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Paradox is the best company ever :love:

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Konjad, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. KazikluBey Augur Patron

    KazikluBey
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    Paradox games are tied to system clock, just like Starcraft, unless your toaster bottlenecks performance.

    Starcraft games make heavy use of the turn-based nature in their design. When you issue an army move the game knows exactly which game tick it will arrive (how many turns it will take for the move to finish), since the distance between the points is hardcoded in and taken into account.

    Starcraft wouldn't be real time if they told you the distance and how long it would take to move between two points, got it.

    Another example is building/research time required for the majority of production, which is determined by game ticks.

    Just like Starcraft, then. Seriously. The only relevant major differences is the length of the game ticks and the ability to pause.
     
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  2. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    This isn't true at all. In MOST real-time games, it is entirely possible to give orders while paused. Only a few games explicitly forbid this by antics like graying out your screen, the great majority of the games will go ahead and let you give orders.

    And in truth, the only thing which actually distinguishes "turn-based" from "real-time" in most games whether or not a human-significant amount of time and activity occurs between updates. It is certainly POSSIBLE to create a game based on JIT updates and event milestones where the game functions in continuous realtime, but most games simply have a stepwise tick function, where action happens so many times per second.

    This is also why silliness like "drawing at 120 Hz" is purely a delusion, because unless your game's internal tick rate is actually 120 updates a second, meaning something actually can HAPPEN that results in a different frame, all you're doing is repeatedly and pointlessly redrawing the same frame multiple times. If the game itself only updates 30 times a second, then all you get is 4 identical frames followed by 4 more identical frames because nothing has changed.
     
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  3. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    Really? Game logic is tied to system clock? I heavily doubt that, as I do not recall as single instance where any of the mechanics in EU4 (for example) would be tied to real time. I don't have to wait 5 minutes IRL for a cooldown or similar. Hell, the only thing that comes to mind is perhaps game speed, but automatized end turn can hardly be called a game mechanic. Reffer to my earlier post for details.

    I get that you're trying to be cheeky, but you only display your utter retardation. Besides, you are wrong. In real time, there are many different actions you can take at any given time, all of which would require extra ticks to handle. Therefore, the game tick is by no means known. Not that that is relevant to the argument at hand, just thought I'd point out that not only do you seem incapable of understanding the point of the argument, but are also incapable of constructing a vlaid parallel, which is simply sad.

    Failure to differentiate between an example and a proof. Okay, I'll try to explain it to you in words you understand: If I say that one of the characteristics of an apple is, for example, that it contains water, it does not mean that anything containing water is an apple.


    Research time is a typical example of something that's usually tied to system clock, so as to ensure the time it takes to finish is dependent on real time, not platform performance.


    Wrong again. Your entire argument seems to be that EU4 and similar are real time because the turns are short. That's idiotic and, with that definition, StarCraft would indeed be turn-based. Of course, in reality, there are severe design differences between a real time and turn-based game, some of which I've already provided (overall independence on system clock, as it is not necessary, UI information about how many turns certain tasks will take, independence on player reflexes, etc.)


    Oh really? It is impossible in all of FPS, in the vast majority of RTS, you can't do shit in most simulators, racing games are also a no-no, platformers as well...

    I disagree, as stated above.


    Not that I'm trying to argue here, but be assured that this is by no means impossible or even unusual. It's why most games have a cap of sorts, that ensured game logic will only "tick" (or rather that should the next update come too quickly, it will be skipped and the tick will do nothing) 60 times per second or similar. Should someone determine that cap to be 120, drawing at 120Hz would make sense (but the cap is usually 60).
     
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  4. Old One Arcane

    Old One
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    In a turn-based game, one player or side or character takes a turn, then the next payer or side or character takes a turn. It has nothing to do with ticks or tocks or clocks.

    I get to act, then you get to act, then I get to act again, just like chess.
     
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  5. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    Turns can be resolved simultaneously. You both plan an action, then your actions get evaluated simultaneously. It is what Paradox uses and it's not that rare to see in other video games.
     
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  6. what am i doing Learned

    what am i doing
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    Paradox doesn't use that though since their games aren't played in turns.
     
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  7. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    I've already laid down my arguments for why I say they do. Provide some counter-arguments if you wish to prove me wrong, a "no u" wastes everyone's time at no benefit.
     
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  8. Wyatt_Derp Learned

    Wyatt_Derp
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    I *hits pause button* totally *hits pause button* agree but *hits pause button* you still need to *hits pause button* hit the pause button in order to *hits pause button* manage all the menus and give orders to your *hits pause button* units and icons.
     
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  9. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Except that you don't get to interrupt your resolution phase and change your orders on the fly trying to whack that enemy army that is always going to leave the target province a day before your army enters it.

    Talk to us again when Paradox games will ONLY allow you to hand out orders at midnight and prevent you from doing anything while the following day is being calculated.
     
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  10. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Codex can't understand simple concept like "turns" unless it has "end turn" button.
     
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  11. what am i doing Learned

    what am i doing
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    This is true if you're playing on speed 5 (or 4, depending on the game).
     
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  12. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Yea, everything is political and everything is turn-based!!111
     
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  13. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    Well, in EU4, that's what's happening, innit? You can't do anything between days. You give your orders on day 1, and right after you get day 2. Between those days, army moves get processed, battles go through a tick, event may or may not trigger depending on MTTH and their prerequisites... I'm not really sure what exactly you're trying to argue here, to be honest.
     
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  14. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    that sounds retarded
     
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  15. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    PDXCON stream:


    https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive

     
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  16. Fedora Master Arcane Patron

    Fedora Master
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    lmao that hair
     
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  17. janior Arcane

    janior
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    Romero Games will make you a game you can’t refuse… :lol::lol::lol:
     
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  18. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    World of Darkness segment now.

     
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  19. SkiNNyBane Learned Patron

    SkiNNyBane
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    120 Hz is for animation smoothness and more clear image when panning the map.
     
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  20. Old One Arcane

    Old One
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    Is Crusader Kings 3 going to be another DLC for Crusader Kings 2?
     
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  21. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker


     
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  22. Chaosdwarft Educated Patron

    Chaosdwarft
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    Well now we know.

    I feel like the Paradox I use to support back in EU2, CK1, Vic1, HOI2 is now truly DEAD; just like when Blizzard fused with Activation. It is just sad to see previously great "gem" companies turn into a sort of "abomination". I still feel like youtubers killed the EU franchise for me with their min/max philosophy. I always liked Paradox game for the role-playing aspect, country management and narratives you created in your head or in wonderful AARs. At least the modding scene is healthy and active, in my opinion, compared to other franchises.

    Maybe it's just nostalgia talking...:obviously:
     
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  23. Wyatt_Derp Learned

    Wyatt_Derp
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    To be fair to Paradox, they're not alone. Most strategy game companies that make historical games have steered away from real history or history character larping. Feature creep, DLCs, and certainly political correctness have turned the entire genre into a Saturday morning cartoon show.

    There's a few companies that do business with Matrix/Slitherine that stick to the tried and true, but they're becoming more and more obsolete as gamers want to play as dragon lords or transgendered wizards rather than Caesar, Napoleon, or Attila the Hun. Paradox has done away with Deus Vult. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they do away with the Crusades altogether. Then we can just fantasize that the Muslims and Christians had a thousand years of peace in the Holy Land (and the Pope can fly). Give it a few more years and they'll probably issue a statement saying that they're not going to focus on Europe history any more... due to the overuse of white privilege. Then we can enjoy a 3 game series based on early bronze age African tribes that lived in houses made out of elephant shit and conjured spells to ward off the evil spirits that dried out their watering hole.

    MAKE STRATEGY GAMES GREAT AGAIN - it needs to be a hat.
     
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  24. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/stellaris/paradox-consoles

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/crusader-kings-3/paradox-business-model

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/surviving-the-aftermath/valve-epic

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/cities-skylines/china

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/stellaris/cross-play

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/stellaris/mobile

     
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  25. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    That's what they deserve for outsourcing.
     
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