Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Theurge is useless since you're two spell levels behind a pure caster of either type and can't wear armor.

Really? I have 3.5 players screaming that the 3.5 Mystic Theurge is overpowered and that one means you are 3 levels behind in both classes.

Deux doesn’t like Bards and the like so he’s pretty much priced in to broken spells and solo builds.

It’s the InEffect Effect.

Bards get stuff other than spells, and get discounted spell levels/exclusivity on several spells. Mystic Theurge gets nothing but mildly better flexibility, certainly nothing to make up for the fact it's behind three character levels, doesn't get class features from the base class (some cleric domains are quite good), requires two high attributes and is screwed even more end-game (What does a Theurge do at level 17+?).

Man, you’re missing a lot here.

The point was that if you don’t use buffs/debuffs (esp Bard/Freebooter/Archon’s/Dirge)then you have to have powerful spells ASAP to survive on higher difficulties.

I go the other route because I go 20-30 min between rests and you only get a few of those powerful spells. So I don’t have to get those powerful spells right away and instead can go Theurge or give Octavia the rest of her four Rogue lvls, etc.

You only use one main stat with Theurge by using WIS sorc or CHA Druid, unless you don’t need to beat DCs on one side in which case you have more flexibility.

You are very right about losing Domain abilities tho. Also things like channeling.

 

[Desiderius]

17/17 casting? What are you talking about? You can do 15/15 or 13/17.

That’s right, only get ten levels of Theurge.

So you’re saying it’s laughably weak because you can only take ten levels of it.

 

[razvedchiki]

so a dex tank paladin with a lvl of scaled fist for charisma to ac is a decent tank?
is it worth it to use a 2hander with that build or 1handed+shield?

 

[Desiderius]

so a dex tank paladin with a lvl of scaled fist for charisma to ac is a decent tank?
is it worth it to use a 2hander with that build or 1handed+shield?

Don’t think you really need to mess with DEX. Full BAB with two-hander does a lot of work with STR.

A switch to Monk at lvl 18 does work well tho, as long as CHR has been your main stat, as it should be.

Not really main tank material however you slice it. Even if you go DEX Monk you don’t have Dodge and Pals don’t do well with splashes.

I did fine tanking with Okbo/BardVal/Harrim and smashing face with Bane/Reach Two-Handers.

 

[razvedchiki]

why not?you have your ac from dex/charisma/wings plus all the buffs/equipement(bracers of armor,robe etc).monk is just 1 lvl for the charisma to ac plus the reduction of the attack penalty to -2 with crane wing.
sure sword saint etc can reach sky rocket ac and also do much more dmg.

 

[ArchAngel]

17/17 casting? What are you talking about? You can do 15/15 or 13/17.

That’s right, only get ten levels of Theurge.

So you’re saying it’s laughably weak because you can only take ten levels of it.

No, I am saying Caen's friends are retards because they considered it too powerful and wanted it weaker. It is a useful prestige but not as powerful as some other characters. Especially not in PnP where you level up much slower and you are playing ironman and lagging 3 levels in spells is a lot.

 

[Desiderius]

17/17 casting? What are you talking about? You can do 15/15 or 13/17.

That’s right, only get ten levels of Theurge.

So you’re saying it’s laughably weak because you can only take ten levels of it.

No, I am saying Caen's friends are retards because they considered it too powerful and wanted it weaker. It is a useful prestige but not as powerful as some other characters. Especially not in PnP where you level up much slower and you are playing ironman and lagging 3 levels in spells is a lot.

Good points.

I’m doing a run with three companions dipping in here and there so I’ll see. Tristian archer was a little disappointing with losing Touch of Good and Channeling and just various awkwardness (poor INT), plus Eldritch Archer is just poorly done (actually undone = copypasta of base Magus with bow).

Trying 8 lvls of Cleric this time then 4 or 6 Scion, the rest Theurge.

 

[Desiderius]

why not?you have your ac from dex/charisma/wings plus all the buffs/equipement(bracers of armor,robe etc).monk is just 1 lvl for the charisma to ac plus the reduction of the attack penalty to -2 with crane wing.
sure sword saint etc can reach sky rocket ac and also do much more dmg.

No Dodge, no Image, no Finesse, No DEX to damage.

Square peg in round hole. You want your Smites to hurt. Go big.

 

[razvedchiki]

you misunderstood me,with dex i meant the standard naked with robe tank (dex will be around 14-16 plus belts).

 

[Desiderius]

you misunderstood me,with dex i meant the standard naked with robe tank (dex will be around 14-16 plus belts).

Oh sure, sure. 14 to keep you online for Reflexes when you get belts. Still don’t think you’ll be main tank though.

 

[purpleblob]

For Beneath the Stolen Lands in the main campaign, how do you find all the items you need for the "true ending"?

Spoiler

Do you still need to obtain 4 unique items before killing each mini boss or can I find all items hidden in secret doors? Seeing that I can go back to previous floors, I'm hoping I just need to go back and pass perception checks to get all items I need to confront the dragon

I made sure to have all four of the bosses’ items before killing each boss. The further down you get the more the itemization becomes a joke so it’s hard to get motivated.

The Holy Hooked Hammer is pretty sweet though. Vordokai wants no part of that.

Damn, I guess I will have to replay the main campaign again one day :/ already killed bosses without all required items.

 

[Desiderius]

For Beneath the Stolen Lands in the main campaign, how do you find all the items you need for the "true ending"?

Spoiler

Do you still need to obtain 4 unique items before killing each mini boss or can I find all items hidden in secret doors? Seeing that I can go back to previous floors, I'm hoping I just need to go back and pass perception checks to get all items I need to confront the dragon

I made sure to have all four of the bosses’ items before killing each boss. The further down you get the more the itemization becomes a joke so it’s hard to get motivated.

The Holy Hooked Hammer is pretty sweet though. Vordokai wants no part of that.

Damn, I guess I will have to replay the main campaign again one day :/ already killed bosses without all required items.

That was the joke. Vordokai can be killed by a stiff breeze. And that Hammer is actually solid (especially against V’s DR) but I’d bet the % of people who’ve ever equipped it is under 1.

Only must have item in Depths that I can think of is gloves from lvl VI (!).

 

[razvedchiki]

making amiri an armored hulk is considered extreme metagaming/min maxing?

 

[Delterius]

salvaging amiri - the only normally 'epic' npc that wasn't born with all 18s - seems like a daunting task

 

[Desiderius]

salvaging amiri - the only normally 'epic' npc that wasn't born with all 18s - seems like a daunting task

She’s fine. I still haven’t played her as a Barb yet tho. Is she supposed to be an Armoured Hulk?

 

[Desiderius]

Right now I'm wavering between Sloth Mage/Feyspeaker/Mystic Theurge and Sylvan Sorcerer. I'm not looking for powergaming, but as versatile a character as possible. Which should I choose, Citizens?

That save bonus vs Fae is handy.

 

[purpleblob]

For Beneath the Stolen Lands in the main campaign, how do you find all the items you need for the "true ending"?

Spoiler

Do you still need to obtain 4 unique items before killing each mini boss or can I find all items hidden in secret doors? Seeing that I can go back to previous floors, I'm hoping I just need to go back and pass perception checks to get all items I need to confront the dragon

I made sure to have all four of the bosses’ items before killing each boss. The further down you get the more the itemization becomes a joke so it’s hard to get motivated.

The Holy Hooked Hammer is pretty sweet though. Vordokai wants no part of that.

Damn, I guess I will have to replay the main campaign again one day :/ already killed bosses without all required items.

I asked one of the guys on discord and he confirmed you can't find all items to achieve the "true" ending in the main campaign. You can only do that in stand alone version. That's what I thought too since I found an item I need past the room where I killed the mini boss in the main campaign. And the map is set in the main campaign.

 

[Ramnozack]

Right now I'm wavering between Sloth Mage/Feyspeaker/Mystic Theurge and Sylvan Sorcerer. I'm not looking for powergaming, but as versatile a character as possible. Which should I choose, Citizens?

That save bonus vs Fae is handy.

I intend to install Eldritch Arcana and use the "Magical Knack" trait in order to recoup the loss of two spellcaster levels for the wizard. By level 20 I'll have access to 8th level spells for both classes. Am I missing any downside?

Magical Knack doesn't affect spell progression, just gives straight caster levels. You won't gain access to another spell level via it, I think.

 

[Yosharian]

17/17 casting? What are you talking about? You can do 15/15 or 13/17.

That’s right, only get ten levels of Theurge.

So you’re saying it’s laughably weak because you can only take ten levels of it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Desiderius]

17/17 casting? What are you talking about? You can do 15/15 or 13/17.

That’s right, only get ten levels of Theurge.

So you’re saying it’s laughably weak because you can only take ten levels of it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I forgot you can only take ten levels. If you could take 14 you could get to 17/17.

Ironic that a class would be weak because you can only take ten levels, but you or Deux gave a decent rationale why the early game weakness is enough.

Don’t know why you insist on talking to some imaginary idiot in your head instead of me. I’m about done.

 

[Yosharian]

Well of course you can only take ten levels, it's a prestige class... that's the whole point, 17/17 would obviously be amazing, but you can't do that.

 

[Shadenuat]

salvaging amiri - the only normally 'epic' npc that wasn't born with all 18s - seems like a daunting task

2 barb > Spawn Slayer
will kill Unfair even with her starting +1 sword.

 

[purpleblob]

For Beneath the Stolen Lands in the main campaign, how do you find all the items you need for the "true ending"?

Spoiler

Do you still need to obtain 4 unique items before killing each mini boss or can I find all items hidden in secret doors? Seeing that I can go back to previous floors, I'm hoping I just need to go back and pass perception checks to get all items I need to confront the dragon

I made sure to have all four of the bosses’ items before killing each boss. The further down you get the more the itemization becomes a joke so it’s hard to get motivated.

The Holy Hooked Hammer is pretty sweet though. Vordokai wants no part of that.

Damn, I guess I will have to replay the main campaign again one day :/ already killed bosses without all required items.

I asked one of the guys on discord and he confirmed you can't find all items to achieve the "true" ending in the main campaign. You can only do that in stand alone version. That's what I thought too since I found an item I need past the room where I killed the mini boss in the main campaign. And the map is set in the main campaign.

Nevermind.. I found a link that proves you can achieve the true ending in the main campaign as well =.=

It's written in Russian (so I can't read it) but it has all screenshots of the items you need. It seems like the map is set in the main campaign.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1773176520

Well, I have to re-do this again sigh.

 

[razvedchiki]

On another note the traits from the arcane mod are excellent,found one that changes persuasion checks from charisma to wisdom allowing my aldori/monk to dump charisma.
Also picked another 2 that gave me plus +2 dmg and attack with a dueling sword,which at lvl 1 are a lot.

 

[Daidre]

making amiri an armored hulk is considered extreme metagaming/min maxing?

Making her Mad Dog or at least Invulnerable Rager is powergaming, Armored Hulk is one meh instead another.

I intend to install Eldritch Arcana and use the "Magical Knack" trait in order to recoup the loss of two spellcaster levels for the wizard. By level 20 I'll have access to 8th level spells for both classes. Am I missing any downside?

Magical Knack doesn't affect spell progression, just gives straight caster levels. You won't gain access to another spell level via it, I think.

Yes, Magical Knack wont give access to new spell levels, only adds dices/duration for caster level scaling. You'd never get extra spell levels on Theurge with it.