Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LannTheStupid]

I put 666 and 999 as the answers about optimal times, and "I am too tired to write" to the last question. No one forces you to answer honestly.

For me the best idea of DLC is Varnhold's Lot and both White Marches for Pillars. New areas, new quests and new companions that are either the part of the main story or have some interconnection with it. Separate stories... why? Just release another game and reap full reward.

 

[Lacrymas]

It depends on a lot of things. It's good the expansions to Neverwinter Nights 1 didn't have anything to do with base game for example. I like DLCs specifically aimed at providing an optional challenge too (Seeker, Slayer, Survivor).

As for unrelated adventures within the base game. What's the point most of the time? White March 1 is the best content for PoE1, but it goes through the base game like a bulldozer. PoE2's DLCs worked better because the entire game is a series of unrelated adventures and you know what you are getting into. Mid-level DLC for most RPGs unbalance the whole thing dramatically.

 

[Lacrymas]

Beneath the Stolen Lands is more ok on that front, but the concept itself is neither good nor well-made.

They screwed up with this one. Imagine if we could play the DLC with a new character and then, after the completion, import it to the main game, to be used as a companion! That would be super interesting, but they got it wrong, with some lazy design.

You can't finish an endless dungeon, though? Or you mean the version that is in the base game? Using your own character as a companion must be handled very well. If it's not a blank slate, it's easier. Beneath the Stolen Lands is not good because it's very shoddily made due to Unity's nature and procedural generation, and the fact I'm not looking for a(n) (endless) procedural dungeon for my RPGs, I have roguelikes for that.

 

[AliceAlcina]

It depends on a lot of things. It's good the expansions to Neverwinter Nights 1 didn't have anything to do with base game for example. I like DLCs specifically aimed at providing an optional challenge too (Seeker, Slayer, Survivor).

As for unrelated adventures within the base game. What's the point most of the time? White March 1 is the best content for PoE1, but it goes through the base game like a bulldozer. PoE2's DLCs worked better because the entire game is a series of unrelated adventures and you know what you are getting into. Mid-level DLC for most RPGs unbalance the whole thing dramatically.

come on, I loved NWN official campaigns.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I guess I will need to organize my summer time off around release date of this game :D

Or rather Christmas vacation.

 

[Lacrymas]

It depends on a lot of things. It's good the expansions to Neverwinter Nights 1 didn't have anything to do with base game for example. I like DLCs specifically aimed at providing an optional challenge too (Seeker, Slayer, Survivor).

As for unrelated adventures within the base game. What's the point most of the time? White March 1 is the best content for PoE1, but it goes through the base game like a bulldozer. PoE2's DLCs worked better because the entire game is a series of unrelated adventures and you know what you are getting into. Mid-level DLC for most RPGs unbalance the whole thing dramatically.

come on, I loved NWN official campaigns.

That's why I said it's good they don't have anything to do with the base game? Or you mean the OC specifically? Yeah, no.

 

[AliceAlcina]

You lost me, but I don't care for argument... I'm somehow slow these days

 

[razvedchiki]

backers should get the dlcs for free.

 

[NJClaw]

Also "Please, rate an option to import your character from one adventure-DLC to another on a scale from 1 to 5, where 1 is “Awful” and 5 is “Great”" and the other one. Are these related adventures? Or just random? It depends on the format. Is the entire game/expansion a series of unrelated adventures you can go through with the same character? This survey is shooting itself in the foot.

You are overthinking it, they are probably going to ignore those surveys anyways. Or, at best, they are going to use the results to reinforce an already planned decision.

 

[TT1]

Beneath the Stolen Lands is more ok on that front, but the concept itself is neither good nor well-made.

They screwed up with this one. Imagine if we could play the DLC with a new character and then, after the completion, import it to the main game, to be used as a companion! That would be super interesting, but they got it wrong, with some lazy design.

You can't finish an endless dungeon, though? Or you mean the version that is in the base game? Using your own character as a companion must be handled very well. If it's not a blank slate, it's easier.

Oh fuck, I forgot it is endless. They could have done it something to return the PC to the main world at some point. The way it is, its just a random CYOA dungeon with no impact whatsoever.

They could have done the same for Varnhold's Lot or any other DLC where you have to start a new player character. Just let me play with it in my main game as a companion.

 

[Trashos]

I see they are insisting on dlc with a brand new character. As far as I am concerned, you either make a fantastic new short game that is unrelated to the main campaign or it should be with your main campaign character.

I would kill for a DLCs to work like New Vegas. Interconnected betweem them and the base game. Where the last DLC is ending that takes your actions up to that point , like Lonesome Road with Ulysses dialogue battle in Lonesome Road.

I am with you, but I stress the importance of re-balancing the main campaign after the dlc, like Sawyer did for New Vegas with his mod.

 

[smaug]

for dlc? please, awesome mega-dungeons and cool battles

 

[NJClaw]

Guys, why are you letting them drag you into this?

The only right answer to "what kind of DLCs do you want?" is NO. You are actively asking to be scammed. Less DLCs, more complete games.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The only right answer to "what kind of DLCs do you want?" is NO. You are actively asking to be scammed. Less DLCs, more complete games.

I like DLC's.

 

[RNGsus]

I like the thought of expansions.

 

[AliceAlcina]

I like Hordes.

 

[Ghulgothas]

I’d like something comparable to Throne of Bhaal or Heart of Winter.

 

[Lacrymas]

Oh fuck, I forgot it is endless. They could have done it something to return the PC to the main world at some point. The way it is, its just a random CYOA dungeon with no impact whatsoever.

Isn't the dungeon in the base game only 10 floors and you fight a huge bug at the end or whatever? The portion outside of the base game, i.e. the actual procedural dungeon you select in the main menu, is not good imo.

Guys, why are you letting them drag you into this?
The only right answer to "what kind of DLCs do you want?" is NO. You are actively asking to be scammed. Less DLCs, more complete games.

You might be thinking DLC only means small content drip-fed to you. Expansions are also technically DLC because who buys physical copies in this day and age? Collectors obviously, but that's not the point. There's also something to be said about DLC which technically completes a game (the theoretical DLC for Solasta which adds all the classes), but it was the way it is due to budgetary constraints. Being against good DLC is only hurting indie devs and small studios. Besides, most complaints against poor, overpriced, inappropriate, or day-1 DLC are aimed at AAA studios that do shit like that, or Paradox.

 

[smaug]

dlc should be at least 65 hours of additional content, if not, don't bother

 

[NJClaw]

You might be thinking DLC only means small content drip-fed to you. Expansions are also technically DLC because who buys physical copies in this day and age? Collectors obviously, but that's not the point. There's also something to be said about DLC which technically completes a game (the theoretical DLC for Solasta which adds all the classes), but it was the way it is due to budgetary constraints. Being against good DLC is only hurting indie devs and small studios.

DLCs done right are so rare that it's hard to hurt someone that doesn't deserve it by being against them. It's not like I'm against good DLCs, it's just that good DLCs are nothing more than a chimera 99% of the times.

Kingmaker is one of my favorite games of the last few years, yet its DLCs suck big hairy balls: the kineticist is a fun class, but 6€ for a class, a companion, and a quest are an insult; 95% of the content in Beneath the Stolen Lands (basically everything except the bosses) sucks ass. If you are trying to produce a "good" DLC, you are probably creating a new game (like Team Cherry did with their last planned DLC for Hollow Knight, which became an entirely new game, Silksong).

I guess I consider The White March, Beast of Winter, and Forgotten Sanctum to be good DLCs, but they are still overpriced and should have been in the base game to begin with. Same thing with The Old Hunters, Ashes of Ariandel, and The Ringed City: they are great, but I'm paying 15€ for a 3-hours experience. We don't want DLCs because they are a good thing for games, we want DLCs because most games are content-starved and we are getting used to it (that's not the case for Kingmaker, but this doesn't change the fact that its DLCs suck).

 

[Catacombs]

The only right answer to "what kind of DLCs do you want?" is NO. You are actively asking to be scammed. Less DLCs, more complete games.

I like DLC's.

Disastrously long cocks.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I don't understand this socialism. "It is overpriced", "it is an insult" and so on. Is Italy a communist country now? Gianni Rodari was right?

If it is a market, and something is too expensive - you do not buy it. If something is OK for someone they buy it. But these collective shaming campaigns remind me of both my childhood in "pioneer camps" and of the fear of SJW boycotts that make modern Western games unplayable.

 

[Lacrymas]

DLCs done right are so rare that it's hard to hurt someone that doesn't deserve it by being against them. It's not like I'm against good DLCs, it's just that good DLCs are nothing more than a chimera 99% of the times.

Kingmaker is one of my favorite games of the last few years, yet its DLCs suck big hairy balls: the kineticist is a fun class, but 6€ for a class, a companion, and a quest are an insult; 95% of the content in Beneath the Stolen Lands (basically everything except the bosses) sucks ass. If you are trying to produce a "good" DLC, you are probably creating a new game (like Team Cherry did with their last planned DLC for Hollow Knight, which became an entirely new game, Silksong).

I guess I consider The White March, Beast of Winter, and Forgotten Sanctum to be good DLCs, but they are still overpriced and should have been in the base game to begin with. Same thing with The Old Hunters, Ashes of Ariandel, and The Ringed City: they are great, but I'm paying 15€ for a 3-hours experience. We don't want DLCs because they are a good thing for games, we want DLCs because most games are content-starved and we are getting used to it (that's not the case for Kingmaker, but this doesn't change the fact that its DLCs suck).

Kingmaker's DLCs do suck. I got them severely discounted, and I still think I overpaid for the single class/race one. The best DLC for me are things like Ashes of Malmouth/Forgotten Gods/Crucible for Grim Dawn, the DLC for ToME, and the expansions for AoW3. Stuff that adds immeasurable replay value by refining the game, and adding more ways to play base game. Adding more content is a plus. Then I like stuff like classic expansions that straight up add meaty content. Then it's everything else.

But if it's a matter of getting all the classes for Solasta vs not getting them, I'd rather get them. Solasta will definitely feel anemic at release without stuff like Druids, Warlocks, or Bards. It has to be reasonably priced, though, I'm not gonna pay 20 euros for the 6 remaining classes.

 

[CaesarCzech]

The only right answer to "what kind of DLCs do you want?" is NO. You are actively asking to be scammed. Less DLCs, more complete games.

I like DLC's.

THE NAME. THE NAME.

 

[Xamenos]

but 6€ for a class, a companion, and a quest are an insult

What price would you consider fair for it? It has been frequently discounted, and I think for more than half off. I find it entirely reasonable when compared to other similar DLC. The golem companion for Dragon Age: Origins cost 10 bucks, iirc.