KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Kutulu]

You assume alot of shit, not wanting epic has very little to do with steam....

 

[ricolikesrice]

I backed phoenix point for the slim chance we get an amazing x-com like game by its original developer. I wanted this game to be made and “bet” my 50 bucks on the hope of it being good. I was fully aware I might get scammed or the game might end up shit ( I also backed Pillars 1, D:OS1, Wasteland and Shadowrun … and I regret backing all 4) – it was a risk I m willing to take, especially as $50 isnt that big of a deal.

now I no longer need to take even that small risk: the fine gentleman at epic are paying for phoenix point and apparently they are paying so much, that gollup can say fuck you to his fans so directly

...if the game ends up shit I didn’t waste 50 bucks when I get my refund - if the game ends up good I can still buy it for 50 bucks. granted, unfortunately I ll have to buy it on epic store if I want to play it upon release but depending on your (lack of)”moral code” you can just as well pirate the game/ wait a year/whatever you think is worth it for you to play phoenix point. and if you are patient you can find out what gollup means with 1 year of free DLCs: i.e. if he s actually doing proper content or (more likely) releasing cosmetic shit.

considering how development went so far (slow as fuck and changing a good artstyle to a meh one ) imho all the signs don’t look promising. I dunno about you guys but I didn’t enjoy the backer builds much either: it doesn’t feel like “HEY THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN NUXCOM” at all in those builds. I installed them, played em 2 hours each and thought “surely in the next backer build the mechanics will click better !”. at this point in time nuXCOM2 gameplay is more fun than Phoenix Point backer builds.

….which wouldn’t be a problem if the game still had a year or more in the oven but its supposed to come out in half a year(and was already delayed). When announced I would have said Phoenix Point had a 10% chance to become a turn-based masterpiece, a 30% to become a fun turn-based game with some flaws and a 60% chance to suck. Nowdays I d say the chance are more like 3% masterpiece, 17% fun, 80% chance to suck…. glad to get my money back under these new odds and let others pay for the experiment

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Alienman]

Can't argue with someone who doesn't understand monopoly.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Can't argue with someone who doesn't understand monopoly.

Bah.
Hotels into adjacent properties = win.

 

[mastroego]

When people care more about the launcher than the game. And shitheads are so triggered that they're okay with pirating the game. Get over yourself. Don't want, don't buy, but pirating because you cannot play it on Uncle Gaben's launcher is dumb.

I'd like to see you in Epic's shoes. What'd you do? You'd end up just like GOG with only 1% of gamers buying there, cuz no steam, no buy.

You don't get it, do you?
Just read their fuckin' statement for fuck's sake.

"We knew you guys would be outraged, how could you NOT be, come on, we were talking about screwing you royally.
Still, we did our math and it turns out it'd be convenient to us, even with you - loyal fans who backed us when we had no one else to turn to - getting royally screwed.
Yeah, yeah, we - quote/unquote - 'promised' stuff, and all.
Sucks to be you, really.
Cheers!"

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Is it really monopoly when there's comparable products available or coming into markets?


Xenonauts 2 is coming and there's lots of other tactical games that are sold on other stores.

 

[geno]

From the AMA:

Question: Backers who backed the game from China can't even install the Epic Launcher, since Epic Games actively blocks the Launcher there. Why do they have to wait 1 year now because you decided that?
How could I, as a backer, even play the game in China? I could easily do it via GOG or Steam.
Answer:We're looking into our options for China right now, and hope to have something to share on that topic soon.

Kinda funny except if you are from China

 

[Alienman]

They claim that only 3% have requested refunds, and at the same time I see people mentioning some kind of form they have to fill out after requesting refunds... I haven't gotten anything?

So I don't really believe that claim, something is fudged up.

 

[GrainWetski]

They claim that only 3% have requested refunds, and at the same time I see people mentioning some kind of form they have to fill out after requesting refunds... I haven't gotten anything?

So I don't really believe that claim, something is fudged up.

That'd still be 300 people in one day. Quite a few for a fairly small shitstarter.

No doubt they're lowballing it, though. Liars tend to lie. No reason for them to start telling the truth now.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i was waiting for this game to mature, i come a year later (or so, i didn't keep count) to check on its status and OH MY FUCKING SHIT ON A POGO STICK the absolute cataslysmic disaster of biblical proportions. well worse than cats and dogs sleeping together and mass hysteria.
what a shame.

 

[thesheeep]

Is it really monopoly when there's comparable products available or coming into markets?


Xenonauts 2 is coming and there's lots of other tactical games that are sold on other stores.

That depends on what exactly you look at.
When you look at overall coverage and what people actually use to play, Steam has a quasi monopoly. According to the interwebs, even in the best cases, the biggest "competitor", GOG, only sells about 15% as much as Steam does. And don't forget that while you can buy games on many places, most them you end up playing on Steam anyway, so while they don't get cash for that game, they do get the users (which then become potential future customers, etc. economy stuff).
Depending on your definition of monopoly, owning about 80% of the market might qualify as monopoly or at least an almost/quasi one.
A natural one at that, too, since it doesn't result from their actions trying to force it (as many pointed out, they are not the ones paying for exclusives), but simply from the lack of serious competition. This lack also caused Valve to grow lazy and complacent (just look at Artifact or the lack of Steam client improvements over the last years if you need any proof of that attitude).
A natural monopoly usually results when penetrating the market requires an enormous effort that almost nobody can pull off.

When I say that Steam has a monopoly (or a quasi-monopoly), I'm not trying to hate. I like Steam, it's the only store that properly supports my OS of choice. I'm merely stating facts here.

People who claim that Epic will have a monopoly are either referring to single titles (which makes little sense, why would you look at the market of only very few titles, Steam has a monopoly for HL2, duh!) or have no clue whatsoever what a monopoly is.

 

[karoliner]

Unfortunately Xenonauts 2 looks like it's going to suck.

 

[JBro]

Epic Store gets some crowdfunded scam of an irrelevant old man coasting on a success from decades ago

Steam gets HALO and DWARF FORTRESS

That sure is some competition.

 

[PanteraNera]

Okay tried to extract most interesting answers from the Reddit AMA.

Phoenix Point will be DRM free, and will run without the Epic Launcher. You can uninstall it after downloading or updating, and the game will run fine. You can even add it to your Steam library manually.
All backers will get at least 3 major DLC packs throughout the year. If you only want to play on Steam/gog.com, you will get a Steam/gog key after the exclusive year has ended which will include all the DLC up to that point.
Yes, we did expect some people to be upset by the Epic deal, and we did not make this decision lightly. We have enough resources to release the game, but the Epic deal will help the game enormously in terms of quality and post-release content. It helps give our employees security and gives them the confidence they can get the job done, despite the stress and high expectations.

Good question. There were certainly big problems with the original X-COM - lack of tutorials, poor interface, lack fo feedback, fiddly inventory management. We are taking a few lessons from modern XCOMs, while keeping and improving on some stuff in the old ones. Phoenix Point also takes some ideas from X-COM Apocalypse, with multiple human factions and agendas. I want it to have more of a simulation / sandbox feel, but with some strong story lines from each faction.

We will be supporting some limited modding post-release, but it will not come before the first major DLC. We don't know yet what modding support Epic will be providing in the future, but we will provide a custom solution if necessary.

Yes - all the proposed DLC from the Fig campaign will be implemented, plus more. We plan at least 3 major DLC packs which include new missions, storylines, aliens, equipment etc. Backers who ordered the living weapons/armour sets will get those as an exclusive DLC pack in addition. We will be supporting the game with extra content as soon as possible after release and throughout the following year. We are definitely in it for the long haul.

1. If we redeem our backer keys on Epic, can we redeem it again on Steam/GoG when the game becomes available on those platforms.? Sorry you may already have answered this put it’s lost in all the other posts.
   
   
2. What sort of DLC can we expect in the first year? Will this be content that didn’t make the stretch goals? Will it be mostly cosmetic or substantial gameplay/content additions?
   
   
3. Did you have the funds & resources necessary to complete the game, with the promised content for release in September prior to making the deal with Epic?
   
   
4. Did you evaluate the impact of switching to Epic and the exclusivity deal on fig investor returns (not backers) during the negotiating period?
   
   
5. Did you approach Epic, or did Epic approach you?
   
   
6. Have you had any indication from Valve or CD Projekt red that they will not host your game on their platforms, because of your deal with Epic?

1. Yes, you will get a Steam or gog key after the first year in addition to your Epic key. It will include all DLC released up to that date.
   
   
2. There will be at least 3 major DLC packs. The first will be the sea-base/missions pack. Other content will include new storylines, factions, alien threats and game mechanics.
   
   
3. Yes we did, but the Epic deal will help the game in several ways. It allows to commit more to the launch withouth risk, and more to supporting the game immediately post launch.
   
   
4. Our fig investors will definitely get the best return possible. If you are a fig investor, please contact fig directly because we can't share confidential information here.
   
   
5. We approached Epic.
   
   
6. No.

Epic games hate blah blah all that, but besides the hate, I still have genuine questions.

1. Will there be an action cam similar to Xcom2s? I loved seeing a close of up of my soldier or an alien getting blown away, I would at least like the option.
   
   
2. How many voice lines will you be adding, mostly for aliens, because if I hear that alien say that damn line one more time while he shoots me i'm gonna flip.
   
   
3. Would it be possible to add some old time war weaponry and such? I know its all futuristic and stuff but if there are rag tag teams in cities I would imagine they don't get the top of the line gear.
   
   
4. Ragdoll physics, this is small thing to me but I think they go a long way in making the game just have that feel, will you be improving them? For example reactions to multiple shots, even after death etc. This is also another reason why I loved the action cam in Xcom2, even though it didn't have the best physics.

1. Yes absolutely - there will be plenty (you will also be able to turn them off if you wish).
   
   
2. The aliens will have quite a few more barks in BR4, with more yet to come. Soldiers will also get them.
   
   
3. The independent havens have soldiers that look like bandits with rough looking weapons. Still from the future though.
   
   
4. Yes, we will be improving them, during our polish phase. The environment destruction will also be getting a major overhaul.

I'm not sure if this is the answer you're looking for, but in doing this deal we felt that we were putting the interests of our backers first. We think that most of the people that backed the game want us to deliver the best game possible, and support it for a long time. This deal helps us do that.

 

[GrainWetski]

This will be a glorious shitshow of a FiraXCOM clone.

 

[Black]

HALO

Out.

 

[Alienman]

Shitting on the original X-com, always good. And then it comes to light that they approached Epic. Good stuff!

 

[J_C]

Shitting on the original X-com, always good.

Yep, because obviously X-com was such a perfect game, you cannot criticise it. It has no fault, it is the pinnacle of human technology. And if you dare to respectfully point out some weaker points, it is considered shitting on the game. Jesus this place.

 

[Alienman]

But saying it is bad, when your own game has controller inventory, with big fucking icons over the screen... it's just a mess. Gollop can shit on the old style of UI how much he wants, but he should at least make the UI better before he talks.

 

[JBro]

HALO

Out.

People still act contrarian about Halo? What decade is this?

And like I said, Dwarf Fortress.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Okay here's my last word on this till the next idiot's word diarea.

Why is no one talking about this "Sales guarantee"? Specifically why are no Devs questioning where the free money is coming from or if it'll stop? "Fortnite" is not a valid answer because eventually that game will run out of steam. (haha, dad joke from old man Trans-Financial Man) Okay for now, the Epic store is acting like an honest to god Indie Welfare. But what happens if Epic don't like you anymore? Or the money dries up? What happens to the Sale Guarantee then? What's stopping Epic from scuppering it if they realise they aren't making as much money as they want? These are all questions a rational buisnessman would ask before any deals take place. If they have been answered to the satisfaction of the devs but those devs are still fine telling the backers to all fuck off and take their money with them then what the fuck was agreed to and where did that money come from?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm guessing the sales guarantee works like a publisher's advance against royalties. They probably pay developers a minimum fixed amount a month for a year and then take it out of royalties. So worst case scenario for them is that a game would take 4-5 years to repay the advance. I assume the developers won't be allowed to withdraw the game until the advance is repaid.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

So in the end, we gonna get the game a year later in Steam? Probably patched up and with less bugs? With the current trend of releasing games filled with bugs this might actually be good
OPTIMISM

I thought about that too. Its often I don't even touch games for almost a year after release now, especially complicated ones like this...is there going to be dedicated modding like in NU-XCOM? If so, another reason to wait. I did not touch XCOM 2 Until Long War had been out and patched for about a year anyway..

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I certainly hope that the Epic Store is a success.
Mostly because I also hope that this will lead to Valve being broken from their lethargy and actually improving their client, and not only by improving the algorithm that determines which games you see in the store...

Fabulously optimistic, I know, but who knows, in four years, we might have a better Steam plus other client/community/launcher packages that are good as well.

Or this changes the landscape so now exclusives becomes the norm and any major title will be exclusive to something.
In that case, I can only hope software like Playnite and Lutris really take off.

Imho i hope that soon there will be so many launchers that whole point of launchers will go away and everything will be tied to frontends in similar fashion to Discord.

Already discord is killing those launchers because all social aspects are taken out of those launchers killing their idea of "ecosystem". Your gaming friends list is on discord not in steam or other launchers.

at the risk of embarrassing myself, what the fuck discord?