Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

On my first playthrough of the game and I'm using the Tripping Biting Vivisectionist thinger that Haplo made.

My question is, what's the strategy for this? You enter combat, down your Mutagen and then go to town. But then the fights over and you're out of Mutagens. Do you just rest until you have more then continue?

 

You have a single mutagen, but it lasts 10 minutes/level. Except for the very few first levels, it should last enough to complete a very big area/dungeon.

Even when you don't have your mutagen, the character is still far from useless, you definitely don't need to rest only because you're out of it.

You also have extracts: they last less, but you have more uses. At first, you can use them before big fights, but after a while their duration will be enough to last an entire area and you can use them like the mutagen.

 

Try not to use Mutagen for tiny areas (unless you need to due to difficulty). After level 4 or so Mutagen should last you trough all of the big ones.

 

Thank you both.

 

Haplo I was curious reading your two builds (STR Saint and Vivi trip) about if the Vivi trip build can tank for the group as well as a Sword Saint can? Because so far my main tank is sword saint str with a monk dip obviously and planning him to be just auto attacker who uses spells to self-buff (so no shock, do not use EA). Maybe down the road I should think of dipping him more with 2 pally for saves not sure. People keep mentioning Rogue/Bard too for Uncanny Dodge but as Saint I have improved initiative think no.

So all in all I wasn't sure, if I am not just shutting myself in the leg and if Vivi would tank as well as Saint here. Because I would welcome mutagen and more feats.

 

If by "can tank" you mean "can stand in the middle of the enemies without being hit", the answer is yes, it can. With Mage Armor (later Bracers of Armor), Shield, Barkskin, Magical Vestment and the mutagen, you can reach without problems an AC so high that very few enemies will hit on anything but a natural 20 (if you go for a Dexterity-based Vivisectionist, your AC will be even higher). You will obviously miss out on Mirror Image (and that's a big downside), but you can finish the game nonetheless without too much problems.

 

A traditional tank without Mirror Image will be a problem (if you're trying to solo for instance). 1 out of 20 chance of death ain't nothing, and on Unfair there are things that can one-shot you without necessarily critting. But Hap's builds aren't traditional tanks. You kill/Trip shit before they get many attacks in and should have a good supporting cast to help as well. This isn't a tank, spank, and heal kind of game.

Monk splash is far from obvious. You only get the benefit after you attack (this is big without Uncanny Dodge) and it's only defensive. The build is about offense. Monk splash is only good if you're using CHR/WIS to AC.

On Vivi it isn't good enough and on Sword Saint it isn't necessary.

 

Well, sword saint str would certainly benefit of the monk level as I have high charisma (MC - roleplay). Although I wanted to go high Wis (backstory for my MC) and that would also benefit me with will saves. Dex sword saint does not need it that much I would say.

When we are talking about Dex, I wanted to ask, if Dex to dmg (Be it rogue 3lvs or that magus feat slashing) does change 1.5 str modifier on 2h to 1.5 dex modifier or not. If somebody tried it?

 

Main problem for DEX is you lose out on Enlarge. Every level of SS is OP. Don’t waste one one a few AC you don’t need (Monk splash).

 

I mean I play on hard and he is the tank. Still getting hit though .... I respected Amiri to mad dog ... she just needs to do one charge and kill them but with turn based mod I am realizing that Initiative on tank is important ....

Also Enlarge and Legendary proportion is amazing but dex scion just loses ton of damage while not being that much tankier. Read somewhere some calculation from Haplo and In effect regarding it.

 

Yes, play STR-based with Shield and Image and have someone who can get you a max Barkskin and Shield of Faith and you should be good.

There are a couple mobs where it’s just easier to control/distract than straight up tank. If you try to constrict yourself to tank those few you’ll end up gimping your build.

I play on Hard and test on Unfair.

 

Okay, a traditional tank without Mirror Image is a problem if you are trying to solo on unfair, fine. He is not trying to solo on unfair, so I think we can agree that's completely irrelevant. Also, unless we are talking about the very first few levels, it's definitely not 1 out of 20 chance of death, not even close.

If your point is that it's impossible to finish the game on hard if your tank doesn't have Mirror Image, you are wrong. It's a great spell and it's my favorite defensive buff, but it's not absolutely necessary. My last playthrough was on hard, not a single character ever casted Mirror Image and it wasn't a problem at all.

 

Yes, that is what I just said. Glad we’re in agreement. Don’t try to tank and spank*, but if you do use Image. It's not completely irrelevant for that, it's nearly mandatory unless you're planning to do a lot of reloading/rezzing. It's handy to have on other melee toons but far from necessary there.

Greater Zombie Giants will one shot you on Unfair, and there are plenty of things that can get you close enough to be a problem.

* - kill fast with everyone, even casters, able to do solid damage/tank with summons/use difficult terrain to control battlefield

 

Well I am trying to make 4 man party but still deciding on the best party compositions (hired or respected companions). Figured SS would be tank of the party then I would need some solid dps and then divine and arcane caster?

 

I like to have Bard for Good Hope, Inspire Courage, and Dirge of Doom; Alchemist for Infusions/Barkskins and Touch damage/debuff bombs, Freebooter for Bane and Bond + Combat Style Feats (Cleave line is strongest), and Cleric for Archon’s Aura (Harrim also gives you Destructive Aura and Touch of Chaos, Tristian has Touch of Good) and Channeling for easy healing after combat.

Necessity in that order.

As we’ve said, you don’t need a tank. Tank, spank, and heal isn’t a thing. It’s one of the main features of the game (to subvert that and open up more interesting possibilities).

 

'Tank' can be misleading, but you definitely need someone who has good AC, and it's preferable for him to have good saves, too

 

hope that mobs in wrath will use dispel, that will trash 99% of the tank builds.

 

That’s true of all front line melee. The expectation that you’ll have one invulnerable dude catching all aggro is largely mistaken. You can use a solo build to sort of do that, but it kind of misses the point of the game.

Much easier to just have whole team with reasonable AC/saves and solid damage/control to get full benefit from strong group dynamics. Mirror Image (and Displacement for harder fights) becomes more valuable with that approach to cover your ass.

 

No, the Vivi build certainly cannot tank as well as the Sword Saint. Not till late levels, anyway. He's built in a way that does let him facetank end-game (he stacks those OP Monk bonuses with nifty Mutagen and dragon bonuses, eventually gets Uncanny Dodge from Archeologist Bard and Mirror Image). Well, except the dispelling ghosts and mandragora swarms, be wary of those.

Sword Saint can facetank content starting at level 5 or so... (though initially buff durations are a limitation).

 

Picking Charisma over Wisdom is problematic IMO. I consider a strong Will save to be very important.

Not sure now about 1.5x Dex mod on elven curved blades. Might be that it works. If it does, its certainly only for ECBs, which sucks.

In general one of the biggest, multiplicative damage improvements comes from weapon damage dice. Desiderius mentioned Enlarge. In order to achieve good damage, even Dex builds should be using Legendary Proportions and a weapon with solid damage dice (minimum d8) past mid-game. This is a bit counter-intuitive, as you'd be debuffing your AB with that spell as a Dex build. But the increase in damage dice is still worth it (plus the nifty reach).

 

i can confirm that 1.5 dex to dmg can be done with 3 rogue lvls, it was changed in the enhanced edition if i remember correctly.

 

Right. So can't use it with Slashing/Fencing Grace - not a good solution for a Dex Sword Saint.

 

i think you can? slashing adds the to hit from dex and the lvls of rogue the dmg.
aldori swordlords who can 1.5 dex to dmg can also use slasing grace.

 

Slashing / Fencing Grace needs a free offhand AFAIK.

 

Hi everyone. I'm finishing my first playthrough and think about starting another one with turn based mod for a bit of tactical depth.

And I want to make Amiri into Vital striker / support, something like Reckless stance barbarian / freebooter. So the question is what the build should look like and does it need overhand chop or Sword Saint 4? Maybe something else I missed?