Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Gyor]

And that's why foxes suck. Even their lore sucks and was made just to beat meat....
But yeah real talk why human form? Are they connected somehow in lore? Why not orcs or elfs? How? Why?

Kitsune are from Japanese mythology you tool, they were not created to beat your meat too.

 

[Gargaune]

You can have gods cover the same ground without having the exact same aspects and personality. It is especially egregious with Pharasma. Kelemvor is an abnormal god of the dead with his hatred for all undead and his insistence to use atheists as building material. And Pharasma copied both his abnormalities, though she's keeping atheist souls as pearls in her vault instead.

Tangent nitpick, but when it comes to Kelemvor's continued use of the Wall of the Faithless, it's not his insistence, technically speaking. Quite the opposite, it's a compromise he's had to make.

Either way, Golarion's just a rebag of the Forgotten Realms to a certain extent, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, from the little I've read, I think I like it better when it's copying 3.5E FR rather than when it's coming up with new stuff.

 

[Delterius]

only cool thing about pharasma is that she had to create her own elite assassins corps due to all the random ways one can become immortal in this cursed godawful setting

 

[fantadomat]

Ohhh just let me play as glorious human and purge all the infidels!


Also how is the lore on the gods in this one? I mean,do you get to choose own personal god or is the whole crusade fallowing a single deity?

Afaik, this crusade has nothing to do with any gods.

It seems the Crusade will take a little detour first, to cleanse the kitsune.

Aren't they just a playable race and not part of the story/game???

 

[fantadomat]

only cool thing about pharasma is that she had to create her own elite assassins corps due to all the random ways one can become immortal in this cursed godawful setting

Well the pathfinder is a poor man's D&D. If it wasn't for the kingmaker game,most people wouldn't have knew that existed. Also having a neggress as goddess of death,yeah truly shit setting made by libtard fanfic asocial weirdos.

 

[Nortar]

Also having a neggress as goddess of death,yeah truly shit setting made by libtard fanfic asocial weirdos.

You mean like Kali and Hel?

 

[Xamenos]

Tangent nitpick, but when it comes to Kelemvor's continued use of the Wall of the Faithless, it's not his insistence, technically speaking. Quite the opposite, it's a compromise he's had to make.

Either way, Golarion's just a rebag of the Forgotten Realms to a certain extent, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, from the little I've read, I think I like it better when it's copying 3.5E FR rather than when it's coming up with new stuff.

True, the other gods twisted his arm during Cyric's trial into rebuilding that wall and making the atheists pay for it. And Pharasma uses the pearls she makes from atheist souls to repel Groetus. But the why doesn't really matter when the what is so similar.

On one had, I kinda pity Paizo for their setting's shittyness. They had the rug pulled from unter them when Wizards suddenly cut all 3rd party support with the move to 4E. On the other, is that really the best they could do, even on such short notice? Could they do more than copy Greenwood's homework and change some names and generds?

 

[Delterius]

Tangent nitpick, but when it comes to Kelemvor's continued use of the Wall of the Faithless, it's not his insistence, technically speaking. Quite the opposite, it's a compromise he's had to make.

Either way, Golarion's just a rebag of the Forgotten Realms to a certain extent, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, from the little I've read, I think I like it better when it's copying 3.5E FR rather than when it's coming up with new stuff.

True, the other gods twisted his arm during Cyric's trial into rebuilding that wall and making the atheists pay for it. And Pharasma uses the pearls she makes from atheist souls to repel Groetus. But the why doesn't really matter when the what is so similar.

On one had, I kinda pity Paizo for their setting's shittyness. They had the rug pulled from unter them when Wizards suddenly cut all 3rd party support with the move to 4E. On the other, is that really the best they could do, even on such short notice? Could they do more than copy Greenwood's homework and change some names and generds?

the why is kinda important when you read that pharasma is the first being of creation, that she's grooming her successor for when the world implodes, that lovecraftian copy pastas are waiting to consume existence and groetus may or may not be c'thullu

 

[AwesomeButton]

Aren't they just a playable race and not part of the story/game???

I don't know, but I guess it won't be like the player can be the only kitsune in the game. If that's the case, so much the better.

 

[Xamenos]

the why is kinda important when you read that pharasma is the first being of creation, that she's grooming her successor for when the world implodes, that lovecraftian copy pastas are waiting to consume existence and groetus may or may not be c'thullu

Almost no one reads that shit. "He hates undead and makes atheists into bricks" is the sum total of what 90% of the players know about Kelemvor. Swap one word (bricks into pearls) and you get Pharasma. It is somewhat lazy on their end.

 

[Delterius]

Almost no one reads that shit.

thanks for erasing my people

 

[Gyor]

Tangent nitpick, but when it comes to Kelemvor's continued use of the Wall of the Faithless, it's not his insistence, technically speaking. Quite the opposite, it's a compromise he's had to make.

Either way, Golarion's just a rebag of the Forgotten Realms to a certain extent, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, from the little I've read, I think I like it better when it's copying 3.5E FR rather than when it's coming up with new stuff.

True, the other gods twisted his arm during Cyric's trial into rebuilding that wall and making the atheists pay for it. And Pharasma uses the pearls she makes from atheist souls to repel Groetus. But the why doesn't really matter when the what is so similar.

On one had, I kinda pity Paizo for their setting's shittyness. They had the rug pulled from unter them when Wizards suddenly cut all 3rd party support with the move to 4E. On the other, is that really the best they could do, even on such short notice? Could they do more than copy Greenwood's homework and change some names and generds?

They didn't just copy paste Greenwood's work, they hired him to help build Golarion which like the love child of the Forgotten Realms and Mystara, with hints of Ravenloft in places. He was apart of the group that worked on the original Golaron Setting.

 

[Xamenos]

They didn't just copy paste Greenwood's work, they hired him to help build Golarion which like the love child of the Forgotten Realms and Mystara, with hints of Ravenloft in places. He was apart of the group that worked on the original Golaron Setting.

Afaik, he just designed some monsters and other unimportant stuff just so they could put his name in it.

 

[Gyor]

They didn't just copy paste Greenwood's work, they hired him to help build Golarion which like the love child of the Forgotten Realms and Mystara, with hints of Ravenloft in places. He was apart of the group that worked on the original Golaron Setting.

Afaik, he just designed some monsters and other unimportant stuff just so they could put his name in it.

Figures, then they pillage his, Jeff Grubbs, and the Mystara writers for ideas to build Golarion. Given how influencial FR was on Golarion Ed deserved some credit either way.

But Ed's, ideas aren't the only ones they Pillaged. Outside of the core regions of FR Jeff Grubbs was more influential then Ed,, because it was his choices that caused FR to cannibalize other settings, which caused other regions to be altered to fit that.

Jeff Grubbs created Zakhara (Al Qadim), Maztica, and he had FR cannibalize Bloodstone Pass, Desert of Desolation, Oriental, Adventures/Kara Tur, TSR UK Authorian Celtic/Nordic Setting that became the Moonshaes, and it's own region of Spelljammer (realmspace). It's only grown bigger since.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

But Ed's, ideas aren't the only ones they Pillaged. Outside of the core regions of FR Jeff Grubbs was more influential then Ed,, because it was his choices that caused FR to cannibalize other settings, which caused other regions to be altered to fit that.

Jeff Grubbs created Zakhara (Al Qadim), Maztica, and he had FR cannibalize Bloodstone Pass, Desert of Desolation, Oriental, Adventures/Kara Tur, TSR UK Authorian Celtic/Nordic Setting that became the Moonshaes, and it's own region of Spelljammer (realmspace). It's only grown bigger since.

Now that explains why FR always felt so schizophrenic to me. It was ridiculous to have a vague fantasy land, not really based on anything specific in the middle of the map and then have it surrounded by not-Arabia, not-China, not-Mongols, not-Americas and not-UK.
I never expected that it was him specifically that was responsible for all that decline. Is there some good source on how was the FR developed?

 

[Xamenos]

But Ed's, ideas aren't the only ones they Pillaged. Outside of the core regions of FR Jeff Grubbs was more influential then Ed,, because it was his choices that caused FR to cannibalize other settings, which caused other regions to be altered to fit that.

Jeff Grubbs created Zakhara (Al Qadim), Maztica, and he had FR cannibalize Bloodstone Pass, Desert of Desolation, Oriental, Adventures/Kara Tur, TSR UK Authorian Celtic/Nordic Setting that became the Moonshaes, and it's own region of Spelljammer (realmspace). It's only grown bigger since.

Now that explains why FR always felt so schizophrenic to me. It was ridiculous to have a vague fantasy land, not really based on anything specific in the middle of the map and then have it surrounded by not-Arabia, not-China, not-Mongols, not-Americas and not-UK.
I never expected that it was him specifically that was responsible for all that decline. Is there some good source on how was the FR developed?

I don't think there's a comprehensive one, no. My understanding, from reading various interviews and articles over the years, is that Shadowdale was created first and was the focus of Greenwood's early campaigns. Later he expanded the setting west to the Sword Coast, from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter. It was about at this point that he ceded the setting to TSR, who grafted everything around this core as Gyor described. Salvatore wrote the first Drizzt novels set in the Spine of the World, and had a hand in shaping it. And then they stole the Underdark from Grayhawk.

Of course, it all happened because Gygax kept the rights to Grayhawk and the fucks who ousted him really, really didn't want to pay him a dime.

 

[Cryomancer]

Guys, is leveling slower or quicker on alpha? IMO the right leveling process should be something like

Lv 1 to 5 - Extremely quickly (less than 10% of main story length)
Lv 5 to 10 - Quick (around 20% to 30% of main story length)
Lv 10 to 15 - Slow (around 40% to 50% of main story length)
Lv 15 to 20 - Extremely slow. ( only by playing all DLC's and side content, he can reach near lv cap. A less completitionist guy should only be around lv 17 on end game)

 

[Sarkile]

It felt pretty quick, but it was comparable to the AP. I assume the perceived difference is due to the shorter duration of WOTR, and the fact that it's intended to hit 20 before the end of the game compared to Kingmaker ending at 17 or 18 or so. If it helps, I felt better about the WoTR Alpha than I did the initial Kingmaker Beta. And the latter was still good. I am hopeful that this will be an extremely high quality game.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Guys, is leveling slower or quicker on alpha? IMO the right leveling process should be something like

Lv 1 to 5 - Extremely quickly (less than 10% of main story length)
Lv 5 to 10 - Quick (around 20% to 30% of main story length)
Lv 10 to 15 - Slow (around 40% to 50% of main story length)
Lv 15 to 20 - Extremely slow. ( only by playing all DLC's and side content, he can reach near lv cap. A less completitionist guy should only be around lv 17 on end game)

Why would you want it to be this way - genuine question - when your character's power grows the most going from lvl 1 to lvl 2? BG1 made a 40+ hr game from a level 1 to level 7/8ish campaign. By the end of BG2 you are hardly noticing picking up HLAs left and right as you go past 20. You will notice picking up your 3rd or 4th feat a lot more than your 12th.

 

[Cryomancer]

Guys, is leveling slower or quicker on alpha? IMO the right leveling process should be something like

Lv 1 to 5 - Extremely quickly (less than 10% of main story length)
Lv 5 to 10 - Quick (around 20% to 30% of main story length)
Lv 10 to 15 - Slow (around 40% to 50% of main story length)
Lv 15 to 20 - Extremely slow. ( only by playing all DLC's and side content, he can reach near lv cap. A less completitionist guy should only be around lv 17 on end game)

Why would you want it to be this way - genuine question - when your character's power grows the most going from lvl 1 to lvl 2? BG1 made a 40+ hr game from a level 1 to level 7/8ish campaign. By the end of BG2 you are hardly noticing picking up HLAs left and right as you go past 20. You will notice picking up your 3rd or 4th feat a lot more than your 12th.

BG2:SoA and ToB are different cases. BG1 was made to be a long low level campaign and BG2 to be a medium level campaign. ToB a high to epic level. And you only get HLA on BG2 if you play as a Thief. Figthers caps on lv 19 and mages on 16(soa, not tob or ee). About the idea that you don't notice the leveling after higher level, is partially truth. BUT getting a spell like Tenser's transformation or Finger of Death is extremely satisfying on BG2:SoA You spend most time on BG1 using autoattacks and honestly, look to kingmaker. The chapter 1 and first half of the 2 are not where the game shines.

Some people enjoy low level gameplay but a mythic adventure about ending ending a invasion from the abyss is not a tale about a guy who grow up on candlekeep and deal with relative mundane problems.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Why would you want it to be this way - genuine question - when your character's power grows the most going from lvl 1 to lvl 2?

Because low level RPG is boring as shit. Yes, including the first 25 hours of BG1.

 

[Lacrymas]

1 to 10 is the best D&D range, so.

 

[raptor_jesus]

Guys, is leveling slower or quicker on alpha? IMO the right leveling process should be something like

Lv 1 to 5 - Extremely quickly (less than 10% of main story length)
Lv 5 to 10 - Quick (around 20% to 30% of main story length)
Lv 10 to 15 - Slow (around 40% to 50% of main story length)
Lv 15 to 20 - Extremely slow. ( only by playing all DLC's and side content, he can reach near lv cap. A less completitionist guy should only be around lv 17 on end game)

Why would you want to have to pay money to reach max level?

 

[Roguey]

Why would you want it to be this way - genuine question - when your character's power grows the most going from lvl 1 to lvl 2?

Levels 1-2 are unenjoyable to play in D&D-based crpgs. Get up to 3 asap then slow down a bit is a curve that works well enough.

 

[Daidre]

And you only get HLA on BG2 if you play as a Thief. Figthers caps on lv 19 and mages on 16(soa, not tob or ee).

You could never get HLA in pure SoA, and with ToB installed it never mattered at what level some class, like Thief, is capped with 2 950 000 xp limit - everyone get HLA at first level up after that number, so Bard, for example, is getting his first HLA at lvl 24 and Mage - at lvl 18.