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Turn-Based Tactics Phantom Doctrine - "tactical Cold War conspiracy thriller" by Hard West devs

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Kacper Szymczak


Any other streamers that will get the game so we can check this out? And most important - will Beaglerush get a preview? HE is the benchmark for "is the game too easy" after all those xcom ironman legendary long war runs.
 
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

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Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Kacper Szymczak


Any other streamers that will get the game so we can check this out? And most important - will Beaglerush get a preview? HE is the benchmark for "is the game too easy" after all those xcom ironman legendary long war runs.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
tumblr_o1qy7iQuVR1v40m9to1_500.gif
 
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
107
Any other streamers that will get the game so we can check this out?
Yes! Dunno the names though. Our number one goal right now is to raise title awareness widely and broadly, because the number one feedback we get is "how come I've never heard of this?". Sadly, it's most probable that hardcore audiences alone won't get us where we need to be.
I'm pretty sure that the closer we get to release, the more youtubers and streamers will get a demo or preview build to check the game out.
 

mwnn85

Savant
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
210

another retarded streamer personality
That poor chap is due a complete mental meltdown once the game demands the management on 30+ agents on several continents.
That pipe will be loaded up with something a bit stronger than vapour!
What's the funny ventriloquism act all about? I can't believe people pay to watch this sh*t.

I was a little upset that we didn't see casualties in the opening mission - he tried his best after all.
If this game was Rogue Spear at least two of them would've been perma-incapacitated, eating baby food for the rest of their adult lives.
But at least he got wiped at the end!

A reoccurring theme is that the streamers are struggling with some of the game's mechanics both on the global map and the battle layer.
He didn't appear to realise that the enemy units/security aren't an issue as long as you don't trigger them. (#source)
He sent his agents to the suspicious provinces in a less than ideal order (#source)
He could've sent his two agents on the first scouting mission but didn't (#source)
He didn't seem to grasp that you're better off leaving your agents spread across the map unless they require training/medical assistance, etc.
He didn't seem to realise that you can send agents from province to province directly without going back to base. (#source)

A few suggestions...

Could the game better show what the maximum agent limit is on a mission - not just the minimum requirement? The streamer went full retardo. It's quite a simple fix i.e. 1/2, 1/4, etc (#source) (#source2)
Likewise the mission launch screen should probably first pick from agents that are already inside the province - that seemed like a bit of a bug.

The game didn't show that one of his agents was working a secret in a province causing him to move the agent out - I assume because it's not classed as a "mission/job" (
#source)

He triggered a weird GUI bug through the use of the "Send Agent" screen - where the game allowed him to send agents for a scouting mission on the Aleppo story objective which required 4 agents (#source)


I hope the global map segment doesn't become too tedious - it requires quite a bit of active management.
There doesn't appear to be any reason to leave agents in idle sectors when they can do something important elsewhere.
I suppose it depends on the enemy mission spawning frequency and which missions need to be stopped.
Anything that raises DANGER is obviously important - like the scouting missions.
It's quite similar to the global map in EVIL GENIUS.
 
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Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
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Messages
22,504
Looked at start of random stream I found on twitch. That guard near car would be avoided by all cost, because it's easiest way to get into trouble. Normally you don't carry riffles in back of your car, and if you do it's not 6 rifles, and they are protected against dirt and dust. Leaving them like that is the best way to make them whack against each other on ANY irregularities on road.
No silencer on pistols.

Weird dioramas instead of intro.
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
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Messages
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Location
SERPGIA
Streamers are bad at vidya games.

Streamers are good only at being bad and autistic. Twitch is probably world's leading cause of autism and twitch chat is like bunch of drunkards laughing at one breaking a bottle of other's head and third one saying: kappa - funny as hell if you're one of them, fucking retarded to anyone sober watching from a side. Codex's shoutbox is cocktail party at embassy compared to it.

Game looks super promising, it's leaps above Hard West in every possible way. Cocktail made out of Cold War drama and conspiracies, inclined neo-xcom's turn based combat and strategic layer so deep, immersive and engaging that you can't help but larp head of secret organization from James Bond or Nikita combined with a fact that Firaxis won't be serving their thirsty customers for quite some time means - Incline in mainstream's taste, Incline in sales for devs and Incline of this subforum!

Phantom Doctrine, more like Doctrine of Incline!
 
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
107
Thank you for the sweet, sweet comments and insights.

Btw, just came back from Film Music Festival, and we had a suite played live :) Here's a bootleg video:

 

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
The developer's responses to questions/feedback, combined with the footage, have built up my confidence that Phantom Doctrine will be a knockout.
 
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
107
Don't get hyped for unreleased games.
Hype is related to unreleased things, so you're suggesting never getting hyped at all.
Or, in other words, never get excited for games that you don't have yet.
I feel you.
I understand where this comes from.
But it's like saying "I will never love again" and it's simply not true.
You have been damaged, and took a lot of pain, because people disappointed you, because preorders didn't match expectations.
(I should know, the last game I preordered was Kane & fucking Lynch, a solid contender for the biggest disappointment ever)
But - take my hand - there's someone out there, there's a game out there - that will love you, and you will love in return.
Don't be afraid to daydream and seek happiness just because Kane & fucking Lynch turned out to be shit. And so was Hitman Absolution.
But love will come back to you, just like Hitman 2016 and I spent 163 lovely hours, exploring each other until the very last achievement and escalation challange and opportunity kill and elusive target.
I regained my trust and preordered and Season 2 better be fucking good or else.
But I digress.
Get hyped, because what else could you possibly be excited about?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Hype is a personal thing and is related to things you personally don't know about, not for things nobody knows about. But it is usually used for masses and before release because people don't have any real info so many do get hyped because more people have a positive look on life and expect good from things.
But you can easily be hyped for things that others are playing and you have not played yet. At that time there is a lot more info about games and you can find out in more detail if the product looks and play like something you would enjoy and your hype can be based on more than marketing talk.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,023
Hm, I usually only get hyped these days if a game in the making promises or better shows game mechanics, writing and content I want to see in a game. You just get more and more cautious, especially if you were hyped before and were let down.

I think that often vague information, that can be interpreted in different ways lead to false hype, with buyers remorse / backlash for the studio.

I am interested in Phantom Doctrine, it has quit some game features I like.
I would be hyped about it if it had a real ballistics system, game mechanics like JA2 1.13 (tactical battle, inventory, agents that interact with each other) and good mature writing.
(I do not know of the writing quality).
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamer.com/hands-on-with-turn-based-cold-war-spy-thriller-phantom-doctrine/

Hands-on with turn-based Cold War spy thriller Phantom Doctrine
It's got squad-based tactics and stealth. But the best thing about it might be the corkboard.

There's a thin red line between me and danger. It marks where I can walk carefree, a disguise of a hat and some glasses keeping me safe, and where I'll be at risk of setting off alarms just by being seen. During the infiltration stage of Phantom Doctrine I walk this perimeter, testing the boundary, before finding a choice spot to break it. In this opening level all I have to do is wait for a guard to loop past on his patrol, slip through a fence, disable a security camera, and I'm in.

I'm immediately faced with another guard, but this is all according to plan—he's a sleeper agent who has been brainwashed, and can be activated with a code phrase. (Probably something innocuous like "banana bread".) My brainwashed buddy then explores the red zone freely, and the alarms stay quiet for one more turn.

Phantom Doctrine is set in 1983, during the Cold War but later than you might expect. When I first heard about it I figured it would be more of a 1970s, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy kind of deal. The advantage of a later setting is more high-tech spy gadgets, with things like GPS a reality. Also the hair is bigger, as I find out in the character creator, which you can go back to whenever an agent needs a new cover identity. There's a nice selection of hats too.

But back to the mission. The sleeper agent walks ahead, silently taking down a guard and clearing the path to the intel we're here to steal. The room it's in has a window, so I call a support agent—a team-mate deployed off the edge of the map—and she looks through a telescope from her position in an overlooking building. Now I can see the entire room, which has two guards keeping an eye on the safe full of documents. If my support was a sniper they could take a shot, but the spotter's ability to lift fog of war and give a temporary damage to bonus within that area will be good enough for us.

It's a simple matter of clicking on, say, a photo of a suspect and dragging a piece of string to a corroborating folder or piece of microfiche, but it quickly becomes a tangle of pushpins and color-coordinated string just like in the movies

I can't send the sleeper in to do another takedown because the second guard will spot him, so it's time to breach. That means getting both of my agents into position at the two entrances and then having them act simultaneously, which adds another damage bonus. It also looks cool, which is very important. They each open a door and fire a spray of machinegun bullets into a separate guard in a single, fluid motion. After taking it in turns for so long, watching co-ordinated simultaneous action like this is cool as hell.

Of course, all that shooting means the alarm finally goes off. This is fine. All we have to do is grab the documents out of the safe and hold our position until evac arrives. During the infiltration stage Phantom Doctrine reminds me of Invisible Inc. but once you go loud it starts to feel like XCOM, complete with the little shield icons telling me whether I'm in half cover or full cover.

Overwatch works slightly differently, needing to be directed toward a specific spot, and instead of a skyranger, rescue comes in the form of a regular old van, which skids into the street outside so we can leap out of the facility's windows and run for it. I pause to switch to a pistol that does bonus headshot damage and take out one more guard on the way, then we're off.

A successful tutorial mission over, it's back to headquarters to decipher the intel. The Phantom Doctrine's HQ is your classic upgradeable ant farm, with areas like an infirmary, workshop, and interrogation rooms. The whole thing can be picked up and moved to a different city if enemies find its location, which is a nice touch.

My favorite part of the base is the conspiracy corkboard where I get to analyze the documents. Each scrap of text full of blacked-out secrets has to be pored over for codenames and locations, which can then be connected to the same names when they show up in other documents. It's a simple matter of clicking on, say, a photo of a suspect and dragging a piece of string to a corroborating folder or piece of microfiche, but it quickly becomes a tangle of pushpins and color-coordinated string just like in the movies. Make enough connections and a new mission unlocks, whether to raid a location or take out a target or steal some more info.

There have been other games about spies over the years. There was Sid Meier's Covert Action, Alpha Protocol, and No One Lives Forever, as well as various James Bond and Tom Clancy games of course. More recently there's SpyParty and Invisible Inc. But it's not exactly a crowded genre, and emulating espionage cliches like the interactive analysis board has an impact simply because it's not something we see games do very often.

Faced with the prospect of engaging in a more thorough room-by-room infiltration of the office, which is full of civilians and even more cameras, I give up on the idea of kidnapping the target and opt for a blunter solution

I'm playing as the CIA but you can also choose the KGB, and there's a secret third faction who will be unlocked in New Game Plus mode. No matter who you choose the overarching story is about trying to defeat an organization working in secret to pit the east and west against each other, keeping the Cold War going for reasons of their own. Your choice of faction alters how things start but once the main plot begins the missions dovetail, which sounds kind of like how Dragon Age: Origins handled it.

A later mission goes very differently. This time I start with two agents and my target's a guy named Aguirre I need to capture or kill. In the infiltration phase I cautiously make my way around the office he's in, taking out a couple of guards and disposing of the bodies (which happens in a cutscene, there's no need to drag them to actual hiding places). Through a ground floor window I spot the target, who is distracted and staring at a conspiracy corkboard of his own. There's a camera on him at all times and both the neighbouring rooms are covered by cameras as well. Luckily I spot an empty security room nearby, so one of my agents clambers through the window and turns off a camera—but it's not the right one.

Faced with the prospect of engaging in a more thorough room-by-room infiltration of the office, which is full of civilians and even more cameras, I give up on the idea of kidnapping the target and opt for a blunter solution. I station both agents on the street outside the room the target's in, call for evac, and then open fire. It takes three rounds of full auto to drop him, and as soon as the first one goes off the alarm rings and reinforcements start coming, but it turns out I have exactly enough time to get in the van and get the hell out of Beirut before they get close. It wasn't subtle, and I missed out on some bonus intel somewhere in the level, but I did the job and nobody got hurt.

Nobody but those two guards and the target, I mean. Nobody we know, or at least care about.

One of the most promising things about Phantom Doctrine is that it seems happy to allow for both stealth and shootier strategies, as well as an adaptive blend of both (building on XCOM 2's groundwork in that respect). Being herded into one or the other for an entire campaign could get dull, but having the freedom to switch things up when necessary makes it stand out from the increasingly crowded genre of turn-based tactics games. Plus, I think I could happily connect lines of string between names on that corkboard for hours.

Phantom Doctrine is being developed by CreativeForge Games (previously responsible for Hard West) and published by Good Shepherd. It's due out in late 2018.
 

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