Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Cryomancer]

Maximized Empowered boneshatter can deal 135(15*6*1.5) damage and make the target exhausted. Clashing Rocks deals 20~120 damage(20d6), so IMO metamagic can make certain spells amazing even at high level. Not mentioning, that the Bone spell targets FORTITUDE and few creatures in this game has good fort save.... Cone of cold and most acid spells who ignore SR becomes better with metamagic. Unfortunately some of my favorite spells like Icy Prison won't allow metamagic...

 

[Haplo]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

You see, I didn't.
I built Octavia as a Conjuration CC specialist, as usual. Damage came by itself, supported by the AT Prestige Class.

 

[Beggar]

I guess I'll try to beat Divinity 2 and hope by that time Pathfinder gets completely patched

 

[Desiderius]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

You see, I didn't.
I built Octavia as a Conjuration CC specialist, as usual. Damage came by itself, supported by the AT Prestige Class.

You lose a lot less from wizard than sorc going AT, plus it gives her something viable to do when not casting.

Just don’t kid yourself that one cantrip or wand or ray* with sneak dice a round, even targeting touch, is anywhere near a decent BAB full attack triggering those dice multiple times. EA Octavia with Rapid and Manyshot blows those away.

 

[Haplo]

Well, something interesting: the Star Commander Gloves seem to shoot their laser 3 times per round!

 

[ArchAngel]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

You see, I didn't.
I built Octavia as a Conjuration CC specialist, as usual. Damage came by itself, supported by the AT Prestige Class.

You lose a lot less from wizard than sorc going AT, plus it gives her something viable to do when not casting.

Just don’t kid yourself that one cantrip or wand or ray* with sneak dice a round, even targeting touch, is anywhere near a decent BAB full attack triggering those dice multiple times. EA Octavia with Rapid and Manyshot blows those away.

AT has wizard BAB, using it to do non-touch attacks is a big mistake. Octavia already has problems hitting late game touch AC vs some enemies.

 

[Haplo]

I could see it work with Shatter Defenses... but archery feats + focus + Dazzling + Shatter + Arcane Strike - its a lot of feats for a mage that don't support his focus.

Meanwhile end game I tend to blast in a lot of encounters anyway - making those archery feats wasted.

 

[Desiderius]

I could see it work with Shatter Defenses... but archery feats + focus + Dazzling + Shatter + Arcane Strike - its a lot of feats for a mage that don't support his focus.

Meanwhile end game I tend to blast in a lot of encounters anyway - making those archery feats wasted.

The vast majority of the game is spent in the non endgame. It is indeed a challenge getting all her extra attacks to land as an archer, but those kind of challenges are what make the game fun. If I can get the crappy summons in this game to connect, I can do it with Octavia.

Here’s a hint: if she’s getting sneak dice, she’s flanking, so Outflank and Freebooter’s Bond work. Also Inspire Courage and all the debuffs from the original comment about building an enchantment/illusion sorc. Of course then you also get to use some of the busted bows in this game. Arcane Strike is unnecessary as it’s only damage, not to hit, and not much damage.

I start her out with all four rogue levels to get my BAB money back I already paid for and I’m a sucker for uncanny dodge and debilitating attack but that’s not strictly necessary.

 

[Daidre]

Here’s a hint: if she’s getting sneak dice, she’s flanking, so Outflank and Freebooter’s Bond work. Also Inspire Courage and all the debuffs from the original comment about building an enchantment/illusion sorc. Of course then you also get to use some of the busted bows in this game. Arcane Strike is unnecessary as it’s only damage, not to hit, and not much damage.

Another hint: you can't flank with the bow in P:K and Outflank + Freebooter’s Bond would not work.
You can get all this tasty bonuses with melee weapon but sending Octavia to melee with her flimsy HP pool is almost cruel.

 

[ArchAngel]

I could see it work with Shatter Defenses... but archery feats + focus + Dazzling + Shatter + Arcane Strike - its a lot of feats for a mage that don't support his focus.

Meanwhile end game I tend to blast in a lot of encounters anyway - making those archery feats wasted.

The vast majority of the game is spent in the non endgame. It is indeed a challenge getting all her extra attacks to land as an archer, but those kind of challenges are what make the game fun. If I can get the crappy summons in this game to connect, I can do it with Octavia.

Here’s a hint: if she’s getting sneak dice, she’s flanking, so Outflank and Freebooter’s Bond work. Also Inspire Courage and all the debuffs from the original comment about building an enchantment/illusion sorc. Of course then you also get to use some of the busted bows in this game. Arcane Strike is unnecessary as it’s only damage, not to hit, and not much damage.

I start her out with all four rogue levels to get my BAB money back I already paid for and I’m a sucker for uncanny dodge and debilitating attack but that’s not strictly necessary.

If you want to go that route just keep leveling her in rogue and add some fighter levels, forget about wizard.

 

[Desiderius]

Here’s a hint: if she’s getting sneak dice, she’s flanking, so Outflank and Freebooter’s Bond work. Also Inspire Courage and all the debuffs from the original comment about building an enchantment/illusion sorc. Of course then you also get to use some of the busted bows in this game. Arcane Strike is unnecessary as it’s only damage, not to hit, and not much damage.

Another hint: you can't flank with the bow in P:K and Outflank + Freebooter’s Bond would not work.
You can get all this tasty bonuses with melee weapon but sending Octavia to melee with her flimsy HP pool is almost cruel.

Pretty sure working in my game, I’ll check again today.

Freebooter’s Bond is working, doesn’t look like Outflank is. I put Outflank on ranged Ekun to give it to Okbo and thought it was triggering AoOs on crits, but bonus not showing up now in combat log.

 

[Desiderius]

I could see it work with Shatter Defenses... but archery feats + focus + Dazzling + Shatter + Arcane Strike - its a lot of feats for a mage that don't support his focus.

Meanwhile end game I tend to blast in a lot of encounters anyway - making those archery feats wasted.

The vast majority of the game is spent in the non endgame. It is indeed a challenge getting all her extra attacks to land as an archer, but those kind of challenges are what make the game fun. If I can get the crappy summons in this game to connect, I can do it with Octavia.

Here’s a hint: if she’s getting sneak dice, she’s flanking, so Outflank and Freebooter’s Bond work. Also Inspire Courage and all the debuffs from the original comment about building an enchantment/illusion sorc. Of course then you also get to use some of the busted bows in this game. Arcane Strike is unnecessary as it’s only damage, not to hit, and not much damage.

I start her out with all four rogue levels to get my BAB money back I already paid for and I’m a sucker for uncanny dodge and debilitating attack but that’s not strictly necessary.

If you want to go that route just keep leveling her in rogue and add some fighter levels, forget about wizard.

You can, but I do eventually get to higher wizard levels too and she’s the only companion who can.

I get most of what I need from rogue and EA in the first few levels. Fighter isn’t as appealing without duelist gloves. Still want sneak dice, just trying to trigger them more often. By level nine you’ve got four shots that trigger (plus a manyshot).

Agreed melee would be a bear without monk splash. Higher rogue lvls aren’t as good ranged because it’s hard to crit with bows. AT is way better.

 

[Desiderius]

I could see it work with Shatter Defenses... but archery feats + focus + Dazzling + Shatter + Arcane Strike - its a lot of feats for a mage that don't support his focus.

Meanwhile end game I tend to blast in a lot of encounters anyway - making those archery feats wasted.

I don’t like demoralize line on ranged characters because shatter is the only good one. Tanks want it all and any melee likes carnage.

 

[Haplo]

Freebooter’s Bond is working, doesn’t look like Outflank is. I put Outflank on ranged Ekun to give it to Okbo and thought it was triggering AoOs on crits, but bonus not showing up now in combat log.

Perhaps you're mistaking it with Freebooters Bane?
If Bond is triggered on ranged attacks, then it is a bug.

 

[Desiderius]

Freebooter’s Bond is working, doesn’t look like Outflank is. I put Outflank on ranged Ekun to give it to Okbo and thought it was triggering AoOs on crits, but bonus not showing up now in combat log.

Perhaps you're mistaking it with Freebooters Bane?
If Bond is triggered on ranged attacks, then it is a bug.

Bond and Bane are both triggering. Questionable whether it’s a bug if you’re triggering sneak dice. That’s already different than PnP.

 

[Haplo]

That's different, but the condition here is on the enemy to be "flanked", has nothing to do with ranged attackers involved in the "flanking" act.

 

[Desiderius]

That's different, but the condition here is on the enemy to be "flanked", has nothing to do with ranged attackers involved in the "flanking" act.

Point being that engaging two dudes in melee does significantly reduce one’s capacity to dodge incoming arrows, especially when all three dudes pow-wowed beforehand to plot things out.

 

[Efe]

actually you get -4 to hit attacking targets in melee

 

[_Vic_]

Ranged works better with the thug and his frightening skill. if you are engaged in melee and you make a dazzling/cornugon/etc and the enemy is scared, it starts to run and usually your character runs to him, receiving attacks of opportunity in the process.
You do not have this if you use dazzling display from range and shoot them.

 

[Desiderius]

Q

Ranged works better with the thug and his frightening skill. if you are engaged in melee and you make a dazzling/cornugon/etc and the enemy is scared, it starts to run and usually your character runs to him, receiving attacks of opportunity in the process.
You do not have this if you use dazzling display from range and shoot them.

It won’t reach in many cases.

As for melee thug, it takes some micro but the first AoO is your own. Tanks job is to keep bad guys away from squishies. If they’re running scared they’re not smashing squishies.

 

[_Vic_]

I respectfully disagree. You have to be near to SA from range: you will be near the enemy too, but safe from retaliation. So you´re in range of Dazzling Display NP and able to shoot fleeing enemies in rout.

 

[Desiderius]

actually you get -4 to hit attacking targets in melee

Then you go shoot some squirrels with Alvin York until your Shot is more Precise.

Crane Wing with shield is a bug because:

(a) the tooltip says it doesn’t work

(b) it makes no sense - you’re blocking shit with your Wing, not your shield.

Neither of these apply in this case. Granted that if Outflank doesn’t work, Bond shouldn’t either. I’ve now got a screwed up playthrough with two toons with a useless feat. They’re both scroll users, so retraining erases all their scrolls.

Goes with my main who discovered belatedly that Manyshot doesn’t work on her Staff Sling.

 

[Desiderius]

I respectfully disagree. You have to be near to SA from range: you will be near the enemy too, but safe from retaliation. So you´re in range of Dazzling Display NP and able to shoot fleeing enemies in rout.

Sounds like fun. I need to pay closer attention to make sure Octavia is cashing in her SAs. Maybe should use darts (joking).

 

[_Vic_]

You could also just give a level of thug to Valerie. You only need one level for frightening. The fighters are far better at intimidating anyway.

 

[Efe]

(b) it makes no sense - you’re blocking shit with your Wing, not your shield.

???
its just name of style - you dont block shit with your wing.
what did they prescribe you with?