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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

    Grotesque
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    But that is not true.

    I recently installed open X-COM: Terror from the Deep and played some combat turns (high difficulty) just for the kicks to adjust the graphics settings and kicked some alien butt easily. My aquanauts made some amazing long range shot that killed the aliens on the spot, alien missed quite a lot.
    And that playing superficially, not using grenades or making blind spots via grenade explosions.

    The fact that you can see on battle the move path of the soldier along with remaining time units on each square makes a whole lot of difference.

    A good UI that conveys information in a nice visual, intuitive way makes all the difference.

    That is what sequels did wrong.
    They think that TUs is a convoluted system where the problem lies in the UI.
    UnderRail is a clear example of a success story in that department


    On the other hand if you design xcom to be a game to be played also by the soccer mom in her spare time after dropping the kids to practice and she is not familiarized with the fundamental knowledge of a turn based genre because she only played Candy Crush Saga Online until then, you must streamline™ the game.

    It's not lucrative to design a deep game nowadays, where the market is saturated and the consumer will hop in no time to the next best thing if you take him out just a little bit from his comfort zone.
    Just look at the completion rates of games on Steam.

    Not being lucrative, that's where the designer vision comes into play for his game and what takes priority - an ankle deep game but with nice graphics or a deep one for a niche market.

    But fret not! Gollop will be the first to achieve mastery with his "master on none" game :P
     
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  2. SymbolicFrank Magister

    SymbolicFrank
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    Then it's not like X-COM, either. In X-COM, soldiers certainly are expendable cannon fodder. That's what makes it X-COM.
     
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  3. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Either that or don't have a steep progression curve in the first place. It's OK not to have giant rats and dragons in the same game.
     
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  4. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Have to tap into that 50% of gamers are female Candy Crush market :)
     
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  5. SymbolicFrank Magister

    SymbolicFrank
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    Ok, I just checked it out.

    I use a somewhat modded OpenXCOM, so it's not precisely the same. (I do have the originals on floppy and steam, but they're a pain to handle and quite buggy.) And I'm far too good at this game to give meaningful kill statistics.

    But when I use the medium difficulty (out of 5), the aliens hit more than 3/4th of the time, and my soldiers less than 1/4th. And the aliens use the Big Guns. Although 2 of my recruits survived a hit in the first three missions.

    So, yes, sometimes your soldiers make amazing shots, and sometimes the aliens miss, but by and far you are totally outgunned.

    If you want to play it safe, simply destroy anything that might make a hiding place.
     
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  6. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    make them level up, make several levels, not just 6 or 7 like xcom. attachment grows fast when you keep tuning your guys, having skills and perks makes them useful for specific situations. when one of those men dies something unique dies, but the constant leveling up of other soldiers keeps players busy. with enough skills and perks, i'd be fine with them being randomly assigned too if you want to keep things a bit simpler.
    and screw balance, the games are fun when they're not balanced. "woohoo! this soldier got this killer skill! i'm going to protect it with the lives of even more rookies!", and here you have a game in a game.
     
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  7. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Character development in an X-Com game should be a passive process, not an active one. Those are not supposed to be RPGs. The moment you start picking up perks and shit you've made a horrible design decision.

    Your focus should be in killing the aliens and getting their equipment and corpses for research. The soldiers should be means to that end. If some of them manage to survive, great job, have a promotion.

    If they die, no big loss, plenty of volunteers lined up outside the recruitment booth...

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Jimmious Arcane Patron

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    Cannon Fodder :love:
     
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  9. CryptRat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Developer

    CryptRat
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  10. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
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    Actually, I remember wishing these promotions did something in Cannon Fodder. They didn't make the soldiers any better, did they?
    Edit: actually, it appears I was wrong all these years, and promotions did make them better :roll:
     
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  11. CryptRat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Developer

    CryptRat
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    Nope, they did nothing. Or rather they made losing a high ranked guy more painful because they existed, but that's all.
     
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  12. CryptRat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Developer

    CryptRat
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    Wait they did make them better?
     
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  13. Jimmious Arcane Patron

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    CryptRat is ready to set up his old Amiga :P
     
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  14. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

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  15. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
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    From Wikipedia:
    That said, being written on wikipedia does not make it true.
     
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  16. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

    Grotesque
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    X-COM on console. Cringy as fuck watching that poor soul navigate the game's menus.

    I am beginning to really believe developers simplify their games especially to be easier to navigate the UI with a console controller.
     
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  17. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

    Grotesque
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    [​IMG]

    In the end, this vehicle will be or not in the game?
     
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  18. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    If I remember correctly higher ranking soldiers were better when left into AI supervision when you split the squad.
     
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  19. PanteraNera Cipher

    PanteraNera
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    Very likely not, JohnAtanasov (Snapshot Dev) does not know about the vehicle at all when he was asked in 2018.

    Also this was not made for PP as it seems:
    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/9NDXN

    Maybe UnstableVoltage can say something about this?
     
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  20. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Soldiers got better over time, yeh. But it was random or it appeared to be so IIRC.
     
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  21. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

    Grotesque
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    Ok.

    Now seriously, how many things have to be quietly changed for the Fig campaign to be considered a "bait and switch" ?
     
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  22. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    127 things. Just my personal number.
     
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  23. Grotesque ±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Patron

    Grotesque
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    now please proceed in describing each and every one of them.


    Also,
    [​IMG]

    Taskforce Xeno is a mod adding a new civic and flavor for species that fought off an alien invasion in their pre-ftl era, reverse-engineered their tech and reached for the stars in a bid for revenge!
     
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  24. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    That is a lot of things.
     
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  25. PanteraNera Cipher

    PanteraNera
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    Get a lawyer ;)

    Seriously, it's my main gripe with PP.

    - talking about "from the maker of the original X-COM" and "spiritual successor of X-Com" without saying in detail what that means (it's like Black Isle Studios would form again to do a "true spiritual successor to Fallout 1". What you didn't expected it to be Fallout 4+, silly you ;) ).
    - changing the tone of one of the three main factions, New Jerchio, in the Fig they were looking post apocalyptic, scavenger-style. Now they are Ultramarines ;)
    - while not confirmed as they have not released new images of Synderion and Discipline's of Anu I think it is a safe bet that they change the tone for them as well (just think about the Anu rider I posted on page 79)
    - also "you rule the sky" and in 2018 it is still NOT decided if there will be aerial interception.
    - tech-monsters I posted earlier on page 79, got cut (personally a big lose to me, I was hoping for something like this: Virus)
    - the concept of the Armadillo (New Jerchio APC) looked completely different from what we got now
    - also what I think is/was another big bait for some was the introduction cut-scenes for the boss-monsters in the Fig Video, as they stated later that they do not have the funds for extensive cut-scenes, a lot of people actually took cut-scenes for granted because of the Fig Video
    - I would say they mostly changed the visual tone of the game, I thought that the prototype looked grim/going more for a "realistic" look, the last footage we seen is XCOM 2 style
    - I think they should have stated that they intend to make a commercial successful game and not a niche game but that is my personal opinion, probably they try to do something inbetween, but I have the feeling that they lean more and more towards XCOM 2
    - also they should have stated that they intend to do a "AAA-game" at least visually, as most people would have understood beforehand that they will waste a lot of money into graphics (doing all the reworks they are doing)
    - also on Fig the game starts in 2057 and now it starts in 2047
    - most if not all aliens that were shown on Fig have changed, crabman, crabqueen, drone

    there is probably more ;)

    Like I said earlier, I think it is very disrespectful to change so much, without communicating it with the people that gave there money in the first place. I like indie's/developers that threat their Baker's as they would threat their publisher. That they fail to do at least an interesting monthly dev-blog is beyond me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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