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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the next game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. PanteraNera Erudite

    PanteraNera
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    Well I see and absolutely respect were you are coming from.
     
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  2. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    How can one have monopoly when Steam is monopoly ? I mean even if Epic will continue this for a long time there is finite limit of money and how much they can invest into this. Assuming they have infinite money which they don't there will be a point where they will have to make profits instead of funding games left and right for exclusivity.

    Which pretty much means that even with this bullish policy at best they can carve chunk of Steam market and not kill it. And that is assuming they will be the only one and no one new shows up and further makes their pies less.

    1. Better games as devs are constantly struggling with money they can invest more money into game or provide better support after released
    2. More games from said devs as they have guaranteed success if they go for Epic store now.
    2. Free games and more sales. Do you think Epic will no run its own Steam sales ? Why do you need to exactly wait for steam sales ? How about sales all year long ?

    1. It is always fun to poke at steamfags
    2. I like to have cheap games, sales and free games which means more competition to Steam the better that stuff will get.
    3. I generally care about health of industry, so for me even i won't buy anything from Epic store means that down the road things will improve for everyone.

    1. It switched paradigm from 30% to 12% cut and other stores like GOG seems to be bullied into following that. EVEN STEAM revised their strategy where the bigger game is the less cut they will receive now. Hurray for competition !
    2. Bunch of other stuff which could be said "walfare" as you suggest it but it still does count.

    Marx would be proud of you.
     
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  3. Kutulu Magister Patron

    Kutulu
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    You assume alot of shit, not wanting epic has very little to do with steam....
     
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  4. ricolikesrice Arcane

    ricolikesrice
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    I backed phoenix point for the slim chance we get an amazing x-com like game by its original developer. I wanted this game to be made and “bet” my 50 bucks on the hope of it being good. I was fully aware I might get scammed or the game might end up shit ( I also backed Pillars 1, D:OS1, Wasteland and Shadowrun … and I regret backing all 4) – it was a risk I m willing to take, especially as $50 isnt that big of a deal.

    now I no longer need to take even that small risk: the fine gentleman at epic are paying for phoenix point and apparently they are paying so much, that gollup can say fuck you to his fans so directly :lol:

    ...if the game ends up shit I didn’t waste 50 bucks when I get my refund - if the game ends up good I can still buy it for 50 bucks. granted, unfortunately I ll have to buy it on epic store if I want to play it upon release but depending on your (lack of)”moral code” you can just as well pirate the game/ wait a year/whatever you think is worth it for you to play phoenix point. and if you are patient you can find out what gollup means with 1 year of free DLCs: i.e. if he s actually doing proper content or (more likely) releasing cosmetic shit.

    considering how development went so far (slow as fuck and changing a good artstyle to a meh one ) imho all the signs don’t look promising. I dunno about you guys but I didn’t enjoy the backer builds much either: it doesn’t feel like “HEY THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN NUXCOM” at all in those builds. I installed them, played em 2 hours each and thought “surely in the next backer build the mechanics will click better !”. at this point in time nuXCOM2 gameplay is more fun than Phoenix Point backer builds.

    ….which wouldn’t be a problem if the game still had a year or more in the oven but its supposed to come out in half a year(and was already delayed). When announced I would have said Phoenix Point had a 10% chance to become a turn-based masterpiece, a 30% to become a fun turn-based game with some flaws and a 60% chance to suck. Nowdays I d say the chance are more like 3% masterpiece, 17% fun, 80% chance to suck…. glad to get my money back under these new odds and let others pay for the experiment
     
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  5. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
  6. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Can't argue with someone who doesn't understand monopoly.
     
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  7. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Bah.
    Hotels into adjacent properties = win.
     
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  8. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    You don't get it, do you?
    Just read their fuckin' statement for fuck's sake.

    "We knew you guys would be outraged, how could you NOT be, come on, we were talking about screwing you royally.
    Still, we did our math and it turns out it'd be convenient to us, even with you - loyal fans who backed us when we had no one else to turn to - getting royally screwed.
    Yeah, yeah, we - quote/unquote - 'promised' stuff, and all.
    Sucks to be you, really.
    Cheers!"
     
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  9. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Is it really monopoly when there's comparable products available or coming into markets?


    Xenonauts 2 is coming and there's lots of other tactical games that are sold on other stores.
     
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  10. geno Educated

    geno
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    From the AMA:
    Kinda funny except if you are from China
     
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  11. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    They claim that only 3% have requested refunds, and at the same time I see people mentioning some kind of form they have to fill out after requesting refunds... I haven't gotten anything?

    So I don't really believe that claim, something is fudged up.
     
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  12. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    That'd still be 300 people in one day. Quite a few for a fairly small shitstarter.

    No doubt they're lowballing it, though. Liars tend to lie. No reason for them to start telling the truth now.
     
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  13. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    i was waiting for this game to mature, i come a year later (or so, i didn't keep count) to check on its status and OH MY FUCKING SHIT ON A POGO STICK the absolute cataslysmic disaster of biblical proportions. well worse than cats and dogs sleeping together and mass hysteria.
    what a shame.
     
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  14. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    That depends on what exactly you look at.
    When you look at overall coverage and what people actually use to play, Steam has a quasi monopoly. According to the interwebs, even in the best cases, the biggest "competitor", GOG, only sells about 15% as much as Steam does. And don't forget that while you can buy games on many places, most them you end up playing on Steam anyway, so while they don't get cash for that game, they do get the users (which then become potential future customers, etc. economy stuff).
    Depending on your definition of monopoly, owning about 80% of the market might qualify as monopoly or at least an almost/quasi one.
    A natural one at that, too, since it doesn't result from their actions trying to force it (as many pointed out, they are not the ones paying for exclusives), but simply from the lack of serious competition. This lack also caused Valve to grow lazy and complacent (just look at Artifact or the lack of Steam client improvements over the last years if you need any proof of that attitude).
    A natural monopoly usually results when penetrating the market requires an enormous effort that almost nobody can pull off.

    When I say that Steam has a monopoly (or a quasi-monopoly), I'm not trying to hate. I like Steam, it's the only store that properly supports my OS of choice. I'm merely stating facts here.

    People who claim that Epic will have a monopoly are either referring to single titles (which makes little sense, why would you look at the market of only very few titles, Steam has a monopoly for HL2, duh!) or have no clue whatsoever what a monopoly is.
     
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  15. karoliner Savant

    karoliner
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    Unfortunately Xenonauts 2 looks like it's going to suck.
     
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  16. JBro Learned

    JBro
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    Epic Store gets some crowdfunded scam of an irrelevant old man coasting on a success from decades ago

    Steam gets HALO and DWARF FORTRESS

    That sure is some competition.
     
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  17. PanteraNera Erudite

    PanteraNera
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    Okay tried to extract most interesting answers from the Reddit AMA.

     
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  18. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    This will be a glorious shitshow of a FiraXCOM clone.
     
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  19. Black Arcane

    Black
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    Out.
     
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  20. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Shitting on the original X-com, always good. And then it comes to light that they approached Epic. Good stuff! :cool:
     
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  21. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Yep, because obviously X-com was such a perfect game, you cannot criticise it. It has no fault, it is the pinnacle of human technology. And if you dare to respectfully point out some weaker points, it is considered shitting on the game. Jesus this place.
     
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  22. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    But saying it is bad, when your own game has controller inventory, with big fucking icons over the screen... it's just a mess. Gollop can shit on the old style of UI how much he wants, but he should at least make the UI better before he talks.
     
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  23. JBro Learned

    JBro
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    People still act contrarian about Halo? What decade is this?

    And like I said, Dwarf Fortress.
     
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  24. Trans-Financial-Man Learned

    Trans-Financial-Man
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    Okay here's my last word on this till the next idiot's word diarea.

    Why is no one talking about this "Sales guarantee"? Specifically why are no Devs questioning where the free money is coming from or if it'll stop? "Fortnite" is not a valid answer because eventually that game will run out of steam. (haha, dad joke from old man Trans-Financial Man) Okay for now, the Epic store is acting like an honest to god Indie Welfare. But what happens if Epic don't like you anymore? Or the money dries up? What happens to the Sale Guarantee then? What's stopping Epic from scuppering it if they realise they aren't making as much money as they want? These are all questions a rational buisnessman would ask before any deals take place. If they have been answered to the satisfaction of the devs but those devs are still fine telling the backers to all fuck off and take their money with them then what the fuck was agreed to and where did that money come from?
     
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  25. Who Cares Educated

    Who Cares
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    The way they say it, for most payment services and most backers, too much time has passed since the payment so they can't just issue backers a refund through normal means. What they do instead is have backers give their banking info to a third party, a company named Transferwise, and let them handle the refund. I use Transferwise myself and that shit is legit both security- and usability-wise, but most people never heard of it and understandably they don't trust them on the spot. So people now just request chargebacks through their credit card providers. The point of all that is, the 3% number might be real, but only if that is a number of official refunds. Even if they count chargebacks, those are not instant and require some period of time to go through(typically 28 days), so the aforementioned 3% feels more like "real, but not representative" rather than "outright bullshit". Besides, the issue is only a couple days old, it's the middle of the week, many people are too busy with IRL shit. I imagine the percentage will go way up over the weekend.

    "Sales guarantee" is probably "You make X sales or we pay you Y money as compensation". Don't quote me on that, though, it's just an educated guess. Also if devs were rational businessmen, they would do business not make games. I mean, "fuck over your backers just this once and we'll pay you enough to retire at 30 and never work again" sounds pretty attractive no matter how you look at it or even how passionate you are about vidya.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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