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KickStarter Pathologic 2 (AKA Pathologic remake)

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Crooked Bee, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

    Rahdulan
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    Is it just me or has there or has there been a relatively high output of quality videos for the game in the last few months or so? Makes you wonder how is Ice-Pick Lodge paying all these people.

     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  2. oasis789 Arcane

    oasis789
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    .
     
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  3. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Show Spoiler
    I did! Two brutes didnt allow me to go in, so I went to the town hall, that annoying fucker said some shit, but I think i got the key/was allowed to it, but when i got back, Bachelor didnt allow me entrance or something. The next day, Master called me, and i did that quest, giving the Judges permit to the fucker in the diseased house.
     
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  4. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    Show Spoiler
    But you never actually went *inside*? Oof. Yeah, I guess you done got cucked - I was able to explore it for the first time on the 2nd day. You should be able to return via event on the 4th or so day, inshallah.
     
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  5. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Eh, perhaps its for the best. My OCD focus on filling circles wasnt leading anywhere anyhow.
     
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  6. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    I seriously dislike the death mechanic tho. If you were allowed to continue from where you died, it would make sense. This way? it just encourages loading when you get in sticky situations - cuz you just gonna end up where you were, but with less health.
     
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  7. HansDampf Prophet

    HansDampf
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    But then you can't chat with Mark Immortell.
     
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  8. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Only now do I understand this post...
     
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  9. HansDampf Prophet

    HansDampf
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    It's weird how he first discusses all the different strategies required to keep your survival meters in check, but then seemingly shuts his brain off whenever he engages in combat. Sure, the combat is clunky. But you don't just waltz through a burnt district expecting to be safe. If you are attacked by 4 muggers carrying knifes, with only 25% of your health intact, no gun ready, and you don't run away, you deserve to lose an hour of progress. It is always possible to run away, even when you are low on stamina. Just hide in houses if necessary. You don't have to fight everyone who is attacking you. It only wastes time anyway. Every combat situation is avoidable with only one exception. Melee against multiple enemies is supposed to be overwhelming. He bought a shotgun for safety but it wasn't loaded? Same mistake as not getting food in time and starving to death.
     
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  10. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    day fucking six.

    Show Spoiler
    Somehow, i managed to keep everyone safe and healthy up to now (i gave those miracle shits to nobkin and the architect; i like the architect, and my father seemed to like the little shit. Now, that little bitch Khan managed to get infected too (im 2-3 hours from day 7, time to quit, but i wanted to see whats gonna happen after midngiht, so yeah, i skipped time till i ran out of food). Should i waste my only remaining cure shit on him? I saw that lots of districts get infected on day 7-8, which means, shitton of fucking stuff to administer, and shitton of chances for dice to screw me in the ass, yeah. Pls tell me remaining 4 days dont infect that many main characters (lol)


    Its brilliant. The game actually fucking hurts me, its tiring as all hell, and yet, i cant stop playing it.
     
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  11. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    oh, another thing - how different is pathologic 2 from the first one really? is it a strict improvement? I know some plot stuff is changed, but is it strictly for the better?

    90% of people say they had 0 idea wth is going on when they played classic, leaving it on day 1 or 2 - but i had no such problems with pathologic 2 - right from the start, your objective is clear. Sure, you dont know what precisely to do, or whats going on, but you know what your supposed to do, and how to remain in the game.
     
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  12. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    v1rus don't use schmowders, keep them for later. Cured people may get infected again.
     
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  13. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    I don't believe in "strict improvements" but in regards to the plot while I didn't have much trouble following the original in its native language, I will say that P2's writing felt to me like it was more concise without losing the charm. People say more with less, not only in terms of raw plot points but also in terms or revealing their character. I felt like I had a better grasp of the various factions earlier in P2 without losing that feeling of mystery if that makes sense. It really felt like the same or similar group of people coming back to the original script 10 years later and going over what to add, what to remove, what to elaborate on and what to streamline - etc.

    The core idea of the game is also different. The ending dilemma is practically the same, but its framing has changed. This is another reason why I think one can find value in player Bachelor's playthrough from the original, at least until its P2 analogue comes out - that scenario really explores the "Utopia" part of "Mor. Utopia."
     
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  14. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    And yeah idk why people shit on the combat so much. Its a janky clusterfuck against multiple people but I assumed that was sort of the point. If you have to fight multiple friends, either bring a gun to even the score before the melee or use chokepoints to funnel them. Its like in that one movie the uh the old man from I think north korea where the guy fights the mans in the corridor right
     
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  15. Jenkem Cipher Patron

    Jenkem
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    Make the Codex Great Again!
    save murky or you are a piece of shit
     
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  16. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Beat teh gaem.

    Its fucking brilliant.

    There are some stuff I dislike about it, but pros outweigh the cons, by far; heck, when a project is THIS fucking ambitious, its bound to throw some people of with certain aspects, just because teh sheer scope of it. I still dont like the whole Mark Immortel thing, death mechanic could be better, RNG causing the deaths of npcs, and some other minor stuff prolly. But it certainly was one of the greatest, most ambitious and unique games i ever played.

    This fucking game really did make the bloody town alive.


    Now, for some mandatory questions -

    Show Spoiler


    1. How does the game progress if you miss/fuck up important parts? The same way? You dont find a cure, but by the end, you somehow manage to cure the entire city?
    2. What are the differences in mechanics between classic and 2?
    3. What are the biggest differences in plot points (Haruspex campaign ofc) between classic and 2?
    4. Just how different were character campaigns? From what Ive seen in 2, they must have been completely different - I cant imagine Bachelor or Clara doing lots of stuff haruspex did, and I certainly cant imagine them having the same resolution to the plague.
    5. Is the cast of NPCs same in all three campaigns? I can imagine some characters leaving (the bull guy), and new ones being introduced.
    6. any bonuses in pathologic 2 for keeping all characters alive? I read somewhere that the first game does reward you, but i cant find it now.

     
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  17. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    Show Spoiler

    What ending did you choose? What is your take on it?

    1. There are setbacks but overall the ending isn't really dependent on getting the panacea early. Remember that its ultimately Bachelor who "diagnozes" the illness of the town by identifying that the Polyhedron can be destroyed to reveal a wellspring of blood. Getting the panacea early saves Rubin and gives you 2 additional panaceas to go around come the final days.
    2. The main gameplay is more or less the same in 1, but due to much fewer choices and the lack of certain features like sprinting and boat travel its a much more tedious and less engaging experience. On the other hand 1 is also much easier to break and have a risk-free time with, both because it allows to savescum and because you can farm resources pretty easily once you know how.
    3. Never played the original Haruspex campaign but overall quite a lot of plot points are different even if they end up leading you to the same thing. The townspeople turn on Haruspex quite a few more times in the original, for example, at some point even imprisoning him (not just on day 1). The Minotaur/Foreman is more of an antagonist at the end who has you injected with various poisons and has you run trials to have you prove yourself as his replacement and then you have an edgy boss battle with him (pretty gamey shit, 2 does it much more elegantly). There is also a memorable plotline where something really tragic happens due to a complete coincidence - actually, a few times - actually the entire fucking game is a string of these events - so while a lot of people miss its inclusion I think 2 has more than enough of its own new tragedies to replace that with (getting Lara a supply of water in particular is pretty OH FUCK)

    Like I alluded to previously, the biggest change by far is the main question posed by the game. The endings of both games are the same (destroy the Polyhedron or destroy the Town) but the focus and implications are different. 1 was all about a utopia. What does it take to create a perfect order on earth? How far would you be willing to go to make the world you want to see? For post-soviet people this is indeed a very compelling question. In 1, the focus is either on preserving this great and terrible new order of the Cains - regardless of the fact that it either caused or aggravated the Pest by the sheer impossibility of it - at the cost of the old world, or you maintain the old, stagnant status quo by sacrificing the Polyhedron. In 2, while some of that dilemma is present, the focus is much more on transformation, fantastical vs reality, and a kind of autopsy of man. The town is a machine - humanity used to labor within a kind of primordial environment until they decided to become their own environment and created towns, which are systems unto themselves (this is reinforced by the many hierarchies, traditions, and systems of oppression created solely to keep the town running - people created the town but now the town is shaping the people). Is this humanity's yoke or is this system just as deserving of perpetuation as the state of nature?

    The interesting bit is that 2 completely turns the progress vs order dilemma on its head - preserving the polyhedron now is simultaneously the progressive (preserve the impossible miracle of the cains) AND the regressive (destroy civilization and revert humanity to a baser form) choice...at least according to Haruspex' perspective. Note that I am being purposefully vague about the true value of the Polyhedron - which is elucidated on more in the Bachelor's playthrough - and of course much of your view of the game varies based on your own personal interpretation.

    4. Every quest/dialogue is different although many general events intersect and you get to see them from a different perspective. For example as Bachelor you will interact with the Haruspex, at times aiding him and at times working against him and at times accidentally fucking up his plans much like as Haruspex you did the same to Bachelor. The ending is the same. This is important because instead of giving the characters different endings, what they get instead is different sets of facts. As Haruspex, you are supposed to find the destruction of the polyhedron and the preservation of the town a much more persuasive choice. As Bachelor, for reasons I won't spoil, the opposite is true - this is why the Bachelor begs Haruspex to preserve the tower on the final day. You will get a very different perspective on the whole dilemma and its going to be, like, really sick, yo. This is by far one of the most interesting parts of the game for me, the way it plays with perspective to convince you of a certain character's canon ending as opposed to just forcing you to pick something different from last time.

    5. In 1 the cast was the same. However, the characters each protagonist primarily interacts with are different. Bachelor had way more to do with the elite of the town and the Cains in particular. He also saw a much less sympathetic view of the Vlads (old Vlad in particular) and of the Steppe people. In the original the Bachelor never visited the Abbatoir or spoke with the Bull-Foreman (I don't see why that would change in 2). What he did do was visit the Polyhedron, where Haruspex never goes. Meanwhile Haruspex interacts way more with the children and core town's people, goes to the Abbatoir, barely talks to the Cains, etc etc etc

    6. Its complicated. In 1 you were locked into your "canon" ending (Bachelor: destroy town. Haruspex: destroy the Polyhedron. Clara: [REDACTED]) as long as you saved the people on your list (if you remember, for Haruspex its the kids of the town). However, if you play efficiently and also save the people from another character's list, you get to pick their ending, too (except for Clara's because [REDACTED]) There are also a few extra narrative secrets that get unlocked for each group of characters you save which I won't spoil.

    In 2, once again things are much more elegant. Haruspex can always choose between the two endings available to him, but they are affected by the survival of each character. In essence you end up with your own personalized ending variation based on each character you save. Save young vlad and he will implement a bunch of reforms to make the city's industry less exploitative. Save the kids - as your dad wanted you to - and the town ends up with a future. Etc, etc. In my case, it just so happened that nearly all of the old generation died (the saburovs, Old Vlad, georgiy Kain, etc) and so did the steppe characters, but their children survived, which I thought was a fucking perfect representation of rebirth - just like dad wanted, the plague inoculated the town of its traditional roots and forced it to grow new ones.

     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  18. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    I hope they'll change "real" ending, I hated it.
    The game is already too meta.
     
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  19. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    Show Spoiler
    Real ending being Changelings?
     
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  20. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    no, real ending is when you save people from every character's list.
     
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  21. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    I don't think the game needs the real ending anymore now that its extremely explicitly framed as a theater performance (as opposed to the original where it was, while pretty obvious, rather implicit). Also just by going the interview with Dybowski-san, it looks like he reconsidered some of the things he used to find clever some ten years ago, such as the "Utopia" part of the name, so it could be that the same can be said for the crazier of the two meta narratives. That being said, a version of what you call the "real" ending already exists in the game.

    Show Spoiler
    Climb to the top of the polyhedron after destroying the town for some interesting conversations
     
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  22. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    yeah, i did. It was more of a "message from devs", than a full blown 4th wall breaking.
     
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  23. HansDampf Prophet

    HansDampf
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    Show Spoiler
    What if you don't develop a panacea at all?
     
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  24. Lithium Flower Magister

    Lithium Flower
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    Show Spoiler
    I don't know, I didn't follow through with that route but the thing about Haruspex is that his storyline relies on mysticism and intuitive knowledge. Think about discovering living blood in the first place - he gets that information from a dream. So the storyline doesn't really depend on him discovering the panacea on Day 6 or even going to the Abbatoir - its possible he gets a vision later down the line or is struck by the revelation that blood from ground = healsies, which then comes up after Bachelor realizes that the polyhedron penetrated deep into the ground and that there is blood swelling up from the resulting "wound."
     
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  25. North Gibraltarian Dog Educated

    North Gibraltarian Dog
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    I played and finished the game some weeks ago. I enjoyed my time playing it, it's a good game with a lot of interesting design ideas, however my impression on the first days was that the game was a simple casualized/dumbed down version of the original with new and flashy but less inspired graphics, with the permanent consequences on saves and the extension of survival mechanics as the only interesting novelties. After advance some days, I started to appreciate some other changes and new features, to understand how its difficulty level is probably higher compared with the original (even if by difficulty to beat the time-limit, mostly) and has more playable content than the respective Haruspex campaign in the original game.

    However I still can't say Pathologic 2 is an improvement over the original, the limited save system, the mandatory tutorial masked as narrative prologue, the timing and amount of stuff to do per day with shorter time scale, the witcher senses and the map marked objectives, the absence of true exploration, the too long theatre performances, the lack of original ethereal athmosphere, the more mundane town art design (the new kin is mostly great), the rushed way to present some characters reputations and haruspex pre-fixed opinion on them (by dialogue choices), etc, make me doubt about the totally inclined condition of this new version.


    I'm now replaying Haruspex path in Pathologic HD, when I finish it I will write a extensive comparative here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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