The discussion is irrelevant due to players growing up and becoming way more experienced by playing, in fact, games which they now concider easy.
AD&D is both cheesier but also more lethal by far, in IWD you begin with d3 hp on wizard and even classic wolf can crit you for 10+ damage. In BG1 you can get a party wipe by just meeting some bandit dudes with arrows.
This here is the perfect example of attitude of people who just "don't get it":
What do you like about Firkraag's stronghold?
From memory it goes, from main entrance into the first area:
- fodder hobgoblins
- more fodder
- Raksasha with exploding imps, fodder if you can hit him (weapon enchant check)
- "trap" room with fodder archers
- Golem pack with Adamantite/juggernaut golem, fodder or kite to door
- left and right fodder room with turncoat orc and troll cool, otygh backroom
- progress hallway with fodder
- vampire pack to the right (sunray fodder), followed by shadows in room with mind flayer room key
- meet chick with quest
- kill 7x identical djinni by stacking 100% FR, kill lone beholder
- "adventurer party backstab" , IIRC the mage isn't even high level
- progress hallway with were/wolfs (weapon +check) to room with well, air elemental with helm
- more weres, funny trio, more kitable golems with heartseeker secret room
- across bridge more golems/orogs
- Tazok party, nothing special
- lone mage
- Dragon
Just look how metaknowledge makes things "fodder" in his opinion.
This, however, doesn't go just for BG
On Insane, 2 crits in a row and Jaheira is unraisably dead. I know, because it has happened to me.
These sort of events are what hardened us and why we concider PoE "easy".
If we take some random player, even RPG player, without much knowledge and put against PoTD White March content, he'll get devastated. Although, arguably, PoE2 content is actually easier than WM content, I can really say this truly - lagufaeth & llengrath at least were encounters I had to be very careful with. PoE2 has no llengrath or that swamp-level locations.
What you must concider though, is that for Us - people who played IE games for years, regulary visited Aerie website, tried new mods, and even played some of the Enhanced Editions, we don't concider vanilla BG pinnacle of RtWP combat. We are all used to play them with spell revisions, Sword Coast Stratagems, Ascension (gay romance writer Gaider was actually good for something long time ago), and other things that increased difficulty over the years, to the point of things that simply do not exist in PoE and never will, like enemies actually kiting the shit out of you with your own tactics. That's where the pinnacle of RtWP combat lies, and it's the point at which you should pick up the torch - at the summit, not beneath it's shadow.
Dragonspear and Enhanced editions for BG2 and especially ToB had some of that, worked by modders I believe, including dragons, demons, army fights, undead hunting you, wizards replenishing their spells on your rest, turning invisible, dispelling and kiting you, dual spellcasting dragons backed by celestials, lich wizard with 9000 contingencies and so on.
I mean, fuck, just look at Icewind Dale 2. It is concidered the bastard brother of IE games, but it had a lot of clever scripted fights, ambushes, difficult to navigate locations, some use of spells, party fights, exploding enemies, "tricky" final boss.
So, naturally, we (fine, maybe it's just I) waited for new games to pick this shit up. And what happens? PoE2 comes out, and people argue if it's as difficult as vanilla BG2.
Arguably, the systems behind the game are not to blame - not completely, anyway. The blame is, once again, on whoever designed encounters in this game. You give the player a relatively big toolbox up to multi classing with kits, yet this toolbox was never used by designers to it's full potential. For me, almost no enemy in the PoE2 made me think "fuck, what class combination is even that, what abilities he uses that this guy is so strong, and how do I counter that"? And unless you go roxor on the game and repeatedly try and bash yourself against encounters twice your level, you probably never will, you'll never experience the sweet, sweet feeling of a big varied encounter, a huge party, tuned specifically just to counter your progress, with every enemy in it being special, carrying special equipment that makes your life even more miserable. The experience I am still waiting to repeat from what, 18 years ago now?
Make. Better. Encounters. ALREADY. WRITE SOME GOOD, VARIED SCRIPTS FOR SPELLCASTERS, LIKE MODDERS DID. INCREASE DIFFICULTY. MIX MONSTERS IN FUCKRIDICILOUS COMBINATIONS. MAKE ME FIGHT PARTY OF GIANT DRAGON VAMPIRE LICH SEVEN CHANTERS WITH FOURTEEN SUMMONED DRAGONS. GOD. DAMMIT !!!
