Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Parabalus]

Parabalus
Or just go pure vivisectionist. The ability to buff your party with the alchemist "spells" (which you can do as soon as you pick the infusion feat) outweights the benefits of a fighter/rogue, imo. Unless you plan to play solo, that is. (And tbh, I can't think of any downsides to the alchemist class.)

Vivisectionists have less skill points than rogues though. My main concern is getting all that I can here, I also lose Trapfinding for the perception bonus.

Then go Indiana Jones, all skills plus high charisma plus the luck buff.

Issue is Archaeologist are garbage in combat, no?
And PF:KM is supposedly the toughest RPG in the last 20 years, else I would go 7/7/7/20/12/18 gladly . I get they are casters, but there also seem to be severe rest/time restrictions in PF, makes me hesitant.

How does human rogue x / vivi 1 / fighter 1 with 12/20/8/16/8/10 seem?

 

[vazha]

Just noticed that unlike other prestige classes, like EK and DD, arcane trickster doesn't get an effective spellcasting level, just spells per day. Makes it slightly less tempting for a sorcerer build.

 

[hell bovine]

Parabalus
It's not that difficult unless you play on hard or higher, it's rather that nowadays players are not used to the idea that on a multiple choice map, there can be areas you are meant to come back later (think vampiric wolves near Beregost in BG). So you get a lot of complaints about difficulty. That and some random encounters are bonkers (which is a valid complaint, on the other hand). There is one route on the map that routinely spams epic enemies for my party, e.g. elder elementals while everyone was level 2.

Regarding skill checks, I don't see the point of having everything on one character, unless you solo. You can't save-reload everything in PK; certain dialogue options seem to display only if you succeed the check. If you fail, you won't even know there was something. At which point consider whether having these extra points is worth losing your party the infused buffs from the alchemist, for example. That said, all sneakers are useful because of how easy it is to get sneak attacks, and how very few enemies are immune. Even a pure rogue will work.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Just noticed that unlike other prestige classes, like EK and DD, arcane trickster doesn't get an effective spellcasting level, just spells per day. Makes it slightly less tempting for a sorcerer build.

wut? If AT wouldn't normally advance casting progression it would be utter crap as a prestige class with its 2/4 BAB, AT gets full 10/10 caster progression.

 

[vazha]

it gets spell progression, but not spellcasting lvl / class related spell penetration. for example, you can cast high lvl spells but when casting spells that calculate damage per lvl, youre treated as having the same lvl as your other previous class.
respecced octavia when i discovered this

 

[Elex]

Game didn't implement arrows :D

hurricane bow, enlarge person, devourer of metal and you shoot directly the tree of the barony.

 

[Luckmann]

Except, of course, casting spells.

Not only that, EK is full BAB, Magus only 3/4 BAB. Magus arcane pool fueled abilities last for 1 round typically (lol) until you finally get the ability to spend 2 points to make it last 1min per lvl. Then look at the size of the pool to realize you won't be using that stuff a lot. And... spellcasting is definitely much, much weaker. Otoh you have to wait quite some time before you can take EK levels.

Weapon enhancement lasts for a minute from the start. It easily compensates for the lag in BAB progression. I use it almost constantly.

If you want level 9 spells with Eldritch Knight, you’ll also need 7 levels of wizard, which erases most of the BAB advantage anyway. Wiz 7/Fighter1/EK10 has a BAB of 14 (good luck hitting level 20 in this game!). Magus 18 has a BAB of 13 and has 9 + INT bonus in his arcane pool to juice his weapons or recall spells or use any of the shorter term abilities.

As for the extra spells, an Eldritch Knight sure needs them! Once your Magus hits level 7 and can wear medium armor, he requires a lot less self buffing, to say nothing of heavy armor at level 11. The Magus is much less of a glass cannon.

For his tenth level ability, the Eldritch Knight can... basically perform spell combat on criticals. Which is nice, but a Magus can do that from level 1, at any time. When a Magus crits with his weapon using spellstrike, his spells crit, too. EK has nothing like that. And when your level 5 Magus can make his weapon Keen, that happens often, especially with a scimitar or an estoc (15-20 critical threat range!).

EK feels like less than the sum of its parts to me, at least in this particular CRPG. Sure, you get more spells and more fighter feats and a slightly higher BAB, but these abilities have less synergy. The Magus’ abilities compound in a way the Eldritch Knight’s don’t.

I think they are just very different in appeal and function. Eldritch Knights are essentially full arcane casters that take on some combative aspects for utility and survivability, whereas Magi are full-package gishes meant to take a sustainable martial role, but with considerably less real casting.

 

[Elex]

it gets spell progression, but not spellcasting lvl / class related spell penetration. for example, you can cast high lvl spells but when casting spells that calculate damage per lvl, youre treated as having the same lvl as your other previous class.
respecced octavia when i discovered this

well the point of AT in P:K is to increase the number of sneak attack you can deliver (and change the damage tipe of the sneak attack).

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

VentilatorOfDoom your arcane pool gets 1 point every other level + your INT bonus. So at level 8 right now, I have 10 (18 INT with a + 4 INT headband). That’s ten one-minute long uses of the +2 enhancement, going to +3 at level 9. I usually give myself keen or 1d6 elemental damage instead.

Just for the record I just checked this in game and arcane accuracy costs one point and buffs your AB for a whopping 6s, i.e. exactly 1 round.
So... nothing with 1 min. Unless there's a feat or something that I'm missing that makes it last 1min.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

it gets spell progression, but not spellcasting lvl / class related spell penetration. for example, you can cast high lvl spells but when casting spells that calculate damage per lvl, youre treated as having the same lvl as your other previous class.
respecced octavia when i discovered this

I mean... this has to be a bug, right? I doubt that this is intended.

 

[panda]

VentilatorOfDoom your arcane pool gets 1 point every other level + your INT bonus. So at level 8 right now, I have 10 (18 INT with a + 4 INT headband). That’s ten one-minute long uses of the +2 enhancement, going to +3 at level 9. I usually give myself keen or 1d6 elemental damage instead.

Just for the record I just checked this in game and arcane accuracy costs one point and buffs your AB for a whopping 6s, i.e. exactly 1 round.
So... nothing with 1 min. Unless there's a feat or something that I'm missing that makes it last 1min.

You are talking about different things. He ment weapon enchantment.
And those 1 round arcana are godsend for kensai. Oh, you have +12 dex bonus? lolwut mate, where are they now? Meet 66 AC dragon? Just remove 33 AC from natural armor and kill him in 3-4 rounds.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You are talking about different things. He ment weapon enchantment.
And those 1 round arcana are godsend for kensai. Oh, you have +12 dex bonus? lolwut mate, where are they now? Meet 66 AC dragon? Just remove 33 AC from natural armor and kill him in 3-4 rounds.

Ah I see, you're right there are two different skills.

 

[vazha]

I mean... this has to be a bug, right? I doubt that this is intended.

on the other hand, AT is making pure wizards and sorcerers totally obsolete if its indeed a bug and will be remedied. I mean why would I go full wizard if I get everything that wiz gets and shitload of skills/uberpowered feats for the price of one vivi/rogue dip?

 

[Serus]

Also make a lvl 16 character unless you plan to play solo. People are finishing the game with lvl 16 parties.

I saw people on Steam reporting finishing the game at level 17. It might be different depending on your party and with new hotfixes, as they hunt more bugs in later chapters, it is possible that some additional quests are becoming finishable and providing with additional exp that wasn't there a few hotfixes ago. Just speculating here of curse - except that level 17 on steam.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I checked with Octavia and it looks like only damage dice are affected, duration works normally with wizard levels + AT levels.

 

[Jaedar]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

 

[Serus]

Parabalus
Or just go pure vivisectionist. The ability to buff your party with the alchemist "spells" (which you can do as soon as you pick the infusion feat) outweights the benefits of a fighter/rogue, imo. Unless you plan to play solo, that is. (And tbh, I can't think of any downsides to the alchemist class.)

Assuming we talk archers here You still might consider 1 level of fighter. It's worth 2 feats at least (vivisectionist don't have longbows proficiency) which means you can get the important archery feats online faster. Might be worth 1 level delay of vivisectionist abilities. And then maybe not.
The optimum would be to go Elf, the perfect stats increases for archer vivi (DEX + INT) and has longbow proficiency. But then the Elf model in game is... not that good if you care about looks.

 

[hell bovine]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

Your alchemist is not casting anything, he's just being friendly and passing the bottle around.

 

[Elex]

Also make a lvl 16 character unless you plan to play solo. People are finishing the game with lvl 16 parties.

I saw people on Steam reporting finishing the game at level 17. It might be different depending on your party and with new hotfixes, as they hunt more bugs in later chapters, it is possible that some additional quests are becoming finishable and providing with additional exp that wasn't there a few hotfixes ago. Just speculating here of curse - except that level 17 on steam.

certain skill check give tons of xp

 

[Jaedar]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

Your alchemist is not casting anything, he's just being friendly and passing the bottle around.

Well yeah it makes sense in universe, but it seemed to be against the rules as written as I parsed them.

Also since drinking those bottles do provoke Aoo's in this, I'm really not sure

 

[Luckmann]

Hey, they actually put a version number on the main menu. Awesome. It doesn't look very nice, but still, if I have to pick between form and function, function will win out.

it gets spell progression, but not spellcasting lvl / class related spell penetration. for example, you can cast high lvl spells but when casting spells that calculate damage per lvl, youre treated as having the same lvl as your other previous class.
respecced octavia when i discovered this

This is absolutely a bug, if it's happening to you, because my Octavia (from an old save, so this might be a new bug) is Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 3, with a Caster Level (which is the word you're looking for) of 8. It is uncommon that things get caster level progression but no spell progression in 3.X - but getting spell progression without caster level progression is completely fucking unheard of, AFAIK.

Absolutely a bug. Do you happen to have multiple casting classes or something? Either way, go report it, send your save, etc.

 

[Yosharian]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

Your alchemist is not casting anything, he's just being friendly and passing the bottle around.

Does it actually work in-game, though?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

Your alchemist is not casting anything, he's just being friendly and passing the bottle around.

Does it actually work in-game, though?

yeah it does. infusion is pretty great. the whole point of the ability is that it lets you cast this stuff on other people.

 

[Yosharian]

Rules question:
If you get an alchemist with infusion, he can cast shield on any friendly target. Is this intended or a bug?

It seems *really* strong.

Your alchemist is not casting anything, he's just being friendly and passing the bottle around.

Does it actually work in-game, though?

yeah it does. infusion is pretty great. the whole point of the ability is that it lets you cast this stuff on other people.

Wow. This... changes a lot.

 

[panda]

Transformation for everyone from lvl 16
Though, most hilarious is probably true strike due to 1 round duration bug/feature. Molest your ranged damage dealer every turn to get +20 to hit on top of everything he has.
Also, Linzi gets Greater Shout at 16, and after being on receiving end i can say this is very spell.

to everyone who multiclassed her.