KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Speaking of heavy armor with a high DEX cap, has anybody found any celestial armor?

 

Bracers of Armor are explicitly not Enhancement Bonuses, not in 3.5 nor in PF.

It's always been an Armor Bonus, and thus never stacked with regular armors.

IIRC it worked just like armor in 2nd Ed. too, but I can't verify that.

Furthermore, deviating from PnP rules does not constitute a fuckup of any sort. There might be other issues with doing so that may constitute fuckups, but deviating from the PnP rules do not in and of themselves constitute a fuckup, and I'll repeat again: It is fucking retarded to assume that everything that does not conform to the PnP ruleset is a mistake, an oversight, or a bug.

Edit: Added links.

 

In 2nd Ed, they just straight up give you the AC as stated, just like normal armour.

I have always thought that the bracers were enhancement bonus, for some reason. However, I am not sure you can claim enhancement bonus from different items. Otherwise, wearing a leather armour +3 under plate armour would give you an AC bonus of +11, which shouldn't be how the thing works.

 

Provided that the plate armor you're wearing is not magic in any way whatsoever, since they occupy the same slot (and would thus suppress if magic), there would be nothing preventing such use (in 3.5/PF). However, talking about Bracers, since they expressly occupy different slots in terms of magic items, would be able to have Enhancement Bonuses that would not interfere with whatever you're getting (or not getting) from an Armor (as long as it's not an enhancement bonus to the same thing).

In PF, this is even explicit (whereas in 3.5 there's just nothing preventing it, AFAIK), and you can put different kinds of armor enchantments/improvements/special abilities on your armor and on your bracers (of armor) and have them stack. This can lead to some oddities, but nothing out of the ordinary when dealing with 3.PF, which is why DM arbitration exists. It could get costly, though, considering that they need to be magical, with enhancement bonuses not stacking, meaning that almost no matter what, +1 enhancement armor bonus would be "wasted", either on the bracers or on the armor.

Well then the IE games all "fucked up", because Bracers of Defense do not stack with armors in any of them.

 

Different armour enchantments stack. However, I am talking about the enhancement bonus to AC. That shouldn't stack. You shouldn't have +3 on one and +1 on the other and pick the best of enhancement and base AC and mix them.

So, for example, I have Bracers of Armour 2 with enhancement bonus of +5 and +5 to Hide and Heavy Fortification. Then I have a plate armour +1 with +10 to Move Silent. If you wear them both, you do get the +5 to Hide, +10 to Move Silent and Heavy Fort. However, what is your AC bonus from the armours? I contend that it is the better of the two as discrete armours (i.e., +7 for the Bracer and +9 for the plate armour) which means you get +9. I do not believe you should get +13 (plate armour base +5 enhancement from bracers enchantment). That is where the sticky part is.

The IE games have it correct. Bracers of Armour gave a straight up AC. Normal armour also gave a straight up AC (chainmail is AC 5 and studded leather is AC 7, for example). They do not stack as they are the same.

 

Mates, just check the SRD when debating Pathfinder rules. Literally the entire system is available online, free.

3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder, Bracers give Armor bonus: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor/

i.e., Bracers of Armor shouldn't stack with actual armor, so you should just get the highest bonus.

In AD&D (IE games), Bracers set your armor - just like actual armor does, so you just get the best AC of the two.

 

Yes. But what about enhancement bonus?

What if I enchant my Bracers of Armour +1 to have an enhancement bonus of +4 while wearing full plate? What is my AC (assuming nothing else and Dex 10)?

 

So, how is it? Are there still many bugs, does the story gets interesting, do decisions matter?

 

The answer to that is also in the SRD

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary/

I.e., enhancement bonus isn't a new type of armor per se, it ups the armor bonus on the item it applies to. Now I don't know how you'd enchant Bracers of Armor with an enhancement bonus (typically, you would craft the item to just be of a higher armor bonus), but even if you did, the item with the highest armor bonus would still apply.

So +4 bracers and +9 plate = you get +9 armor bonus i.e. your AC is 19.

 

I completely agree with you. Read my post above.

However, a whole slew of games dictate otherwise, including NWN and, I believe, Kingmaker. I believe that people above also argued for the higher of the two enhancement bonus applying to the higher of the base armour bonus.

As to your question why I would use a bracers of armour +1 +1, well, Bracers of Armour +1 = 1000gp. +1 armour enhancement = 1000gp. Total cost for +2 AC = 2000. Bracers of armour +2 = 4000gp. I saved 2000gp

Mind you, if anyone tries to run that by me when I am DM-ing will get the DMG thrown at him.

 

Loading times depend on cpu also?or its just bad optimization?

 

Number of saves.

 

Ah. Well, NWN was weird (because third ed. wasn't always clear, 3.5 was much improved in that regard). You could also reduce your crit threat to 12-20 or even 10-20 in that game

As for the higher of the two enhancement boni, that should not be the case raw. It should just give you the highest of the two items in isolation. If it doesn't in Kingmaker that's not RAW.

And I'm preeeetty sure (though not 100% certain) that you can't put an enchancement bonus on Brancers of Armor? They're a set magic item. Just like you can't put an enhancement bonus on a stat-boosting item in that way. So again if Kingmaker allows that I don't think it's RAW.

 

Stat boosting items should be enhancement also.

In 3.0, Inproved Critical stacked with Keen. They took it out in 3.5.

The problem with RAW is that, well, the fanbois here spits on RAW. They simply don't give a shit about RAW. I still have butthurt fanbois stalking me because I pointed out all the non-RAW and stupid things the HBS game did months ago. Even in this thread, they are butthurt when I pointed out non-RAW PF stuff. Like the sneak attack nonsense and the consequence of stat bloat. The state of RPG gamers these days is pure fucking .

 

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

 

I'm completely fine with things not being RAW if we're talking thought-through changes to improve how the game plays in an RTwP environment and the way the PC game works as well.

I have a million house rules we use for my Pathfinder campaign after all, why wouldn't I be cool with RAW changes made for a specific reason.

 

5ed fixed that yes, instead of put in an endless list of feat, a lot of stuff is “built in” the game rules, and feats are equivalent to 3-4 of the 3.5 fewt

you are still limited to use certain weapons, but the only bad thing is how dual wield work

 

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced. That was why I had always thought bracers of armour gave a straight up enhancement bonus rather than base armour bonus.

There are a lot of inconsistencies with the magical item costings. For example, look up the cost for an item that gives a constant Mage Armour effect. Compare the cost of that with bracers of armour +4.

It is going to get a lot worse when PF 2.0 comes out. Paitard seem to have gone full munchkin.

 

Thought through? Bwahahahahaha!

Well, we have the sneak attack/flanking nonsense in Kingmaker.

And then we have the knockdown shit in the HBS game. And I won't even go into the fact they multiplied everything out just for bigger numbers for the oooo-shiny! millenial dumbfucks.

 

Haven't played Pathfinder yet and won't before it's in a very patched state, so can speak to the changes of yet. But increasing AC and HP on higher difficulties sounds fine given the OGL's bias towards attacks vis a vis defence.

 

No it can't, not by RAW. The prices for armor enhancements is for armor. Bracers of Armor aren't armor.

 

More than that. Stat bloat means everything is out of whack. HDs are higher, saves are through the roof, damage from mobs means rocket tag, etc. It knocks out a lot of archetypes, and in order to get things to work, you basically have to hyper-specialise, which means set build paths and the like.

On top of that, they made it so that any two people next to the target and it is considered flanked for EVERYONE, with insane consequences for sneak attack, especially ranged sneak attack. And with obvious consequences to builds:

Things that would be considered munchkinism by any measure.

 

I finally finished Act 4,

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cleared Vordekai dungeon and killed Vordekai. The fight was pretty pathetic. He kept attacking the cleric that had Death Ward until he died.

What I can take away from it that for first time in my cRPG history something happened. That something is that I had to leave valuable stuff behind on the ground. Due to how encumbrance works, timed quests and location of end game area of Act 4, I doubt I will be going back to pick up leftovers.
Fucking

 

Bracers are (part of) armour, especially plate armour.

 

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