TBS Panzer Corps 2

You can disable the turn counter when you start the campaign from campaign settings.

Not anymore, according to the manual. I have no idea how the campaign branching works now, though.

 

its super easy to beat by the turn limit, more so than previous titles. You can lower the turn limit for those that don't like how lenient it is. But it seems to be much more lenient than previous, especially Panzer General I.

 

I used to play "Panzer General" but before that the Command Series consisting of "Conflict in Vietnam", "Decision in the Desert", and "Crusade in Europe." There are many games like the latter that came out later (e.g., real-time with pausing instead of TBS) but not always as simple. Here's a sample of gameplay for "Crusade in Europe", but the graphics isn't that good because it's from the 1980s (jump to the 1:10 mark):



In short, you pause, issue commands, then unpause to see what happens. Untouched units operate based on "local commands" (probably whatever strategy would have been followed by the identified commander, with qualities for attack, defense, etc., ranked) until they're fortified.

Unit types follow the campaign scale. In this case, they are in regiment or division level, with historical names and more specific strengths (e.g., "6th Airborne Division, 8,800 men, 8 days supply"). Also, air units attack from their bases and then return to the latter, and supplies are sent via routes to units periodically (with units surrendering if they get cut off and run out of supplies).

Given the unit designations, there are no anti-tank, recon, or similar units. They are probably integrated with the game mechanics, with units become more resistant to armored or air attacks if in time they reach a higher defense level (e.g., fortified), or particular units detecting the enemy several hex places away.

 

What I have see so far looks pretty much crap.

It indeed seems to be "Panzer General 3D II"

They have really done the same as SSI and dumbed the game down to a point where it's just pretty tanks blowing up in 3D.

 

Played it for a little while. It's not a total low effort/talent/iq pos like Fantasy General 2, but overall seems very meh.

1. Wehrmacht campaign yet again, and it's the only one in the game. Seriously? At this point, if you're not bringing anything fresh to the table then just don't bother. Especially at this price. I'm yawning before the first briefing is done.
2. This is the least surprising thing in the world, but the potato-quality 3d engine sucks for this game. The readibility suffers a lot, after being able to tell different types of infantry and tanks from each other at a first glance in PC1 we are back to square one. Tbh in the first map I had trouble telling bf-109 from a stuka. Just why.
3. At the very least the animations are fairly smooth and quick, it's not a complete slog like OOB. But some of the animations seem to be missing or they just run out of money/didn't care. Destroyed tanks blow up, planes crash down, but artillery just disappears into thin air. Looks jarring af. Model quality varies from ok to shit, there's nothing mindblowing there at all.
4. Yet another thing they copied from oob is the deployment limits. You have core slots like in PC1, but different units take different amount of slots. This sounds ok until you look at the numbers and realize that towed artillery can take 6 slots out of 45 available, while every type of tank takes 2. Er, what.
5. Maps feel really cramped and small, maybe shit opens up later.
6. UI looks fairly slick, but is entirely too modern and lacks any sort of flavor.
7. Units have new abilities and they seem actually useful and cool. Parking a recon next to an enemy unit gives every attacker bonus to accuracy while standing next to an engineer gives 50% entrenchment ignore bonus. I think most people know it already, but after a long debacle on how it makes no sense and is too difficult to balance in PC1, overrun is also back for tanks.
8. The one big new thing mechanically seems to be the possibility to split units in half, which wastes a turn and takes additional slot? Like, the most whatever thing they could come up with and probably a death trap more often than not. Oh, the planes now operate from assigned airbases to which they return at the turn's start. If you want to have more air coverage, you need to take over more airfields and reassign your assets. Makes sense.
9. I only got one hero, but he gave an "ignore entrenchment" ability to assigned unit. So it seems that unique and useful abilities for heroes are back instead of the boring +1/2/3 shite from PC1. Incline.
10. You can customize your commander at the start with positive and negative traits with point buy system, like in MoO2 and similar. Adds a bit of flavor.

 

I agree with most you say but what else did you expect a game called "Panzer Corps" to be about than Panzerkorps?

 

So can you end up the war with different outcome,or are you just replay it?

 

I expect premium content for premium price. PG2 came out 23 years ago and had two German campaigns, two allied campaigns and a Soviet campaign. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be too much butthurt if they used PC name for brand recognition and the game would be about a NATO vs. Warsaw Pact conflict or maybe even interesting historical stuff that has no games about it like Korean war or Arab-Israel conflicts.

Seeing this in 2020 is just mind-boggingly disappointing.

 

Blitzkrieg was always the core element of Panzer General, and thereby Panzer Korps. Otherwise they would called it Allied Korps.

And it's quite guaranteed that they will milk this with DLC campaigns now.

 

tanks are not all 2 slots, only PZ 1's and 2's are..pz 3's are 3 slots and they go up from there..

 

you can conquer britain and the US as germany

 

I said this game isn't exactly a pos, but I've played a bit more and it starts to stink worse and worse.

It just feels gutted. There's no victory grading anymore, which was an integral part of the genre to present challenge and combined well with how campaign branching worked as well as offered some rewards. The SE units are gone completely, while they were really good concept and one of the few points where PC1 was objectively inclined over PG2 and all its free prototypes you could get. There's even some absolutely basic stuff missing, like an overview of new equipment at mission's start, wtf.

The slot economy is borked beyond reason. Some of the traditionally less useful unit types are literally useless now, unless you go out of your way to larp. AA units costing the same slots (even more in some cases) as fighters. Lol, wtf, are you people stupid or something? It also might be a minor point as it doesn't really have in game impact, but you can also see the nonsensical design in the same way you can see it in nu-firaxis games for example - they come up with some arbitrary rule that completely collides with other basic rules and it's just left in because devs don't care. Like for example, if the planes have to get back to an airfield after each turn then why do they have ammo count?

I will repeat myself, but the content it provides, the campaign... zzzzzz... what was I saying? I don't remember, but all I know is that I don't want to play exactly the same shit for the eleventh time, only with potato graphics.

Speaking of graphics, when I reached the Norway mission and saw the "ship" "models"... You just can't have something like that in a 2020 game sold at full price. You just can't.

It's like Slitherine tries to deliberately piss me off as much as possible. I still have some of their games on wishlist, but I will delete them all now, I'm just that butthurt.

 

Well, that does sound depressing. I was expecting a carbon copy of the mechanics from Panzer Corps plus 3D graphics.

 

Thank you for biting the bullet for the rest. Now, I don't feel tempted to "try out" the game on Steam.

 

Need a Panzer General fix? Just get yourself Order of Battle and try out the free demo campaign. It's a better version of Panzer Corps with added logistics. If you like it go buy the ridiculous DLC bloat or demo it.

Or try Unity of Command 2 for another good game or simply one of the several free PG alikes.

 

I don't really feel like defending this game, as it's not that great, but I found it solid, if somewhat easier then previous one, but that is a pointless complaint since there are plenty of difficulty settings.

SE Units was just completely RNG mechanic that was replaced with another RNG mechanic, prototypes, which I found much more interesting, since you couldn't just endlessly replace them.

Slot economy needs work, I agree (2 point strategic bombers wut.), but your examples are kinda shit. Planes are more expensive, at certain point all fighters will cost 3 points, while FW-190 will cost 5 points. AA will cost up to 1-3 (I don't know how much tank SPAA's will cost.), with most expensive being 88's for being good dual-purpose guns. And you will need them in africa, since allied planes are better then yours, and you will want to be softening them before hitting them with your fighters. Planes have ammo because they use it also when defending, but they do still have too much of it to actually matter, I agree.

 

That's an... interesting take? Big reveal: this entire game is RNG. Your point is?

So you find prototypes "much more interesting", because "you couldn't just endlessly replace them". What? SE units were objectively much better mechanic than prototypes. They were extremely limited, so you couldn't cheese them, but at the same time they were extremely impactful due to free deployment. Also had their unique look and sometimes upgrade trees for a bit of flavor.

I know that point cost goes up, but this does not change anything. You just cannot justify buying AA with such cost (you also need a trait to make AA really impactful for added insult), nor can you many other units. It's borked. Sure, you can larp away, so what.

Moot point, any plane will die before actually using up all its ammo outside of completely theoretical scenarios.

 

If your argumentation is going to that dishonest, I'm not even going to bother continue this. If you can't see a difference between RNG and COMPLETE RNG that SE units were, I'm not sure what you can see.

 

some of your points are true, some I disagree with. I agree about the SE units, but they implemented a trait whereby you have special relationship with industry and can get units still in development ahead of schedule in small allotments. But I do miss SE units. You also get extra prestige by some multiplication factor for each turn you finish the scenario ahead of schedule, so there is a point to finishing faster and each turn multiplies this effect.

As far as towed Anti-Air and anti-tank guns they are far more useful and make much more sense to carry now. First of all many of the towed units only take up one spot (more for the 88).. Second of all most normal artillery does not give defensive fire for units attacked by armor (which makes sense), this is now the job of AT guns. And AA guns can be converted into anti-tank guns on any turn (they lose their AA fire for that turn), but this is extremely useful because often they would become useless once you establish air superiority .

Now they can provide defensive support against armor and the 20mm AA guns have special 1.5 rate of fire bonus and are good against soft target on the attack (which is also realistic, high rate of fire 20 MM cannons were devastating soft target weapons). So cheap towed AA units are now very useful and multi-purpose as air defense, and also anti-tank and even as attack..the self propelled 20 mm AA can mop up infantry all over the place once you have air-superiority. The larger guns are good anti-tank....anyway, its not all bad decisions.

I do think they could have done more though and I expected a bit more, a lot of these things have actually been around in some games for awhile. Anyway its okay. I want to see how the more in depth DLC campaigns will be. They may be more creative.

BTW because the panzer 1 and 2 also only take up 2 spots they are more valuable to keep along instead of auto upgrade like previously. Especially because they both have the 1.5 or 2X rate of fire trait due to being equipped with MG's and or 20mm cannons-- so they end up being very effective against artillery and other soft targets. And since both the PZ 1 and 2 are so mobile and can expose the enemies flanks they have so far remained useful far longer than previously which makes it feel a bit more historically LARPY, which is nice..

I feel like they have attempted to at least make each type of equipment have some sort of reason to justify keeping it deeper into the campaign instead of always just upgrading first chance you get. I do think they are giving out too much prestige it feels like, but this can be adjusted via the difficulty slider, even between scenarios.

 

Thanks for confirming my fears. I feel the same way with Slitherine/Matrix as of late. It's like they're both stuck in early teens dev ability, while at the same time trying to ride the Paradox/Bethesda/EA DLC bandwagon - and getting the worst of outcomes with high prices, low sales, and an increasingly detached grognerd fanbase.

From everything I've seen about PC 2, the best approach is to wait until PC Gold gets put on sale and get that for about 10 bucks. Paying 5 times that for a new coat of paint and a branching campaign? That dog don't hunt.

 

Nice theorycrafting, bro. Now play the game and tell me in how many scenarios does it make a rational sense to use free slots to not buy/upgrade tanks, but go towed AT instead or when it's preferable to get an AA unit instead of a fighter. Oh, right, 9/10 times it obviously makes little sense and the tenth case is a big stretch, because you would still be better off with a tank/plane in the long run.

Sure, that was always a problem in PG-likes, but the way economy worked there, you just had enough tanks, planes and infantry when you played well and were encouraged to better round off your army with different units at one point or the other and some of the more "useless" unit types actually had their little unique niches, like how strategic bombers absolutely murdered ships in PC1 for example. In PC2 there are always clearly superior choices to spend the slots on, which, in my eyes, is a decline compared to PC1. The new system can work well in theory, but at this point it is what it is - a theory. The game doesn't seem to have anything like PC1, where in some dlcs the designers went out their way to rationalize going for AA instead of fighters, which is still kinda an ass backwards way to solve the issue imo.

 

Having enjoyed Panzer Corps 1 and some of its DLCs, I thought I would buy some of the other DLCS, but then those fucks got greedy and made it so you have to buy the whole package together in the form of "Panzer Corps Gold" for $30. They only gave 1 freaking week notice that they are not selling DLCs individually anymore!

Sucks for them. The real gem lies in the modding community anyway. Just downloaded GTPS Grand Campaign.

 

it makes total sense because they take up 1 or sometimes 2 slots and they help a ton in air defense despite what you think. They don't kill, but they suppress and they allow your fighters to destroy other fighters without your fighters taking any damage which allows you to quickly establish air superiority (and often with fewer actual fighter units).... and then after you establish air superiority they can be used as AT tank guns and the 20mm cannon version are very good offensive weapons against infantry and artillery. Combined with the fact now most Artillery does not offer defensive fire against Armour but only AT guns do, it makes them even more useful. A panther tank takes up 5 slots, a tiger 6, same with a Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger. Artillery that at offers defensive fire against armor takes up 6 slots and is very expensive. AA guns are multi-purpose and cheap and take up very low slot numbers.

-AA guns make your own fighters much more efficient and take less damage
-protect your artillery as you advance,
-can protect units against attacks armor
-can attack armor themselves
-and light versions can attack soft targets with with increased rate of fire trait

all while taking up 1 or 2 slots for the most part. They are extremely useful, especially as they gain experience.

 

Dude, again - nice theorycrafting. Go join any multiplayer-oriented discussion and say how spending core slots on towed aa makes total sense.

AA don't help with aerial superiority much, because they have poor to meh mobility, poor to meh coverage and even when you're lucky and ai comes into range they tend to do fuck all, unless you have 88 (which costs 3 slots afair) and/or the aa-related trait (but why would you). What wins you air superiority is the fighters, because they're consistent and then they can do strafing runs on opportunity targets like arty or tanks all day, because mobility is not an issue. You get fighter asap and you piss all over aa, because there's just no point. For 1 slot you can do whatever, like buy half tracks for pioniere - 10x better investment. Yeah, they can switch to AT, cool. Now you can theorycraft how that's awesome when there's pretty much no defensive scenarios at this point and ai is shit scared of attacking supported units anyway, so it comes into play like once in a blue moon.

Also, artillery does not support against soft only, there are pieces that do the opposite and there are pieces that do both. Coincidentally, artillery is another high priority unit that you should spend slots on over aa any time.

 

not all that is true, especially because 88's no longer work well on smaller aircraft like fighters, the guns are now broken up into low altitude (20 mm) medium altitude and high altitude and the 88's are more effective on the level bombers and smaller caliber guns are better against diver bombers and low flying and smaller aircraft...


also suppression is way more valuable than you seem to realize, and airplanes constantly come into range if you put the AA next to your artillery and high value targets. Also hills give your guns extra range. Half-tracks for pioneers take up an entire extra spot, while I do use that for a pioneer company if you do that for very one of your infantry its an incredible waste of resources.