KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[orcinator]

So, I watched a couple of videos of this game and it looked fun. Can someone enlighten me as to why it in fact isn't fun but shit?

It's NuCom with actual line of sight but terrible implementation.
Press the "Prev" button for more info.

 

[ArchAngel]

So, I watched a couple of videos of this game and it looked fun. Can someone enlighten me as to why it in fact isn't fun but shit?

It is lots of fun. Don't let the haters tell you otherwise.

 

[Grotesque]

So, I watched a couple of videos of this game and it looked fun. Can someone enlighten me as to why it in fact isn't fun but shit?

"Hello!

I'm Julian Gollop, the designer of the original X-COM series.

Now I'm returning to the genre that I created - turn-based tactics, world based strategy and a terrifying alien menace.

In the near future, Earth is devastated by Pandora virus released from melting permafrost.
Human civilization is reduced to warring factions and isolated havens.

You play the role of a leader of a small group of soldiers, scientists and engineers brought together
by the Phoenix project, an organization prepared to protect Earth in a time of peril.
The pandora virus incorporates human and animal DNA to create horrific mutations.
You'll face a constant evolving threat that will mutate and adapt to your tactics.
The intelligence of these new hybrids will present you with new challanges in every battle.

You will also face huge and terrifying monsters that require tactical thinking and coordination to bring down.

The geoscape returns as your strategic view with even more detail and importance.
Aliens operate under cover of a dark microbial mist rolling across the surface of the globe, harboring all manner of horrors.
They control the sea, you control the skies and you fight for the land.
Interceptions take on a whole new dimension with gargantuan alien walkers that require a combination of vehicles and special squads to bring them down.

But you don't have to just contend with aliens. Different human factions control numerous havens, resources and technology.
As the leader of the Phoenix group, you'll have to negociate, barter, make alliances or war with these factions in order to further your cause.
With a large varieties of mission objectives, destructible battlefields and a dynamic world, Phoenix Point will take the genre to a whole new level.

I founded Snapshot games three years ago, a year later we released our first title, the critically acclaimed Chaos Reborn.
I have assembled a highly talented team of developers at our ??? studio and we have been working on Phoenix Point for a year.
Now we need your help to make it one of the greatest strategy games ever made.

Please support our campaign and join us for the ride.

*batteries for controllers not included "

 

[muds_animal_friend]

So, I watched a couple of videos of this game and it looked fun. Can someone enlighten me as to why it in fact isn't fun but shit?

It's both fun and shit. Like getting free candy might be fun, but then you realize you're locked inside a van with a child rapist. That's the Phoenix Point experience.

I did find the game fun at first, but by mid-game winning is just a matter of whether your squad gets to use their OP bullshit abilities first or the xeno scum get to use their OP bullshit abilities first. All the things that looked like they were important: research, faction relations, resource management ... none of it matters really. None of it. Just dump a bunch of raw recruits into a base with multiple training centers until they hit max level. High level skills are a 'I win button'. No strategy involved; no tactics required.

At least nu-xcom was consistently mediocre throughout a typically playthrough, and consistency has some merit.

 

[ArchAngel]

It feels like end game from X-com. Both you and aliens got OP tools like blaster launchers and Psi powers.
And like X-com you got the power to not (ab)use those OP skills and then have some challenge (that is how I played X-com).

 

[muds_animal_friend]

There's an ability button on my level seven solider's action bar. If I click on the button the boss monster instantly drops dead. Do I click the button the game has provided me, or do I not click the button? If I don't click on the button the boss monster might click his own button and spurt out the tactical nuclear warheads that live inside his anus. These are the exciting tactical choices and consequences that await on installing Phoenix Point. It just didn't float my boat. Nice setting, good atmosphere, terrible game design choices.

 

[ArchAngel]

There's an ability button on my level seven solider's action bar. If I click on the button the boss monster instantly drops dead. Do I click the button the game has provided me, or do I not click the button? If I don't click on the button the boss monster might click his own button and spurt out the tactical nuclear warheads that live inside his anus. These are the exciting tactical choices and consequences that await on installing Phoenix Point. It just didn't float my boat. Nice setting, good atmosphere, terrible game design choices.

While some aliens have pretty dangerous abilities (Hello Explosive Bomb Chirons) they are not nearly as OP as your own. I was able to finish it on Legendary Ironman with very little use of those OP abilities. I used Rage Burst like 2 times in whole campaign and one of those was in last mission. I only started using Shotguns+Dash+Rapid Recovery in last 10 missions because I decided I was playing this run too long and just wanted to finish missions faster so I can finally finish the game.

Old X-com was also fun getting to endgame and then destroying aliens completely with Blaster Launchers and Mind Control but it was 0 challenge, even less than in PP. But then I did Impossible/Ironman runs without using those two weapons and it was much more fun. Just like how PP is.

Is it good design in both games? No, but there is a way to make it more challenging and fun for you in both games.

But anyone bashing balance in PP either never played X-com or forgot about how its endgame looked.

 

[Visperas]

I'm just gonna wait for more patches, maybe even mods. Have they been patching the game since release?

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm just gonna wait for more patches, maybe even mods. Have they been patching the game since release?

Just 2 patches, one small one and one medium one. Then they went to their Holidays break and they should be coming back now to continue patching it.

 

[ArchAngel]

Eh my pistol only run on L/I ended up in a whole team wipe on a High difficulty Haven defense mission. Got owned by Sirens that reduced my will through walls , and too many enemies.
Got pretty far with it but I have noticed that it is not as viable like I first thought as campaign continued. I don't even have a clue how I would fight Scylla.

Too hard to fight these missions with low range weapons only, I noticed how I missed access to Grenade Launchers, Snipers ,Missiles and Turrets to tank for me.

Next L/I run will be no multiclassing rule.

 

[Alienman]

After playing some more...

While I still think the setting is pretty darn cool. It has nice atmosphere and it makes me want to learn more about the world - the gameplay though has become really tedious and a bit odd. The tactical missions is such a slog, since every mission now contains one giant crab beast that take 2 years to kill. I just want some alien blasting for god sake, slowly plinking away on some big monster is not that nor is it fun. Once or twice maybe during the campaign, but not in every single mission. It's mind-numbingly boring.

Another thing is how everything scales. If you do good the evolution of the aliens goes way too fast. You go from regular crabs to crabs with armor the normal rifles can't even touch... while you are still on the same tech level. The only weapons currently that do anything is the sniper rifles and the heavy guns. It makes the assault dude almost useless, except for the shotgun maybe.

Last thing is the war against the other factions, or the war between the factions. While I understand the aliens wanting to genocide the humans, the human faction does the same to each other. Which means you eventually won't have any bases left to buy resources and recruits from. I have no problem with it per say, but it's a constant thing! You can't go one minute without some faction come under attack and needing your help. It's highly stressful and annoying... and ironically enough it makes the geoscape gameplay even more micro-management heavy than the originals. Not in a good way at all by the way, like I said it's stressful and provides little reward. It feels more like a babysitting simulator then fighting a grand war. Then on defend mission you are all alone. I would love to see some Jericho guys helping me out, but nope. They just run off and let you defend their settlements. Highly disappointing, since you actually fight these dudes if you invade. Maybe the game don't support 3 factions on the map at the same time or something.

 

[ArchAngel]

After playing some more...

While I still think the setting is pretty darn cool. It has nice atmosphere and it makes me want to learn more about the world - the gameplay though has become really tedious and a bit odd. The tactical missions is such a slog, since every mission now contains one giant crab beast that take 2 years to kill. I just want some alien blasting for god sake, slowly plinking away on some big monster is not that nor is it fun. Once or twice maybe during the campaign, but not in every single mission. It's mind-numbingly boring.

Another thing is how everything scales. If you do good the evolution of the aliens goes way too fast. You go from regular crabs to crabs with armor the normal rifles can't even touch... while you are still on the same tech level. The only weapons currently that do anything is the sniper rifles and the heavy guns. It makes the assault dude almost useless, except for the shotgun maybe.

Last thing is the war against the other factions, or the war between the factions. While I understand the aliens wanting to genocide the humans, the human faction does the same to each other. Which means you eventually won't have any bases left to buy resources and recruits from. I have no problem with it per say, but it's a constant thing! You can't go one minute without some faction come under attack and needing your help. It's highly stressful and annoying... and ironically enough it makes the geoscape gameplay even more micro-management heavy than the originals. Not in a good way at all by the way, like I said it's stressful and provides little reward. It feels more like a babysitting simulator then fighting a grand war. Then on defend mission you are all alone. I would love to see some Jericho guys helping me out, but nope. They just run off and let you defend their settlements. Highly disappointing, since you actually fight these dudes if you invade. Maybe the game don't support 3 factions on the map at the same time or something.

Those Chirons die fast to snipers.

Yea aliens upgrade fast and make assault rifles useless fast. When that happens you need to switch to snipers, grenades or shotguns (two well thrown grenades can disable even those armored Chirons as most of their armor is on their main body and shoulders but their hands remain exposed). It is just adaptive alien stuff that devs talked about.

Factions only go to war for a while, not the whole way. And you can defend havens from attacks of other factions to up your reputation with those you want. And it certainly does not provide little reward lol, haven defense missions are best ways to get food, materials and tech while also giving you faction reputation. And nobody is forcing you to fight them all.
No defenders on Haven defense missions is disappointing but considering there is one special mission where you and NJ fight off Pandorans and it lags like hell and turns take forever, you probably don't want friendly defenders... :D :D
But Haven defenders do contribute. Difference between attacking and defending force and general strength of defending force does contribute to if missions you will do will be Low, Medium, Heavy or Extreme threat category.

 

[Alienman]

Chiron is that long range nuker right? I'm talking about the really big one. The boss type that can run through buildings like it was made of gingerbread. And by little reward I mean in entertainment value. You have to chase those incidents all around the world, and yes while you get resources and increase or decrease your rep, it sure takes its toll (at least for me) on the enjoyment. It's like world war 3 in my game. Factions and pandorans attacking and fighting constantly.

Real shame that it lags, but performance problems like that should be fixed so it allows for something cool like having factions actually showing up to their battles. It's highly immersion breaking for me that they do not. If it was regular small settlements maybe, but all these locations is supposed to have faction soldiers represented.

Okay, didn't know about the numbers thing. To me it has only been this abstract thing that tells me who will win a battle.

 

[ArchAngel]

Chiron is that long range nuker right? I'm talking about the really big one. The boss type that can run through buildings like it was made of gingerbread. And by little reward I mean in entertainment value. You have to chase those incidents all around the world, and yes while you get resources and increase or decrease your rep, it sure takes its toll (at least for me) on the enjoyment. It's like world war 3 in my game. Factions and pandorans attacking and fighting constantly.

Real shame that it lags, but performance problems like that should be fixed so it allows for something cool like having factions actually showing up to their battles. It's highly immersion breaking for me that they do not. If it was regular small settlements maybe, but all these locations is supposed to have faction soldiers represented.

Okay, didn't know about the numbers thing. To me it has only been this abstract thing that tells me who will win a battle.

Ah you are talking about Scyllas. They do have crazy armor and can only be killed with snipers, heavy weapons or if you soften then up with explosives or berserker's armor break ability. They are the kind of enemy you use Rage Burst + Hell cannon or Minigun on.
Think of them like Pandoran's Tank unit. You don't use anti infantry weapons (pistols, assault rifles or shotguns) to fight tanks, do you?
No team needs more than two assault guys, they are mostly there to dash and shotgun in the face aliens that hide behind walls and your snipers cannot hit them.

As for the war, well you can mostly ignore it. You don't need to respond to every event just like you didn't in UFO 1994 (well you didn't know about all of them unless you covered the whole world in radar stations). Just do those that provide you with something you need. And it is more important to stop Pandoran attacks than when two factions are fighting (as that will reveal the location of their Nest/Lair/Citadel). And at some point it just stops and only Pandoran's keep attacking everyone.

 

[Child of Malkav]

When 2 factions are going to war with each other, I don't intervene.
If a haven is attacked by Pandorans, I always intervene.
My number 1 priority is to get to 100 with all 3. Destroy every lair and citadel as those give you +10 rep with all factions. And of course try to keep the ODI under 20% if possible, at all times, though I'm pretty sure from what I've seen, that once you get over 10% you can't drop below that again. I have 10 helios ships, 1 or 2 on each continent doing area scans and not being able to find those colonies that keep up that 10%.

 

[ArchAngel]

When 2 factions are going to war with each other, I don't intervene.
If a haven is attacked by Pandorans, I always intervene.
My number 1 priority is to get to 100 with all 3. Destroy every lair and citadel as those give you +10 rep with all factions. And of course try to keep the ODI under 20% if possible, at all times, though I'm pretty sure from what I've seen, that once you get over 10% you can't drop below that again. I have 10 helios ships, 1 or 2 on each continent doing area scans and not being able to find those colonies that keep up that 10%.

There is no real reason to keep ODI low. High ODI gives no permanent penalty. At some ODI thresholds all squads get stamina reduction like they have been on a mission but that is healed back up fast.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

 

[True Ukrainian]

I had a haven attack at 11% ODI. Low ODI does not stop haven attacks.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Interesting. Well, that below 20% thing was what I observed in one of my campaigns but I guess it's completely random then.

 

[Thal]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

There's no need to abandon campaigns because of ODI. The worst I had it was 98%, and I still ended up winning. Very few havens left in the end, though, but enough for trading and recruits.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Game is so unoptimized, runs like shit

 

[ArchAngel]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

ODI is generated in two ways:
1. Each time Haven fall ODI goes up permanently.
2. Each time Pandoran Nest/Lair/Citadel spawns ODI goes up temporarily. By destroying that Nest/Lair/Citadel you revert ODI to what is was before the spawn.

You didn't have any attacks at ODI under 20% because you killed all the Pandoran bases. But new ones spawn periodically.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

ODI is generated in two ways:
1. Each time Haven fall ODI goes up permanently.
2. Each time Pandoran Nest/Lair/Citadel spawns ODI goes up temporarily. By destroying that Nest/Lair/Citadel you revert ODI to what is was before the spawn.

You didn't have any attacks at ODI under 20% because you killed all the Pandoran bases. But new ones spawn periodically.

I didn't know about the number 1. So losing havens increases it permanently? Should keep that in mind. And yeah, after destroying a lair/citadel, a few minutes after that it goes up by 3%, up to 21 or so, then a haven is attacked. Again this is specific to one of my campaigns.
I remember in one the campaigns that I also ended up abandoning, because it was super tough from the start, basically, 3 weeks in-game time, ODI at 6%, a haven defense with extreme difficulty popped up. Of course, with a Scylla in it, that early in the game. After that the whole area was lost, no time to get rep or resources, level up etc. So I guess it's just completely random.

 

[Alienman]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

There's no need to abandon campaigns because of ODI. The worst I had it was 98%, and I still ended up winning. Very few havens left in the end, though, but enough for trading and recruits.

98% of the population dead or mutated. Only a handful Phoenix Point mercenaries remains... what will the fate of humanity be?

 

[ArchAngel]

I noticed that that if I keep the ODI under 20% there are no base attacks nor haven attacks. If it's above 20% and going up (I abandoned my 1st campaign when ODI was at 46%) there are haven attacks everywhere, it was at least, for me.

ODI is generated in two ways:
1. Each time Haven fall ODI goes up permanently.
2. Each time Pandoran Nest/Lair/Citadel spawns ODI goes up temporarily. By destroying that Nest/Lair/Citadel you revert ODI to what is was before the spawn.

You didn't have any attacks at ODI under 20% because you killed all the Pandoran bases. But new ones spawn periodically.

I didn't know about the number 1. So losing havens increases it permanently? Should keep that in mind. And yeah, after destroying a lair/citadel, a few minutes after that it goes up by 3%, up to 21 or so, then a haven is attacked. Again this is specific to one of my campaigns.
I remember in one the campaigns that I also ended up abandoning, because it was super tough from the start, basically, 3 weeks in-game time, ODI at 6%, a haven defense with extreme difficulty popped up. Of course, with a Scylla in it, that early in the game. After that the whole area was lost, no time to get rep or resources, level up etc. So I guess it's just completely random.

What appears in missions depends on Threat rating of that mission. Also if area you are doing is inside the mist it is one rating tougher. If you want easier Haven defense missions you need to arrive there early. Longer you wait, mission becomes tougher. Unless humans in the Haven are winning, I think waiting longer makes it easier. But resource reward follows the toughness of the mission.