Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[kelkorkesis]

If you want good defenses on any build you sprinkle single level of monk and 2 levels of paladin on it. Here are some examples

Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Knife Master Rogue 4/ Slayer 12
This is a dex based crit fisher build. You turn into a blender and you deal a lot of damage with sneak attacks and crits, also your crits fuel outflank and sieze the moment procs for your other melee characters.

Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Two Handed Fighter 16
You have acess to best monk robe (+5 dodge bonus to AC), cha to AC (from monk), cha to saves (from paladin 2, this is default cut off point from paladin), immunity to diseases and fear (from paladin 3, not necessary but I like it). Until you get stat boosting items you rock that fullplate armour, then you switch to robes (yes even with a STR based character) for much higher AC. It is a very simple build, you hit and stuff dies.

Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Bard 2 (Archaeologist for uncanny dodge probably)/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Two Handed Fighter 10
A variant of previous build. Extra STR, bite attack, and natural armour from Dragon Disciple. Access to mirror image thanks to bard casting.

Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Fighter 2/ Rogue 4/ Duelist 10
If you want a low maintenance character with highest defenses try this. If something can hit this run.

Monk (Scaled fist if you want CHA focus instead of WIS) 1/ Sword Saint 19
Lower saves because no divine grace from Paladin but high AC becomes online much earlier. It crits really really hard. Also has access to Mirror Image. You can also kill swarm with this (not on early game) if you slap several elemental weapon enchantments to your weapon with Arcane Pool easily. You can be STR or DEX based depending on your preference.

Note: Dex builds inherently have higher defenses thanks to higher touch AC. STR based characters will have higher damage potential because size increase.

I am not sure how you'll deal with some of the monsters like the swarms in melee

If your weapon have any elemental damage enchantment you can still deal damage to them. Torches also work. Or you can just use Jubilost. He obliterates them.

 

[ga♥]

The end area has been hugely nerfed Xeon, and the new dungeon is nothing extreme.

If you play on hard I suggest you make a merc cleric or Erastil, or make your char a cleric as companions suck in the role.

 

[Xeon]

Man, thank you very much kelkorkesis, that's a lot of suggestions so that's pretty nice.

 

[Haplo]

You don't really need the Paladin dip if you have strong Fortitude and Will saves. Reflex never caused me too much trouble (and you can be easily immune to the more annoying effects with Freedom).
I tend to prefer decent Wis and Traditional Monk dip for good Will save (which kinda balances itself with Divine Grace with high Cha but sucky Wis and Scaled Fist dip with no Will bonus - and I avoid the Paladin levels sacrifice).

 

[jungl]

What the enemies should do is coup de grace your ass when your character fall unconscious and cause a party wide fear affect. I remember in neverwinter games die hard feats were useful and there even greater version of them but here they made the feat something you don't want to have which makes no sense.

 

[Yosharian]

Paladin 3 is absolutely not worth it. Pal 2 is OK.

 

[kelkorkesis]

You don't really need the Paladin dip if you have strong Fortitude and Will saves

I agree. In my recent playthrough my frontline was Amiri, Regongar and Valerie and as expected none of them had paladin levels. But if you want high defenses and you are already a LG character might dip paladin as well for Divine Grace.

Paladin 3 is absolutely not worth it. Pal 2 is OK.

Absolutely. If I want to add something extra to any builds with I wrote above I would remove third level of Paladin without a heartbeat. For example

Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Two Handed Fighter 16

You can do Scaled Fist 2/ Paladin 2/ THF 16 here and get an extra feat (a spot opened by grabbing blindfight from monk 2). But I like the idea of disease and fear immunity, and I was glad having that when boggards were terrifying everyone on my frontline but my Paladin.

 

[kelkorkesis]

So, I was browsing Nexus for mods and saw this mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/96

This mod allows you play gestalt characters. What is gestalt you might ask. It is an alternative level progression which you pick 2 classes on a single level up. You get abilities of both classes and highest of the skill points, BAB and saves. It is very similar to ad&d multiclassing. Check following link for more info
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

I want to start a gestalt campaign with only part of 3 (mc and 2 companions). I have several build ideas but I wonder if anyone has interesting concept that couldn't fit a vanilla playthrough.

Some simple examples:

Druid 20/ Monk 20 : Wildshape suddenly become very very dangerous
Cleric 20/ Fighter 20: This is what you actually want from Crusader Cleric Archetype
Wizard 20/ Monk 20: This is a classic from pnp, it gives a pretty good chasis upgrade to Wizard and increases potential form of the dragon spells very much.

Or you can channel your inner InEffect and slap Vivsectionist 20 to any build you use.

 

[Cael]

So, I was browsing Nexus for mods and saw this mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/96

This mod allows you play gestalt characters. What is gestalt you might ask. It is an alternative level progression which you pick 2 classes on a single level up. You get abilities of both classes and highest of the skill points, BAB and saves. It is very similar to ad&d multiclassing. Check following link for more info
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

I want to start a gestalt campaign with only part of 3 (mc and 2 companions). I have several build ideas but I wonder if anyone has interesting concept that couldn't fit a vanilla playthrough.

Some simple examples:

Druid 20/ Monk 20 : Wildshape suddenly become very very dangerous
Cleric 20/ Fighter 20: This is what you actually want from Crusader Cleric Archetype
Wizard 20/ Monk 20: This is a classic from pnp, it gives a pretty good chasis upgrade to Wizard and increases potential form of the dragon spells very much.

Or you can channel your inner InEffect and slap Vivsectionist 20 to any build you use.

Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.

 

[Jarpie]

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?

 

[Cael]

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?

Yes. However, the way XP was structured in AD&D meant that you are actually only about 2-3 levels behind at most, so gestalt is closer to it than the rest of 3.x.

 

[kelkorkesis]

Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.

Monk gestalt is for mostly simple chasis upgrade. All good saves, full BAB some neat abilities and extra feats here and there. You will also likely get some WIS (or CHA) to AC since +8 stat items and +2 Bokken potion to boost all your stats by +10.

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?

Yes. 3.5 Gestalt is a little bit different though. Everyone in the party plays gestalt characters (There is not really a choice to stay single class and boost your exp gain) and you don't really divide exp.

 

[Cael]

Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.

Monk gestalt is for mostly simple chasis upgrade. All good saves, full BAB some neat abilities and extra feats here and there. You will also likely get some WIS (or CHA) to AC since +8 stat items and +2 Bokken potion to boost all your stats by +10.

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?

Yes. 3.5 Gestalt is a little bit different though. Everyone in the party plays gestalt characters (There is not really a choice to stay single class and boost your exp gain) and you don't really divide exp.

I played gestalt characters before. Trust me, get a character that don't have MAD, even with stat boosting gear. My Wiz/Sorc hurt with the Int and Cha requirements.

Gestalt is meant for a lower than average player count (i.e., less than 4). It is NOT meant to boost XP. It is to help ensure there is no party wipe even with normal CR-appropriate creatures. Trying to make anything else out of it is verging on munchkinism.

 

[kelkorkesis]

Trying to make anything else out of it is verging on munchkinism

I would like to do some munchkinism in single player games. That way I can play with broken stuff without ruining anyone's campaign.

 

[Cael]

Trying to make anything else out of it is verging on munchkinism

I would like to do some munchkinism in single player games. That way I can play with broken stuff without ruining anyone's campaign.

If that is the case, just mod NWN2 and make Dragon Disciple into a full casting, full BAB class that you can get into using any base class at level 2. Do the same for Warpriest and Eldritch Knight, and you are set.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame? My MC is maxing out at around +15 Initiative and I'm wondering if that's enough by itself to never be flat-footed in combat. Thus, I wouldn't need Uncanny Dodge.

Looking at Wild Hunt Scouts/Archers on the wiki they appear to have +13 Initiative (what the fuck) so it sounds as if I still need Uncanny Dodge if I don't want to get ripped apart in the first round.

Thoughts?

 

[Daidre]

Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame?

Picture from my old post.

On Hard +20 and more is possible on endgame enemies.
IMHO, relying on initiative to avoid flat-footed on tank is really bad strategy - enemy's huge bonuses to Initiative from the stats are too high to reliably keep up with them as game progress.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame?

Picture from my old post.

On Hard +20 and more is possible on endgame enemies.
IMHO, relying on initiative to avoid flat-footed on tank is really bad strategy - enemy's huge bonuses to Initiative from the stats are too high to reliably keep up with them as game progress.

Damn. Oh well. Thanks for the info.

 

[Yosharian]

Fuck's sake! I only just realised that the game isn't automatically switching one-handed weapons to two-handed when the off-hand is free. So Estoc for example is garbage if you're trying to two-hand it while being strength-focused. Godammit Owlcat.

While we're on the subject of weapons, why does Ovinrbaane STILL not force you to make Will saves each round in combat like the description states?

 

[Haplo]

It is switching stances. Try disabling Spell Combat maybe?
Or maybe it doesn't work for Finesse weapons? It should not work for Light weapons, but estoc should not be classified as such.

 

[Trashos]

I am trying to design a Dex Sword Saint: Human SS19/TradMonk1

I am going to be using Scimitars, and I need some help with what works and what doesn't for this build.

- Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?
- Does Piranha Strike work in my case?

(Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.)

 

[kelkorkesis]

Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?

This combination changes any slashing one-handed weapon to finessable one (even if it is not finessable) in this game. You can go for longswords, bastard swords or falcatas also. It would be best for you to go falcata though. Not many weapon beats Lion's Claw for crit fishing.

Does Piranha Strike work in my case

Don't. Even if you fall for spellstrike meme you will strike with two hand most of the time.

This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

Piranha strike lacks this line from power attack and it is inferior. Grab power attack with help of a stat item.

Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.

Not really different than STR variant, you just pay 2 feat tax to become dex based.

 

[Trashos]

This combination changes any slashing one-handed weapon to finessable one (even if it is not finessable) in this game. You can go for longswords, bastard swords or falcatas also. It would be best for you to go falcata though. Not many weapon beats Lion's Claw for crit fishing.

The reason that I have chosen Scimitar so far is that it has a smooth progression throughout, as evidenced in my previous playthroughs. In my current (Wizard) playthrough, I am taking down detailed notes for the progression of all weapons throughout the game. If the weapons you are mentioning prove to progress smoothly, I may rethink it. (This is also why I am not considering Estocs, for example. Terrible progression.)

Don't. Even if you fall for spellstrike meme you will strike with two hand most of the time.

My mind was just blown.

I am planning around not using spellstrike. But OK, I need help with this, this is so confusing.

- Fundamentally, I will be a 1-handed DEX melee. Do DEX melees attack with both hands? I know STR melees do, but DEX?!

- Also, Power Attack needs STR, which I am planning to neglect.

- I did not expect to hear that Power Attack works in combination with Slashing Grace. Are we sure about this?

- Even if I did not completely neglect STR and could take Power Attack, I would still have much greater DEX than STR, since DEX is my main attribute. Is Power Attack still superior?

 

[Parabalus]

If you go for dueling sword you save a feat and get an early +5.

 

[Trashos]

Parabalus, I know Dueling Swords have a very good progression, but their other bonuses look underwhelming to me (unless I failed to pay attention to a really good one somewhere). +5 where?! I have not used them this far and I do not remember it. Are you sure?