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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was thinking of a Ranger build with a double weapon and TWF. There are some autists here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2od98?Double-weapon-fighter that are saying you don't get the STR modifier for two handed weapons. I'll update if I get that and the bonus from the Double Slice feat.
 

Yosharian

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Though considering the archeologist doesn't seem to be getting any special abilities or feats at level 19 & 20, unlike most classes,
i know but then caster lvls give spell dc :negative:
Caster levels don't give increased spell DC.

Spell DC is calculated as follows:

10 + spell level + ability modifier + misc modifiers

Example: if you have 18 Int and cast a level 5 Wizard spell, the spell will have DC 10 + 5 + 4 = 19.

The only time caster levels gives DC is if it's a special ability that functions off your level rather than the spell level (probably because it's not a 'spell' at all). And in those cases it's not caster level, but class level, probably.

huh? someone on dex told me it does. For sure im not staying pure now. Now is the question whether i go 16 or 18. Also screw bows/xbows, will probably go part grenadier
Alchemist barely has any offensive extracts anyway...

The level 20 Alchemist reward is really good.
But there is a good chance that by the time you reach level 20 the game will be almost over. I wouldn't think too much about all the level 20 skills, more about if multiclassing is worth slower acquisition of skills/spells at lower levels. Though I might be wrong and you reach level 20 when there is still tons of content before you. No one saw the end game, at least not on the Codex.
Yes, but you could also make the argument that if you multiclass, whatever you leave til the last few levels gets delayed so that it effectively becomes the level 20 ability.

For example Grand Mutagen is also amazing, and is usually gotten at lvl 16, but if you do a 16/4 split then you're getting it at level 20 instead of 16, so you barely get to use it.

"Alchemist level 20 ability is amazing but I'll barely get to use it so I'll multiclass instead" is an illogical argument.
 

Serus

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Though considering the archeologist doesn't seem to be getting any special abilities or feats at level 19 & 20, unlike most classes,
i know but then caster lvls give spell dc :negative:
Caster levels don't give increased spell DC.

Spell DC is calculated as follows:

10 + spell level + ability modifier + misc modifiers

Example: if you have 18 Int and cast a level 5 Wizard spell, the spell will have DC 10 + 5 + 4 = 19.

The only time caster levels gives DC is if it's a special ability that functions off your level rather than the spell level (probably because it's not a 'spell' at all). And in those cases it's not caster level, but class level, probably.

huh? someone on dex told me it does. For sure im not staying pure now. Now is the question whether i go 16 or 18. Also screw bows/xbows, will probably go part grenadier
Alchemist barely has any offensive extracts anyway...

The level 20 Alchemist reward is really good.
But there is a good chance that by the time you reach level 20 the game will be almost over. I wouldn't think too much about all the level 20 skills, more about if multiclassing is worth slower acquisition of skills/spells at lower levels. Though I might be wrong and you reach level 20 when there is still tons of content before you. No one saw the end game, at least not on the Codex.
Yes, but you could also make the argument that if you multiclass, whatever you leave til the last few levels gets delayed so that it effectively becomes the level 20 ability.

For example Grand Mutagen is also amazing, and is usually gotten at lvl 16, but if you do a 16/4 split then you're getting it at level 20 instead of 16, so you barely get to use it.

"Alchemist level 20 ability is amazing but I'll barely get to use it so I'll multiclass instead" is an illogical argument.
So is: "Keep alchemist for 20 levels because level 20 ability is cool".
And I was not making the argument you mentioned in the first place. It is: "Do not stay single class just for that one level 20 ability" instead. There might be other good reasons though.
 

Yosharian

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So is: "Keep alchemist for 20 levels because level 20 ability is cool".
And I was not making the argument you mentioned in the first place. It is: "Do not stay single class just for that one level 20 ability" instead. There might be other good reasons though.
Well, ok, but my point is that Alchemist gets tons of cool shit throughout their progression, not just at level 20.
 

Yosharian

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I was thinking of a Ranger build with a double weapon and TWF. There are some autists here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2od98?Double-weapon-fighter that are saying you don't get the STR modifier for two handed weapons. I'll update if I get that and the bonus from the Double Slice feat.
When using a double weapon, the damage bonus from strength shouldn't be 1.5x. However, the game may treat it as 1.5x. Who knows. The devs seem to be making a lot of balance changes by themselves.

A double weapon is only two-handed when wielding one end with two hands. When two-weapon fighting, you are considered to be wielding each end with one separate hand, and deal 1*STR with the main hand and 0.5*STR with the off-hand.

This makes sense if you think about it, because when you wield a double weapon and you make a strike, you aren't using the power of both your hands/arms, rather you're making strikes with each end of the weapon, alternating power between each hand/arm. Just like you do in normal two-weapon fighting.
 

Serus

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So is: "Keep alchemist for 20 levels because level 20 ability is cool".
And I was not making the argument you mentioned in the first place. It is: "Do not stay single class just for that one level 20 ability" instead. There might be other good reasons though.
Well, ok, but my point is that Alchemist gets tons of cool shit throughout their progression, not just at level 20.
And that's a good point that I can agree with fully.
 

Yosharian

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Trying to work out whether the Wings feat persists while Polymorphed

Zu0FXoC.png


Edit:

It works! This game... lmao
 

Sheepherder

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How useful is Damage Resistance as a primary defense for a barbarian? I'd like to make a 2-h Invulnerable ranger, but even with beast totem offsetting the AC penalty from rage his AC would suck balls.
 

Yosharian

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How useful is Damage Resistance as a primary defense for a barbarian? I'd like to make a 2-h Invulnerable ranger, but even with beast totem offsetting the AC penalty from rage his AC would suck balls.

Its not going to turn him into an effective tank. It'll mitigate a decent amount of damage, but you need other characters who are more AC-focused to screen enemies away from your Barb.

Also it's called Damage Reduction, not Resistance. :obviously:
 

Lawntoilet

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Yosharian What are your thoughts on the following, if you don't mind?

1. Valerie: I'd like to go Stalwart Defender 1 but I'm not sure it's worth more than that. I want to keep her as a Tower shield tank, and I'd rather not have her cast anything to keep things simple. I'm planning to have her get Cornugon Strike and Shatter Defenses, but beyond that I'm not sure. I'm looking at Fighter 7/SD1-3/Fighter X, Fighter 7/SD 1-3/Thug 1-3, or Fighter 7/Thug 1/SD 10/Thug 3.

2. Linzi as an Eldritch Knight Archer?

3. Regongar as a Dragon Disciple?

4. Feats for a Dex Magus Baron beyond Fencing Grace and Piranha Strike? Is Arcane Strike worth it, since your Swift actions are generally used for other things anyway? And how should I raise my Int vs raising my Dex?
 

Yosharian

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This Dragon build is fucking insane. You can get 5d6 Sneak Attack from a spell. You can use the Crane Style feat line to gain +7 dodge AC. You get the Wings dodge AC from being Aasimar. You can use the Seamantle spell to gain +8 Cover AC. You know what, it's simpler to just post this:

IZwbU0J.jpg

And I can get it higher than that if I have a Dex belt or cast Cat's Grace, or use the Combat Expertise feat. Jesus wept.
 

Yosharian

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Yosharian What are your thoughts on the following, if you don't mind?

1. Valerie: I'd like to go Stalwart Defender 1 but I'm not sure it's worth more than that. I want to keep her as a Tower shield tank, and I'd rather not have her cast anything to keep things simple. I'm planning to have her get Cornugon Strike and Shatter Defenses, but beyond that I'm not sure. I'm looking at Fighter 7/SD1-3/Fighter X, Fighter 7/SD 1-3/Thug 1-3, or Fighter 7/Thug 1/SD 10/Thug 3.

2. Linzi as an Eldritch Knight Archer?

3. Regongar as a Dragon Disciple?

4. Feats for a Dex Magus Baron beyond Fencing Grace and Piranha Strike? Is Arcane Strike worth it, since your Swift actions are generally used for other things anyway? And how should I raise my Int vs raising my Dex?

1: I don't have a lot of experience with this class but it seems that you get a lot of decent stuff at the first level, so yeah, one level could work. Still, the Defensive Powers are quite nice, so it's not a bad thing if you go further. I personally don't think Power Attack is worth it on a shield tank, but it's alright I guess, especially if you're using Cornugon Strike. Does she have a decent Persuasion bonus?

2: Her strength isn't very good, so she won't be able to use Bows. Crossbows are gonna make Eldritch Archer difficult.. I think. Not sure about this one. Bard isn't a bad class, I'd just keep her as a Bard honestly. Too bad she has shit strength, or she'd make a good archer. 14 Con on a ranged character.. facepalm.

3: Dragon Disciple is a pretty bad class, but I guess it could work.

4: I wouldn't go for either of those feats, personally, I'd just use an Agile weapon. Arcane Strike isn't worth it, because you're often using your swift actions to do other things. There's an excellent Magus guide here which is where I get most of my info from: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/show...-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus I haven't played the game yet, so I can't really say for sure, but I suspect its better for this kind of character to avoid getting married to a specific weapon type, and instead just get Weapon Finesse and then use whatever weapons are available. That way you're pretty much guaranteed to come across an Agile weapon sooner or later.

This is the ability score distribution and feat progression I'm going to use on my Magus, but he's an Eldritch Scion and an Aasimar so obviously there will be some feats you won't want to take here.

Eldritch Scion 17/Scaled Fist 1/Divine Hunter 2

Str: 11
Dex: 19 (+2)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 07
Cha: 19 (+2)

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Deflect Arrows, Dodge*
5: Spell Focus: Evocation
6: (Arcana) Wand Wielder
7: Spell Specialization
8: (Bonus Feat) Metamagic: Heighten
9: Outflank
9: (Arcana) Enduring Blade
11: Wings
12: (Arcana) Hasted Assault
13: Crane Style
14: (Bonus Feat) Spell Penetration
15: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
16: (Arcana) Arcane Accuracy
17: Crane Wing
18: (Arcana) Ghost/Devoted Blade?
19: Crane Riposte
20: (Bonus Feat) Greater Spell Penetration

Anyway, Magus is a pretty versatile class, so anything can work really. I just prefer to focus more on the spellcasting than little bonuses here and there to physical weapon damage.
 

Lawntoilet

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Yosharian What are your thoughts on the following, if you don't mind?

1. Valerie: I'd like to go Stalwart Defender 1 but I'm not sure it's worth more than that. I want to keep her as a Tower shield tank, and I'd rather not have her cast anything to keep things simple. I'm planning to have her get Cornugon Strike and Shatter Defenses, but beyond that I'm not sure. I'm looking at Fighter 7/SD1-3/Fighter X, Fighter 7/SD 1-3/Thug 1-3, or Fighter 7/Thug 1/SD 10/Thug 3.

2. Linzi as an Eldritch Knight Archer?

3. Regongar as a Dragon Disciple?

4. Feats for a Dex Magus Baron beyond Fencing Grace and Piranha Strike? Is Arcane Strike worth it, since your Swift actions are generally used for other things anyway? And how should I raise my Int vs raising my Dex?

1: I don't have a lot of experience with this class but it seems that you get a lot of decent stuff at the first level, so yeah, one level could work. Still, the Defensive Powers are quite nice, so it's not a bad thing if you go further. I personally don't think Power Attack is worth it on a shield tank, but it's alright I guess, especially if you're using Cornugon Strike. Does she have a decent Persuasion bonus?

2: Her strength isn't very good, so she won't be able to use Bows. Crossbows are gonna make Eldritch Archer difficult.. I think. Not sure about this one. Bard isn't a bad class, I'd just keep her as a Bard honestly. Too bad she has shit strength, or she'd make a good archer. 14 Con on a ranged character.. facepalm.

3: Dragon Disciple is a pretty bad class, but I guess it could work.

4: I wouldn't go for either of those feats, personally, I'd just use an Agile weapon. Arcane Strike isn't worth it, because you're often using your swift actions to do other things. There's an excellent Magus guide here which is where I get most of my info from: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/show...-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus I haven't played the game yet, so I can't really say for sure, but I suspect its better for this kind of character to avoid getting married to a specific weapon type, and instead just get Weapon Finesse and then use whatever weapons are available. That way you're pretty much guaranteed to come across an Agile weapon sooner or later.

This is the ability score distribution and feat progression I'm going to use on my Magus, but he's an Eldritch Scion and an Aasimar so obviously there will be some feats you won't want to take here.

Eldritch Scion 17/Scaled Fist 1/Divine Hunter 2

Str: 11
Dex: 19 (+2)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 07
Cha: 19 (+2)

1: Weapon Finesse
3: Deflect Arrows, Dodge*
5: Spell Focus: Evocation
6: (Arcana) Wand Wielder
7: Spell Specialization
8: (Bonus Feat) Metamagic: Heighten
9: Outflank
9: (Arcana) Enduring Blade
11: Wings
12: (Arcana) Hasted Assault
13: Crane Style
14: (Bonus Feat) Spell Penetration
15: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
16: (Arcana) Arcane Accuracy
17: Crane Wing
18: (Arcana) Ghost/Devoted Blade?
19: Crane Riposte
20: (Bonus Feat) Greater Spell Penetration

Anyway, Magus is a pretty versatile class, so anything can work really. I just prefer to focus more on the spellcasting than little bonuses here and there to physical weapon damage.

Hey, thanks man. Yeah, I've been mostly pumping Persuasion on Valerie (after I got Mobility 3 for the extra AC in Defensive Fighting Style). Not much else that I need for skills, and not that much else she's honestly good at. Athletics, I guess, but armor penalties really fuck that up for her anyway.
What's bad about Dragon Disciple? I only ever played NWN/NWN2 as a Ranger/Fighter or Paladin/Champion of Torm, but I remember every build guide for those games was all about the RDDs.
I didn't realize that you hadn't started the game yet - FWIW, rapiers seem like the weapon to go for, if you're going Dex - I've encountered both a +1 and +2 Agile rapier so far and I'm still in Chapter 2. There are a ton of Str, Dex, Con (and Str+Dex+Con) belts in the game, too, and I've found or bought some +2 Int or +2 Wis helmets.
 

Yosharian

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Hey, thanks man. Yeah, I've been mostly pumping Persuasion on Valerie (after I got Mobility 3 for the extra AC in Defensive Fighting Style). Not much else that I need for skills, and not that much else she's honestly good at. Athletics, I guess, but armor penalties really fuck that up for her anyway.
What's bad about Dragon Disciple? I only ever played NWN/NWN2 as a Ranger/Fighter or Paladin/Champion of Torm, but I remember every build guide for those games was all about the RDDs.
I didn't realize that you hadn't started the game yet - FWIW, rapiers seem like the weapon to go for, if you're going Dex - I've encountered both a +1 and +2 Agile rapier so far and I'm still in Chapter 2. There are a ton of Str, Dex, Con (and Str+Dex+Con) belts in the game, too, and I've found or bought some +2 Int or +2 Wis helmets.

Dragon Disciple:

  • You have to give up several spellcasting levels during progression (this is by far the worst aspect)
  • All the best stat boosts are front-loaded during the first 4 levels
  • It's 3/4 BAB progression so you lose a point of BAB at 1st, 5th, and 9th level
  • The Int boost is useless to Charisma-based casters (i.e. the ones that would give you access to the class!)
  • You have to use the Draconic Bloodline, which isn't that good
  • You're forced to use a specific Dragon form, even if you cast Dragonkind III, which denies you the ability to shift into different forms depending upon what type of energy attacks your enemy is using, or is weak to (this is actually huge) - however, this limitation may not be in the game, I haven't checked yet
  • Blindsense seems very limited, not sure if it even does anything
  • Annoying (and pointless) Knowledge (Arcana) requirement
  • You don't even get Wings
  • Sorcerers get Dragon form in the form of the Dragonkind III spell anyway, so who cares
Thanks for the info on the weapons and items, that really helps.

RDDs were excellent in NWN/NWN2 because those games had (eventually) epic levels. Once you get full 20th level spellcasting, getting more spellcasting levels isn't as important anymore, so the RDD becomes vastly better.
 
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hell bovine

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Secret Level
Though considering the archeologist doesn't seem to be getting any special abilities or feats at level 19 & 20, unlike most classes,
i know but then caster lvls give spell dc :negative:
Caster levels don't give increased spell DC.

Spell DC is calculated as follows:

10 + spell level + ability modifier + misc modifiers

Example: if you have 18 Int and cast a level 5 Wizard spell, the spell will have DC 10 + 5 + 4 = 19.

The only time caster levels gives DC is if it's a special ability that functions off your level rather than the spell level (probably because it's not a 'spell' at all). And in those cases it's not caster level, but class level, probably.

huh? someone on dex told me it does. For sure im not staying pure now. Now is the question whether i go 16 or 18. Also screw bows/xbows, will probably go part grenadier
Maybe it's about beating spell resistance? I think that's how caster level worked in NWN.

Anyway, alchemist is a lot if fun (I'm playing a generalist, because couldn't decide). The initial bomb is so-so, but later you can choose others at level ups that are more fun. I would not multiclass him however, the higher you go, the better / more bombs you have and they can turn the tide in tougher battles.
 

Yosharian

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Though considering the archeologist doesn't seem to be getting any special abilities or feats at level 19 & 20, unlike most classes,
i know but then caster lvls give spell dc :negative:
Caster levels don't give increased spell DC.

Spell DC is calculated as follows:

10 + spell level + ability modifier + misc modifiers

Example: if you have 18 Int and cast a level 5 Wizard spell, the spell will have DC 10 + 5 + 4 = 19.

The only time caster levels gives DC is if it's a special ability that functions off your level rather than the spell level (probably because it's not a 'spell' at all). And in those cases it's not caster level, but class level, probably.

huh? someone on dex told me it does. For sure im not staying pure now. Now is the question whether i go 16 or 18. Also screw bows/xbows, will probably go part grenadier
Maybe it's about beating spell resistance? I think that's how caster level worked in NWN.

Anyway, alchemist is a lot if fun (I'm playing a generalist, because couldn't decide). The initial bomb is so-so, but later you can choose others at level ups that are more fun. I would not multiclass him however, the higher you go, the better / more bombs you have and they can turn the tide in tougher battles.

Yeah caster level does help beat spell resistance. The two feats help a lot in that respect.
 

Yosharian

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Does 16-13-14-7-18-7 seem like a good distribution for a Blight Druid?
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 07
Wis 18
Cha 07

Depends what you want to do with it. There are many different ways to play Druids. Also, you didn't specify a race.
Half orc. As for playstyle, I'm thinking of focusing on wildshaping and going meele so I can reap the perks of miasma and plaguebearer.

I take back what I said earlier, you can definitely tank with this. If you pick up a level of Monk and grab all the Crane Style feats, it can work. It won't be as good as the Dragon forms from Dragonkind I/II/III, but it'll work.

Aasimar would be better than Half-Orc though, cos you can pick up the Wings feat for an extra 3 AC.
 

The Great Deceiver

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yosharian, can you suggest some decent builds for Ekundayo, perhaps bit more of a melee/ranged (depending on the enemy) situation? Though I bet you'll probably say that's a bad idea :) In that case, perhaps something more focused on the longbow with okay-ish melee to fall back to should such a need arise?
 

Yosharian

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Yosharian, can you suggest some decent builds for Ekundayo, perhaps bit more of a melee/ranged (depending on the enemy) situation? Though I bet you'll probably say that's a bad idea :) In that case, perhaps something more focused on the longbow with okay-ish melee to fall back to should such a need arise?
I need his ability score distribution, it's not on the Wiki. And, what feats does he have already?

Edit: alright it looks like he has high dex and decent strength, according to Gamerguides. But, without knowing what style feats he's got, it's impossible for me to know how to build him.

You could stick with Light armor, grab maybe 4 levels of Vivisectionist (Alchemist) to get some Sneak Attack, 40 min Mutagen, and some nice level 1 buffs. But.. you need 12 Int for that.

Fighter is a really good choice, you get shit tons of feats and that'll allow you to do a bunch of things, such as the melee/ranged hybrid you mentioned.

Otherwise just continue with Ranger and make the most of his spells, Ranger spells are quite nice.
 
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Pope Amole II has some super munchkin builds in his youtube channel.

Quite a few of them would make Josh Sawyer have go frothing at his mouth in an epileptic seizure. :lol:

What do people think of PA2/NC's companion builds? There's some really strange 180 degree turns in there.

Is there a way to see the "default" companion level-up scheme? As in, what owlcat intended for them to be. Like picking the "follow archetype progression" option in character creation.
Enable Auto Level up for companions; cheat in max xp and note the levelups all the way to 20.

But honestly? Linzi, Valerie and Harrim are useless and won't bother with all that.
 

Lanto

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Hi guys, I have a build related question. I am planning to create a Mad Dog Lvl1 char, then switch to Fighter (and go all the way to 20 with Fighter).

Would boon companion feat make my pet continue to scale with my level, even if I'm fighter?

Someone on the inet said that boon companion is bugged and the pet won't scale when you multiclass, so if someone has tested this, please share your experience.
 
Joined
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Pope Amole II has some super munchkin builds in his youtube channel.

Quite a few of them would make Josh Sawyer have go frothing at his mouth in an epileptic seizure. :lol:

What do people think of PA2/NC's companion builds? There's some really strange 180 degree turns in there.

Is there a way to see the "default" companion level-up scheme? As in, what owlcat intended for them to be. Like picking the "follow archetype progression" option in character creation.
Enable Auto Level up for companions; cheat in max xp and note the levelups all the way to 20.

But honestly? Linzi, Valerie and Harrim are useless and won't bother with all that.

Do you mean their default progression is terrible given their stats, or that they are still terrible even if munchkinized compared to other companions?
default progression is shit; and terrible munchkinism makes them sort of decent i suppose; but then again terrible munchkinism on the worthwhile companions makes them much much better.
 
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Do you have any thoughts on how PA2 munchkinized the companions?
Its pretty good and he has done a lot of testing, but I would suggest use his munchkined builds (for the ones which don't specify a companion; most of which are lawful or lawful good for the paladin/scaled fist bonuses, on custom companions if you want to larp other alignments.
And most of them are heavily optimized for the higher difficulties. You can get away with much more leeway if u customize the difficulty as fair (don't weaken or buff enemies, try to stay as close to pnp rules as possible). His videos are very long and I only watched a couple of them really.

But one great thing about his builds is, quite a few of them consider choices to make the early/mid level gameplay easier rather than making your lv20 companion optimized to perfection. Which is something to keep in mind when theory crafting your own build adn I usually tend to skip over this aspect.
 

Yosharian

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Hi guys, I have a build related question. I am planning to create a Mad Dog Lvl1 char, then switch to Fighter (and go all the way to 20 with Fighter).

Would boon companion feat make my pet continue to scale with my level, even if I'm fighter?

Someone on the inet said that boon companion is bugged and the pet won't scale when you multiclass, so if someone has tested this, please share your experience.
No idea how it actually works, but Boon Companion isn't supposed to work like that. It's only supposed to give +4 levels. So you'd have the equivalent of Mad Dog level 5.
 

razvedchiki

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on the back of a T34.
i want a dual wield aldori swordmaster build plox,duelist sword in one hand and a dagger/smallsword in the other.
 

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