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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the next game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. Trans-Financial-Man Learned

    Trans-Financial-Man
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    Just had a thought. I know I'm dealing with a bunch of youngsters on this forum but are you all so young you don't actually remember a time before Steam?

    Going off of what others have said to catch people out. Yes, Half Life 2 was "exclusive" to Steam. In the same way a big mac is exclusive to McDonald's. Because those heart attack merchants made it themselves. They never promised the game would be anywhere else. Here's the thing though, the real kicker. Steam despite several issues at launch was way more convenient than the place PC gaming was at before. Automatic downloading of patches instead of going to dodgy sites like Fileplanet, Gamershell and others, User Reviews, An account with all your games in one place so you could install from multiple systems without the hassle of lugging loads of discs around and dealing with fucking secureRom and all those shitty DRM things. People were won over to Steam not through exclusives but through quality of life improvements and convenience. The only "Steam exclusive" games were Half Life 2 and it's spin offs. Valve owned games. Devs decided themselves to then put games on Steam above all else because that was where the Market was. No deals, no backroom talks, just market relevance. We could argue all day about Steam's dominance of the PC platform and we should talk about it. But this false narrative of competition when Epic is actively trying to inconvenience people on purpose to get them to use Epic's launcher is not only unethical but retarded.
     
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  2. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    There is no reason it needs to scan those files before you use the friendlist sharing. Steam API also exists and is used by GOG etc. precisely so they don't need to do this shit..
     
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  3. luinthoron Learned

    luinthoron
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    Wait, are you saying it sold in the negative numbers and all of us who own it were paid by Firaxis to get it?
     
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  4. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Percentages and how do they work, this is today's homework for the codex.
     
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  5. PanteraNera Erudite

    PanteraNera
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    XCOM is to blame.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    That's exactly what I'm saying;[

    I fucked up, but you know what I mean.
     
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  7. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    So what if Valve decides to not allow Epic to use their API?
    Not the most likely scenario, but still. Better to use a method that does not even require their permission, if anyhow possible.

    From the devs themselves:
    If you use APIs like the Steam API, Steam will also know a lot about you (API calls are never one-sided, Valve is certain to collect data from who makes the calls, what is being requested, etc.). Something that Epic certainly has an interest to prevent, as data = money and why give Valve some free data?

    To be fair, Valve might fix this possible "data leak" somehow, and then Epic wouldn't have a choice but to either find another workaround or use the API (or remove Steam connection).
     
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  8. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    Oh, they're worried about companies collecting data from them because of security and privacy concerns, are they? Is this real life?

    Epic bragged a while back about how only 50% of Fortnite players/Epic Launcher users used Steam and how only 20% used it regularly. Pretty obvious how they got their numbers now.
     
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  9. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
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    I don't believe for a second Epic cares about their user's privacy and security (more than they have to for obvious reasons, anyway). No big company does, including Valve btw.
    However, they do have an interest in not giving Valve more data than necessary. That's what this is about, if you ask me. And that's also how you can spin it to make it look you care about your users' privacy.
    After all, it is factually correct that Valve WILL know less about you if Epic does not use their API but finds other methods ;)
     
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  10. Thal Learned

    Thal
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    No, I'm not a PP dev, I'm someone who played UFO: Enemy Unknown to the death in mid-90s. Seriously, did I say something controversial? If the game is good, it will sell well. If it's bad, it won't sell shit. I never said that it will sell millions. I said that there is a large market for the game of this type. Also, the latest number I read for cancelled pledges was 1600 out of +10000. That's out of the core audience, and that's after several betrayals. You're overestimating how enraged their backers are.

    I don't like those shoulder pads, or the sleek tacticool look. In fact, I'm looking forward to that one game that will abandon the cartoony WoW art style and will instead draw inspiration from the relatively restrained and realistic style of Baldur's Gate 1, Fallout or Diablo 1. What I'm saying is simply this, the quality of the game will depend on other factors. Namely, the tactical combat system, the quality of the geoscape layer and how they come together. Gameplay is what matters, not the art style. UFO had borderline anime hair for fucks sake. When it comes to presentation, the real game changer about UFO was the line of sight, fog of war and night missions. All things with direct gameplay effects. Also, sound design, if you count it as presentation.

    Nobody would buy UFO: Enemy Unknown quality game if it was released now but only on Epic?

    I recall vividly how hated Steam was even years after release. Primarily because they didn't like the idea that if Steam would go poof so would their games. Also because they were attached to physical goodies like manuals, boxes and artwork. Besides the "convenience" factor, I suspect that quite a big reason why Steam was accepted was that the new generation started playing games and didn't know any different. Older generation otoh got used to it, and started having more disposable income so the financial risk of losing their games wasn't as big.
     
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  11. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
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  12. Shog-goth Learned Patron

    Shog-goth
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  13. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
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  14. pm_675 Educated

    pm_675
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  15. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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  16. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    :roll:
    You said that nuXCOM gained popularity with XCOM2, which is blatantly false.

    Since the first nuXCOM turned out to be a hit, there were smaller and bigger copycats that tried to cash in on its success. And none of them really made it, even according to scaled down expectations. Check out the Phantom Doctrine thread, where one of the devs reported that much of the team was laid off because the game did not perform. And that's a recent release, made by a professional studio, with some fresh ideas and very decent production values.
    I will repeat myself for the n-th time, but all I'm saying is that currently PP seems to be sitting in the exact spot many similar "genre revival" projects were sitting before: the people for which it was supposedly made largely alienated in order to appease the gaming everyman who, in the end, inevitably does not care nearly enough about these efforts. Of course this strategy can be viable, there are some painful examples of classic PC series bastardized to become super hits, but it needs to be done with way more money and, uh, dedication.

    I'm not saying it's impossible for PP to sell good, I just think it is very unlikely. Its creators seem to share this opinion at least partially and when they saw the occasion to get the cash upfront, they jumped right at it. Make of that what you will.
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying.

    Spoiler: What I'm actually saying is that any games being released only on one store and not the most popular one by far will of course have impact on its sales. I don't even know how it is possible to claim otherwise.
     
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  17. Thal Learned

    Thal
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    Ok, as far I could tell, it had good sales, despite being a pc-only release.

    I somewhat agree with that assessment. I don't think it's highly probable that PP will become a smash hit. There's a reason why UFO is still better than all the other spiritual successors. It's very hard to get that kind of game right.

    I don't think PP devs took the money because they have no faith in their game. It's probably because they calculated risks. The potential costs of failing to sell, even if the chance is deemed low, are so great that it might be better to choose the more likely risk of some lost sales due to enraged hardcore fans. Gollop pretty much confirmed that they knew about the latter. Hell, by the time of release the grognards might have even changed their mind and buy it anyway (provided its good), or so the owners might have though. Cynical strategy maybe, but that's not the point.

    Okay, I'm not claiming otherwise. I'm simply saying that the gameplay will determine the reception.
     
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  18. GrainWetski Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    It was PC only at first because the first game sold relatively poorly on consoles so "despite being a PC only release" doesn't really mean anything.
     
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  19. PanteraNera Erudite

    PanteraNera
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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. PanteraNera Erudite

    PanteraNera
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    So Backer Build 4 seems to be not to far away:

     
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  21. LootSeeker Educated

    LootSeeker
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    I was hesitant as well when I received the e-mail from Transferwise. But then I realized they weren't asking me for any information that isn't on every check I've ever written, and I've passed more than a few checks to businesses that are likely more questionable than Transferwise. Supposedly my money will arrive in my checking account on Monday.
     
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  22. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  23. Delicieuxz Novice

    Delicieuxz
    Joined:
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    It is likely that the develop would be found liable by a court for:

    Breach of contract
    Breach of fiduciary duty
    Breach of good faith


    Two important quotes about this matter (both featured in this video):


    "As a company you shouldn't take people's money by making certain alluring promises, spend that money, and then when things are going well for you back-track on promises before giving the money back when customers' money and satisfaction is no longer as pivotal for your long-term success and survival. Customers aren't there to act as temporary interest-free loan services, they are there to back projects so they can support the fulfillment of certain promises.

    And as far as games go, ensuring they release on stipulated platforms is an important part of that. Add on as many platforms as you want, but do not take away any of them, especially if it means breaking your word after you have people's money and done what you need with it. It will only make backers feel like they have been used and exploited, rather than valued as huge contributors to getting the crowd-funded game off the ground."


    "I think what makes this particularly galling is how they basically used us backers as an interest-free loan. They took our money, developed to the point where it was mature enough to attract external investors, then totally changed the game plan and fully expect us to withdraw our cash, since they're now out of the high-risk phase of the project.

    The conned us into lending them the money, and manoeuvered it so we'd be sitting on the bill if the development project failed. For a game that sold itself based on community involvement, with backer builds and all, this is just awful."
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
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  24. sser Arcane Cuck Developer

    sser
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    I'm sure some of you know my big chode gets real hard for this genre and it definitely engorges for Sir Gollop, but I've lost total faith in this one. It is really difficult to think the game is gonna be good. If it's a good game, you put it on as many platforms as necessary. If it's average or shit, you go to Epic, take the lump sum and the loss of credibility in the eyes of many fans with it.
     
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  25. Ironmonk Learned

    Ironmonk
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    It will be fun to watch they launch the game around the end of the year, and by the end of 2020 when the 1 year exclusive deal ends and they finally decide to put it on Steam, XCOM 3 is launched and they get royally fucked because nobody will care about their game.

    IMHO this game will be garbage (or barely average at best) and we have been getting signals of that since they started to change things and go back on their words.
     
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