer game and not a "video game" with "content".

Time will tell. So far, it looks promising, but as with any game, the true test is when mainstream interest takes part (in terms of the systems and content). For the most part, you will notice that closed forums have some semblance of agreement on direction (there are a few who say they want old school, but keep making suggestions that are mainstream). That will all change when the forums open up. At that point you will see the standard fair of "implementation x, y, z will cause the game to fail", "if you don't have x, y, z the game will fail" that is common with every game that does not toe the line of mainstream implementation these days. That is when we will see if they put their money where their mouth is and stick to the entire point they were making this game in the first place.
 

Aenra

Guest
Xenich Started writing this as a PM, but since everything else has been public, i think this would be the most appropriate;

I wish for you, and others like you, to be more critical, of this and any other a title. Emphasis on any a title. Desires and facts rarely equate; In this genre however, when the pursuit of said desires amounts to nothing but a furthering of already established bad practices (pay now, just cause we promise!!111!) despite history having showed us better, i tend to speak out. Yes, in vain. Even in here. Which brings me to the point:
I wanted to apologise really, i occasionally fail to reign it in. This one went beyond 'speaking out'. Having presented my arguments, should have left it there, and you free to believe whatever the fuck makes the world better for you. Pressing it on beyond that was pointless for either side. My fault entirely, so you have my apologies.

(since you may come to wonder): nothing to do with your coming to post on this or that thread. You'll see plenty of criticism there written by me; And nothing to do with Crispy's note of warning either..am uninterested in that idiot altogether, never mind what or why has triggered them
 

Xenich

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Xenich Started writing this as a PM, but since everything else has been public, i think this would be the most appropriate;

I wish for you, and others like you, to be more critical, of this and any other a title. Emphasis on any a title. Desires and facts rarely equate; In this genre however, when the pursuit of said desires amounts to nothing but a furthering of already established bad practices (pay now, just cause we promise!!111!) despite history having showed us better, i tend to speak out. Yes, in vain. Even in here. Which brings me to the point:
I wanted to apologise really, i occasionally fail to reign it in. This one went beyond 'speaking out'. Having presented my arguments, should have left it there, and you free to believe whatever the fuck makes the world better for you. Pressing it on beyond that was pointless for either side. My fault entirely, so you have my apologies.

(since you may come to wonder): nothing to do with your coming to post on this or that thread. You'll see plenty of criticism there written by me; And nothing to do with Crispy's note of warning either..am uninterested in that idiot altogether, never mind what or why has triggered them


I plan to be critical of this title, but at this stage, there really is no way to do so with any tangible evaluation. Once that changes, once a product is testable or visible then I can be more critical of things such as engine performance, game features, etc... As it is now, they are going along as well as as could be expected for a company that failed its KS and floated along with minimal outside funding. I also have invested nothing in this game, so if it fails, it fails... It only produces some disappointment. If you read quite a bit about Pantheon and its team though, there is no begging going on like you see in other game pitches. His pitch is pretty much "take it or leave" in its approach.

As for speculation, well... I think it may come to pass. I think they may end up making the game. Early on, it appeared as if it was touch and go, with the drama, the stagnation on updates, the game visual qualities being sub par, etc... it had the appearance of being one of those cash grabs. Though, time has gone on and a lot of things they have done are moves in the right direction. They got rid of the RMT store stuff they had early on, they have made progress on games look, lore, and fleshed out some basic systems. So, for the most part it "appears" as if it may happen. There is still a long ways to go and obviously, things can circle the drain at any time, but so far things look to be making progress, time will tell.

I am not going to bother obsessing over things I can not verify and wasting effort on things I don't care about. I will follow the game, take interest and hope it achieves what I am looking for. The moment it deviates from that, this game will be filed away in the "don't give a crap" area of my brain where it will soon be forgotten (like all the mainstream MMOs I don't care about). Until then, it is the position of "Trust but verify". So, I will take Pantheons team at their word and then check them to it as they release content. When their actions deviate from their word, then I will take issue.


Here is what I do know though.

Regardless of all the drama concerning Brad and Co, EQ and Vanguard were quality games in my opinion. EQ I played for several years before SoE finally made it too far mainstream. Vanguard, even though it was buggy as hell and had numerous issues was still a quality game with many innovative features of play (until SoE mainstreamed it). So, regardless of what happened, I liked what Brad produced even with all its faults. So... in my view, even in his failures he has produced something I found enjoyable, so if he produces what he has previously produced, the game will still have some enjoyment.

Also, the game industry doesn't need to live off WoW profits. This is something big business established when it bought out all the studios. Being profitable is not enough for them, they need to be extremely profitable. Pantheon is building the game on a budget far less than EQ. EQ took 24 people 3 years on an 8 million dollar budget to produce. Pantheon will have nowhere near that, but... they do have up to 14 employees now (they hired back some of the old team with the money from that new investor) and are about to finish a level 1-10 investor demo of the game which will be fully functional and content featured (I think they said around 2-3 zones done). Where they go from there, I don't know. I think they said they would not be doing another Kickstarter and would be seeking investment through other sources. What that is, I have no idea but they mentioned it would not be a standard publisher deal investor to avoid the problems they had when making Vanguard with Microsoft's pullout and SoE acquisition.

I know that a game can have a small subscriber base and still be profitable. EQ at its height was 550k subs and that was an extreme success back then. Many games have been successful on much much lower subs. It all comes down to what they expect to make to justify keeping the game going. From what is described, if the game has a solid subscription base that allows them to continue keeping the doors open and providing new content to the game, then they think it is a success. Look at Project 1999, it has over 10k players, it is free and it is early old school EQ in design. It doesn't cost that much these days to host servers and run an MMO as it used to. If a game nearing 20 years old with craptastic graphics and a clunky interface can pull that many people, how many could an updated game with similar features pull and how much would it cost to run it? I mean, we already saw with companies like Larrian that you can produce quality content on a low budget and be very successful. I think it is reasonable to consider that they could achieve some success with a base number of subs filling a specific role in the market that is non-existent.

Other than that, what we do know is listed in the tenants, discussed heavily in the forums as features. I am still very concerned myself as there are a lot of mainstream interest (especially since the recent screenshot release) where people are already attacking people discussing old school features (ie Corpse runs will cause the game to fail, game must have fast travel or it will fail, classes must be balanced between each other or it will fail, Game must have PvP or it will fail, etc...). I have seen this happen many times before. I watched LoTRO, DDO, WoW, Rift, etc... be destroyed by the mainstream demands and being that this games entire point is to bring back those features that are no longer present in today's games, well... for me that is a concern.


There is a possible solution though which could make EVERYONE happy. They discussed that they would be willing to have different server rule sets to fit certain play styles if there is enough demand. So, it may be possible to have a server that is more of a mainstream design of Pantheon and one that is more of an old school design. They even said that though they are not making the game a PvP focused game, if there is enough interest, they would be willing to open up a PvP server specifically focused to that. I think such approaches would solve a lot of the problems we have these days in the MMO market. Imagine how many games could pull back people if they took that approach to truly customizing a server for a specific niche crowd? I know that many of the games I played in the past, that if they would have copied the original server rules off to its own and then did separate design focuses, I would still be playing them to this day.

As for the drama earlier, already forgotten, and crispy? I don't worry about him.
 

Aenra

Guest
They discussed that they would be willing to have different server rule sets to fit certain play styles if there is enough demand. So, it may be possible to have a server that is more of a mainstream design of Pantheon and one that is more of an old school design

This will only hurt people like you (and i am saying like you because honestly, i know not what i'd choose, not right now, with no ingame experience);

1) Burn rate. If "modernised/conventional" server gets up, you get content locusts. Barring numbers way above Pantheon's capabilities (ie money), that means devs struggling to cope with new raid/bosses additions
(yes, you would eventually run those too, but the above signifies a stagnated content growth in all other areas. Which is exactly what one needs do if content locusts are expected to remain subscribed)

2) Populace. When i) game is niche from its get go, ii) you need four more people just to take a virtual piss, each and every customer matters. Considering what's happening currently, the number of people eschewing the old school server for another could mean a serious blow to those wishing, and having paid for, an old school experience

That aside, was reading the class descriptions. I got to admit that the recent screenshots coupled with a shaman as described..?.. Motherfucker.. A nice dream to hold on to :)
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
This will only hurt people like you (and i am saying like you because honestly, i know not what i'd choose, not right now, with no ingame experience);

1) Burn rate. If "modernised/conventional" server gets up, you get content locusts. Barring numbers way above Pantheon's capabilities (ie money), that means devs struggling to cope with new raid/bosses additions
(yes, you would eventually run those too, but the above signifies a stagnated content growth in all other areas. Which is exactly what one needs do if content locusts are expected to remain subscribed)

Depends on how "mainstream" they make it. The game won't be instanced, so it won't change contested content and such greatly slows down locust behavior of the masses. If you think about it, the reason most people get bored in the mainstream games is because they can consume all the content quickly and then have nothing left to do. Lets consider how EQ was designed a bit in respect to that.

1) All mobs in EQ were contested, so basically people had to catch the mobs up before another did. Keep in mind too that EQ named mobs were often "rare" in that they were not up constantly, so even if you did get to a camp, you still had place holders to deal with while you were trying to get a named to pop. Then, consider that even if the named popped, the gear that dropped was not guaranteed either. It was not uncommon to have to kill the rare mob multiple times to get that rare or uncommon loot drop. Mobs were on 30 min timers in EQ mostly (some longer depending on if it was a special mob) so, in a 24 period you could only have a maxium of 48 spawns, though practically more like 40ish or less. Start thinking about the rarity of the mob spawning (maybe 1 in 5, some even lower odds) and consider how often you would see this rare mob and much less get that rare loot.

That is just groups. Raids while not having place holders like the group mobs, did have a 7 day timer and a rare loot list as well. Even though you could get multiple items dropping from a raid mob, the list for a raid mobs loot was quite large and the rares were often very rare.

So, contested content, with place holders and timers on mobs and it basically kills locust activity. Add in the fact that in EQ, the raids were pretty grueling and well not everyone had everything on farm and full sets of gear. Most of us took months (even years) to get to some raid mobs. My guild was always an expansion or so behind in content.

So I don't see the locusts getting very far in such a game. When I talked about mainstream, I meant things like easy travel, easy corpse retrieval, etc... Making it entirely like mainstream wouldn't be practical.


2) Populace. When i) game is niche from its get go, ii) you need four more people just to take a virtual piss, each and every customer matters. Considering what's happening currently, the number of people eschewing the old school server for another could mean a serious blow to those wishing, and having paid for, an old school experience

That aside, was reading the class descriptions. I got to admit that the recent screenshots coupled with a shaman as described..?.. Motherfucker.. A nice dream to hold on to :)


Depends. They said they would be closely monitoring server sizes and would be working on tech that would allow them to deal with dynamic changes in server populations (what that means, I have no idea). It is a problem, but we won't know if it will work till it is tested and this is something they did talk about playing around with come beta.

Everything is "time will tell" though to be honest and who knows, next year at this time we could be reading about how the company folded and the project cancelled. /shrug
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
Guilds camping named mobs and raids 24/7 is not a gameplay element many people want back from EQ I figure


If not, there are solutions to such. For instance, the "Legends" servers of EQ had a raid list that guilds tested to get on for various tiers of content. Basically, they would schedule a time to meet a GM at the Arena and the GM would test them for each tier they were seeking. If they beat the top mob of that tier, they were then put into a schedule rotation for content of that tier. The guilds were then guaranteed that mob (or mobs from a list they signed up for) and no guild would touch those mobs when they spawned. If they did, it would result in being banned from the server.

I preferred the legends servers when I was working heavy hours and had no means of catching any raids, so this is a solution and an option for a type of server. The point is, even if they do as I mentioned, it takes time to excel in the content. A rotation still means you have to wait a while between each reward from a given raid mob. Compare that to WoW where every guild was doing the content every week and recieving equal rewards each time. In EQ, such competition or rotation of content meant it took quite a bit of time for a guild to reach the status of being "equipped" for the next level of content. This is how EQ kept the player base from consuming the content within a short amount of time.

BTW even EQ now still follows that old contested mob concept and EQ has "roughly" 50k still playing the game.

Me personally, I don't care for the raid contested content. As I said, other than the legends server my guild was never able to be there for the current content. It wasn't a big deal though, the game was amazing anyway and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

If I have to deal with limited time which means only the college kids and loafers are able to do the end game content, why... I can deal with it just like I did before. Those who think they can't enjoy a game without being the top tier of raiding are not my problem. I am perfectly happy with doing the content a year or two behind the current jobless kiddies who can be on 24/7. I did it back in EQ during its release, I can do it now. What is cool is that eventually I will hit retirement and maybe... us old retired bastards will have a "l33t" end game guild cock blocking and showing all those stupid fucking kiddies how it is done!
 
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