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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

HanoverF

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The Syndicate thing is kind of a mess. Look online for what each member will leave in which divisions safehouse, and try to stack them favorably when you gather enough intel to raid it. Ranks affect how good the safehouse reward the member has is I think? It wasn't really working when I stopped playing a few weeks back.
 

Saark

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For intervention its only the leader of the safehouse thats responsible for how good the rewards of each member of the safehouse are. As long as he is 3star, the rest can be 1star and you will still get the maximum rewards.
 

Gerrard

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The syndicate gank squad is exactly what open world PvP in an MMORPG is like.
 

Hobo Elf

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I really dislike interacting with this league's mechanic. It always feels like a chore but the rewards are decent enough still to entice me to do it (if only for the fat XP). Without using online guides it would take impossibly long to figure out where are all the members best suited to be for the greatest rewards. I don't really understand why they did this since in previous leagues, like the Delve, it's made really clear to the player where the rewards are and what are the pathways that you need to take to get to them.
 

Jaedar

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I really dislike interacting with this league's mechanic. It always feels like a chore but the rewards are decent enough still to entice me to do it (if only for the fat XP). Without using online guides it would take impossibly long to figure out where are all the members best suited to be for the greatest rewards. I don't really understand why they did this since in previous leagues, like the Delve, it's made really clear to the player where the rewards are and what are the pathways that you need to take to get to them.
I agree that this league is way too involved in the metagame aspect. Imo the best league they ever made incursion, because the decisions you took were always local and immediate.

Assuming that incursion is made permanent (it pretty much has to?), it's going to be even worse when you only interact with it every X maps.
 

frajaq

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I really like Betrayal if only so they added enemies with a bit of personality

This game has so much depth by now I can't imagine what the next league or 4.0 will look like
 

Gerrard

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The XP from the interaction is probably the best thing about the whole syndicate. They should still reduce gem XP requirements though, 19 to 20 being 2-3 times of 1 to 19 is fucking retarded.

I really dislike interacting with this league's mechanic. It always feels like a chore but the rewards are decent enough still to entice me to do it (if only for the fat XP). Without using online guides it would take impossibly long to figure out where are all the members best suited to be for the greatest rewards. I don't really understand why they did this since in previous leagues, like the Delve, it's made really clear to the player where the rewards are and what are the pathways that you need to take to get to them.
I agree that this league is way too involved in the metagame aspect. Imo the best league they ever made incursion, because the decisions you took were always local and immediate.

Assuming that incursion is made permanent (it pretty much has to?), it's going to be even worse when you only interact with it every X maps.
Incursion sucks now because you get up to 3 per map, but you can never get the same room more than once in those 3, the chances of getting a room to tier 3 are terrible.
 

Jaedar

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Incursion sucks now because you get up to 3 per map, but you can never get the same room more than once in those 3, the chances of getting a room to tier 3 are terrible.
Interesting and sad. I also noticed you get free door openings. I still prefer it to betrayal, delve or bestiary though.
 

T. Reich

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My experience with Betrayal mechanics is pretty amicable overall.

Yes, the overall rewards can be pretty hit-and-miss - but then again, this is in line with everything else in PoE.
However, even if you go "yolo" and stop giving a fuck about herding the "right" masters in the "right" departaments, you still get good rewards overall, provided you ***-rank most of them before hitting their safehouse.
And if you DO care about the whole maximising profit thing, it's not that hard if you put in just a bit of effort into learning the rewards and interactions.

On the difficulty of the encounters - yeah, they're not exactly friendly to bad builds or melee builds (is it the same thing these days? kappa). But then again, most of the endgame content is not freindly to those either. At theis point, it's not raging against league mechanics, it's raging against the game.
And most of the overtuned shit has been fixed by now, so you don't really see those week 1 unfair offscreen bullshit kills anymore. Every league since the very start had those things, so it's all par for the course.

Now, the Mastermind fight itself - that's the bullshit right there!
Takes entirely too long to grind just to get there, and then you're presented with the most overdesigned clusterfuck of a fight ever. It makes uber elder fight look clean.
Should you win - the rewards are kind of meh given the effort it requires from you.
And whether you win or lose, your entire progress with the syndicate is reset. Nasty.
 

Hobo Elf

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The meta for the Syndicate is to not do the Mastermind anyway, regardless of how poor the fight itself is. Just put all the members in their min-maxed corners and farm them for maximum profit while ignoring the Mastermind. Goes to show how "well" this entire league was designed.
 

Saark

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Only reason to do mastermind at this point is to get >ilvl75 weapons to unveil the +2 support gems mod.
 

T. Reich

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The meta for the Syndicate is to not do the Mastermind anyway, regardless of how poor the fight itself is. Just put all the members in their min-maxed corners and farm them for maximum profit while ignoring the Mastermind. Goes to show how "well" this entire league was designed.

If you're a meta slave, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 

Hobo Elf

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The meta for the Syndicate is to not do the Mastermind anyway, regardless of how poor the fight itself is. Just put all the members in their min-maxed corners and farm them for maximum profit while ignoring the Mastermind. Goes to show how "well" this entire league was designed.

If you're a meta slave, you have no one to blame but yourself.
The system is designed to be that way. It's a failure on GGG's part. Whether or not you partake in the meta is highly irrelevant to the fact that it sucks.
 

Saark

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So the league is badly designed because you can choose to run specific branches over and over again and have a choice of ~15-20 different high-value rewards depending on branch/member instead of just having 1 high-value final boss? You have the freedom to pick what might benefit your character the most, what might give the biggest currency return, or what might just be the most "fun". I'd argue that is actually very well designed.
And you'd prefer to just run the syndicate without any real impact but have the mastermind give better rewards? I honestly prefer the current way. Only "badly" designed part about it, is that most of the best rewards are research-branch ones, and that members like Vagan or Janus are pretty much useless in any branch.

Sounds like you're complaining about the syndicate process not being railroaded enough, I suppose you really enjoyed incursion then. Because Incursion had a lot of choices but almost all of them were incredibly inconsequential, the only thing people really cared about was locus of corruption and doryanis institute.
 

Hobo Elf

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So the league is badly designed because you can choose to run specific branches over and over again and have a choice of ~15-20 different high-value rewards depending on branch/member instead of just having 1 high-value final boss? You have the freedom to pick what might benefit your character the most, what might give the biggest currency return, or what might just be the most "fun". I'd argue that is actually very well designed.
And you'd prefer to just run the syndicate without any real impact but have the mastermind give better rewards? I honestly prefer the current way. Only "badly" designed part about it, is that most of the best rewards are research-branch ones, and that members like Vagan or Janus are pretty much useless in any branch.

Sounds like you're complaining about the syndicate process not being railroaded enough, I suppose you really enjoyed incursion then. Because Incursion had a lot of choices but almost all of them were incredibly inconsequential, the only thing people really cared about was locus of corruption and doryanis institute.

Yes, it's poorly designed because the best way to get rewards out of it is to game the system by farming the syndicate branches instead of hitting up the mastermind as is intended by GGG. And the only way you'll realistically know how to get these good rewards is to use online guides instead of in game knowledge.
 

T. Reich

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Yes, it's poorly designed because the best way to get rewards out of it is to game the system by farming the syndicate branches instead of hitting up the mastermind as is intended by GGG. And the only way you'll realistically know how to get these good rewards is to use online guides instead of in game knowledge.

Quote GGG on the bolded part, please.
 

Hobo Elf

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Yes, it's poorly designed because the best way to get rewards out of it is to game the system by farming the syndicate branches instead of hitting up the mastermind as is intended by GGG. And the only way you'll realistically know how to get these good rewards is to use online guides instead of in game knowledge.

Quote GGG on the bolded part, please.
Are you naturally this stupid, or does it come with practice? Why the fuck would they bother to implement systems in the game if they were meant to be ignored :lol:. This is what you actually believe. Building up mastermind intel and killing the big boss is what the entire Syndicate mechanic builds up to. It shouldn't take a high IQ to understand this.
 

Saark

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The system is clearly intended to be used in different ways, depending on what the player wants out of the system. Want a specific reward? Go set it up and get it. Thats a well designed system, because it gives the player a choice, which is what most of GGGs core-systems in any temporary leagues have generally been about. And if you don't care about minmaximg, you can just kill the mastermind and get results too. It just won't be as profitable/rewarding as people who actually put the time and resources into it to make sure that they "game" the system. If that's not well designed, I don't know what is. The system isn't perfect of course, it has members that are basically useless in any branch in terms of rewards, and it took GGG a bit to make the mastermind rewarding enough by adding 4 chests with stuff from the current branch leaders in addition to the regular mastermind rewards.

I don't know about you, but I for one am happy that some of this includes trial and error. Playing the game, writing down what each member/branch combination does, having community work done to compile all that information for people who want to min-max. This is literally what most people come to the codex for, because we appreciate the fact that RPGs are supposed to give the player choice - and consequences. Right now you're basically complaining that having multiple dialogue-options with difference consequences is a bad thing, especially when the "easiest" solution that requires the least effort and time/resources spent isn't the most profitable/efficient or doesnt get you the results you want, while exploring the system would give you the exact results you would want.

I would understand if what you were saying was that the amount of time it requires to gather all that information yourself is too much, but you're calling it a badly designed system which in my mind is just not true. You're really just complaining about having to play the game instead of just being spoon-fed the best reward by running through the neatly-designed straight corridor instead of considering all the other side-options for potentially better/different outcomes. I thought this place appreciated choices, consequences and non-linear design in their gaming systems.

In any case, if this really bugs you and you can't be bothered to find any of the dozens of sheets/images that compiled that information ~2days into the league already, just go here and everyones problems will be solved.
 

Hobo Elf

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I would understand if what you were saying was that the amount of time it requires to gather all that information yourself is too much, but you're calling it a badly designed system which in my mind is just not true. You're really just complaining about having to play the game instead of just being spoon-fed the best reward by running through the neatly-designed straight corridor instead of considering all the other side-options for potentially better/different outcomes.
That's not playing the game, that's bringing an otherwise fast paced action RPG into a grinding halt, if you choose to get the most out of it. It doesn't mesh well with the type of game that PoE is.

I thought this place appreciated choices, consequences and non-linear design in their gaming systems.
The consequences here are inferior loot to superior loot. Syndicate members have places where they are best suited for maximum gains and while others can have mediocre placements, some are just clearly gimping yourself. If you like the choices to be between "do I screw myself over or not", then, yeah, not really into that myself. In a single player game it matters less as you may pick a choice that interests you narratively, but in an online game where you are competing with other players to amass wealth to gain more power to progress it becomes a different matter entirely. If the consequences were more even then it'd be a less of a problem.
 

Saark

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You are making a choice to compete "with other players to amass wealth to gain more power". Not everyone plays the game that way. In fact, a minority does. This isn't the goal of the game, even though you might think it is. By choosing that goal, you limit yourself in how you can approach certain mechanics inside the game, even though the game gives you a lot more choices, and most system inside the game support that complexity.

GGG could force a specific type of gameplay onto you, both mechanically speaking and narratively, but they don't. The "everyone plays the speed meta and just amasses currency" meta is in your head, not in the game. Sure, some people play the game like that, but to what end? To have fun? People have fun in different ways. People reach uber-elder in different ways. People hit lv100 in different ways.
PoE gives you the freedom to choose whatever the fuck you want, and then hands you tools to accomplish those goals. Syndicate as a temp-league complements that design decision. You can go for the maximum currency profit, but that's not really fun and compelling gameplay for the majority of the playerbase. Instead they give you dozens of tools to craft items, improve your atlas, or just flip items by increasing their value through white sockets/quality improvements etc. All of which have their own reward, have tangible effects on individual character progression that goes beyond amassing currency and ultimately give you more than one choice - all of which I'd consider good design.

That's not playing the game, that's bringing an otherwise fast paced action RPG into a grinding halt, if you choose to get the most out of it. It doesn't mesh well with the type of game that PoE is.
I guess those 1-2 seconds it takes to recall/look up what each member does per branch really "grinds the game to a halt". I guess we're just playing different games then, because for me that barely takes any time at all. If you don't know what each member does, this late into the league, you might wanna reconsider your approach to being "the fastest/wealthiest" and actually learn the game mechanics you seem to be complaining about.

The consequences here are inferior loot to superior loot. Syndicate members have places where they are best suited for maximum gains and while others can have mediocre placements, some are just clearly gimping yourself. If you like the choices to be between "do I screw myself over or not", then, yeah, not really into that myself.
As I already mentioned, members like Vagan or Janus certainly need a buff, but most other members have multiple good spots you can put them in. Only other member who really only matters in a single branch is Vorici. And you can still choose between farming a specific branch, or farming multiple ones, which changes what members you put into which branch.
In a single player game it matters less as you may pick a choice that interests you narratively, but in an online game where you are competing with other players to amass wealth to gain more power to progress it becomes a different matter entirely. If the consequences were more even then it'd be a less of a problem.
Again, that is your way to play the game, I think most people would disagree with your definition of "the goal of the game". If you really only care about amassing wealth and gaining more power, what are you doing playing non-Delve content anyway? Because Delve still is by far the most profitable game-content and it doesn't even have syndicate members.
 

HanoverF

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You are making a choice to compete "with other players to amass wealth to gain more power". Not everyone plays the game that way. In fact, a minority does. This isn't the goal of the game, even though you might think it is. By choosing that goal, you limit yourself in how you can approach certain mechanics inside the game, even though the game gives you a lot more choices, and most system inside the game support that complexity.

GGG could force a specific type of gameplay onto you, both mechanically speaking and narratively, but they don't. The "everyone plays the speed meta and just amasses currency" meta is in your head, not in the game. Sure, some people play the game like that, but to what end? To have fun? People have fun in different ways. People reach uber-elder in different ways. People hit lv100 in different ways.
PoE gives you the freedom to choose whatever the fuck you want, and then hands you tools to accomplish those goals. Syndicate as a temp-league complements that design decision. You can go for the maximum currency profit, but that's not really fun and compelling gameplay for the majority of the playerbase. Instead they give you dozens of tools to craft items, improve your atlas, or just flip items by increasing their value through white sockets/quality improvements etc. All of which have their own reward, have tangible effects on individual character progression that goes beyond amassing currency and ultimately give you more than one choice - all of which I'd consider good design.

That's not playing the game, that's bringing an otherwise fast paced action RPG into a grinding halt, if you choose to get the most out of it. It doesn't mesh well with the type of game that PoE is.
I guess those 1-2 seconds it takes to recall/look up what each member does per branch really "grinds the game to a halt". I guess we're just playing different games then, because for me that barely takes any time at all. If you don't know what each member does, this late into the league, you might wanna reconsider your approach to being "the fastest/wealthiest" and actually learn the game mechanics you seem to be complaining about.

The consequences here are inferior loot to superior loot. Syndicate members have places where they are best suited for maximum gains and while others can have mediocre placements, some are just clearly gimping yourself. If you like the choices to be between "do I screw myself over or not", then, yeah, not really into that myself.
As I already mentioned, members like Vagan or Janus certainly need a buff, but most other members have multiple good spots you can put them in. Only other member who really only matters in a single branch is Vorici. And you can still choose between farming a specific branch, or farming multiple ones, which changes what members you put into which branch.
In a single player game it matters less as you may pick a choice that interests you narratively, but in an online game where you are competing with other players to amass wealth to gain more power to progress it becomes a different matter entirely. If the consequences were more even then it'd be a less of a problem.
Again, that is your way to play the game, I think most people would disagree with your definition of "the goal of the game". If you really only care about amassing wealth and gaining more power, what are you doing playing non-Delve content anyway? Because Delve still is by far the most profitable game-content and it doesn't even have syndicate members.

V0l2ZSW.gif
 

T. Reich

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Hobo Elf you sound like a typicel PoE reddit cuck.
Care to prove me wrong? Post your league progress so far.

Saark If I understand the breakdown of veiled mods correctly (currently trying to unlock them all), Vagan actually has a hidden lottery ticket provided you keep him long enough - the coveted "hits can't be evaded" mod. This mod alone is worth keeping Vagan around, IF it's Vagan's signature veiled mod.

Janus for me is still dumpster-tier, because I'm not sure if he has any hidden value at all.
But I'd still pick him over Elreon (he's probably useful in SSF) and Guff (fick his timed crafting bullshit!).

P.S.: that's another interesting mode of play - do not do any safehouses unless REALLY valuable, and just reap the rewards from the basic syndicate encounters by beatinh down groups of higher tier members.
 

Saark

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At this point I just assume that all the "speedmeta" or "efficiency!!!" people barely have 50ex in currency/items to their name and regurgitate whatever it is some streamer said or what the reddit circlejerk currently thinks is wrong with the game, when what they talk/complain about really isn't something they should be concerned about.
 

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