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Game News Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Infinitron, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Tags: J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity

    That's right, two big Kickstarter updates on the same day. Today's Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter update, written by Josh Sawyer himself, contains a small progress report on the state of the game, along with a screenshot seemingly aimed at annoying certain RPG Codex posters. Behold the power of adra:

    [​IMG]
    Engwithan ruins sitting atop some cliffs.

    Things are going well at Obsidian on the Pillars of Eternity team. The artists are putting the finishing touches on the second of our two big cities, Twin Elms, and the environments look fantastic. Our designers are busy implementing narrative and quest content, in some cases returning to earlier areas to fill in cracks and flesh elements out more. The character artists are almost done taking all of our highest-priority creatures to alpha level and are starting to look at the second string of creatures and variants. Animation is right behind them, creating rigs and alpha animations as new creatures come online, and we're finally returning to our main character animations for a second pass. Programming continues to chug away at user interfaces, AI, and zany spells and many other items on our long list of features. In short, we're well past "the hump" and the game is looking and feeling better every day.
    The real meat of the update, however, is Josh's introduction to two of Eternity's "heavy hitter" classes - the Rogue and the Ranger.

    In most RPG parties, there's a character type that focuses on dealing death to VIPs in the enemy roster. They are the heavy hitters, the characters who cut enemies down one-by-one with precise, overpowering attacks. We've previously talked about one of our heavy hitters, the cipher. Ciphers alternate between powerful mental attacks and the physical strikes used to power them. They are the only "caster" class that focuses heavily on individual enemies, in large part because their abilities all require an external concentration of soul energy to serve as a power source.

    In contrast to the cipher, the rogue and the ranger are more traditional, but just as deadly. Rogues rely on the vulnerability of their enemies to inflict devastating attacks in close quarters. Rangers coordinate their strikes with the help of animal companions, creatures with whom rangers form lifelong bonds. Outside of direct combat, rogues and rangers share a skill emphasis in Stealth and are commonly the sneakiest party members. But while rogues also have a specialization in Mechanics (most often to lay traps and deal with ones placed by their enemies), rangers focus on Survival, which improves the duration of many consumable items. Though the three "heavy hitter" classes have different styles of play with different strengths, they all excel at taking enemies down in the shortest amount of time possible.

    In Pillars of Eternity, the designation of a character as a "rogue" signifies their vicious, brutal style of fighting, not a propensity for theft or deception. More than any other class, rogues exemplify the adage that the best defense is a good offense. If fighters are the disciplined, reliable, well-trained units that hold the line, rogues are the shock troops that attempt to break through that line to take out vulnerable units before they can effectively retaliate. When pinned down, rogues can suffer from their weak defenses, but ideally they carry their momentum from one target to the next in short order.

    All rogues start with three abilities that allow them to immediately dive into heavy-hitting: Finishing Blow, Reckless Assault, and Dirty Fighting. As rogues advance, they gain access to abilities that allow them to maximize the damage and afflictions they can dish out to their targets. They can also learn a variety of tricks to help them get out of trouble when the going gets tough.

    [...] Rangers are expert sharpshooters with any ranged weapon. Though they traditionally rely on bows and crossbows, some use firearms or even magical implements. Regardless of their choice of armament, even novice rangers can strike swiftly and leave severe wounds that quickly wear down an enemy's stamina and movement. They are assisted in their efforts by their animal companions, incredibly tough and loyal creatures who share their lives (literally) with their masters. At higher levels, rangers gain abilities that increase the effectiveness of their attacks and the coordinated use of their companions. By tactically applying the synergistic benefits of the ranger and his or her companion, players can lock down and quickly overwhelm powerful enemies.

    [...] In addition to the abilities listed here, ciphers, rogues, and rangers can gain access to additional class-specific abilities as well as Talents. Some Talents can be taken by any character, but many are class-oriented and can be used to distinguish or emphasize one character from another. One cipher's Talents may emphasize his or her physical attacks while another's makes his or her Focus use more efficient. One rogue may maximize his or her advantage against a specific type of affliction; another may improve the frequency with which his or her offensive abilities can be used. And while rangers can always benefit from improving their marksmanship and special attacks, investing in the durability and abilities of their animal companions can safeguard the ranger against disaster.​

    Obsidian plan to continue showcasing the game's classes in pairs like this, and what pair will be shown next is to be decided by vote. So, if you have any preferences, go ahead and do that.
     
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  2. Johannes Arcane

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    I see they're really proud of having shit area design.
     
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  3. Xor Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    :nocountryforshitposters:
     
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  4. Excidium P. banal

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    Paladins and Monks confirmed for shit tier neglected classes
     
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  5. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
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  6. Excidium P. banal

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    Yeah, I remember those but they weren't nearly as detailed.
     
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  7. Kz3r0 Arcane

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  8. roshan Arcane

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    This sucks. I hate how classes are being forced into extremely specific concepts, the Rogue is just a DPS fighter while the Ranger is some sort of Animal Freak beastmaster stereotype. What's worse is that these concepts so far have all been unbelievably stupid and boring. JE Sawyer has no clue what he's doing.
     
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  9. Excidium P. banal

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    It's p. solid for the type of game they are making, what the fuck do you expect?
     
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  10. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    9 times out of 10, when somebody complains about "classes being forced into extremely specific concepts", what he really means is "classes are being forced into extremely specific concepts that I'm not nostalgic for I don't like".

    Pillars of Eternity has in fact been criticized (often by these very same people) for having class roles that aren't defined enough. Go figure.
     
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  11. throwaway Arbiter

    throwaway
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    Both updates released mention Broken Age, I doubt they are just being thankful.
     
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  12. roshan Arcane

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    No, it isn't solid, it's fucking boring, that's what it is.
     
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  13. roshan Arcane

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    Two straw men in one post, nicely done.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    In Pillars of Eternity, mages can freely wear (and can benefit from) heavy armor. What do you think of that?

    In Pillars of Eternity, no class is a "skill class" and everybody can specialize in things like stealth or lockpicking. What do you think of that?

    In Pillars of Eternity, every stat is useful to every class. What do you think of that?

    If your answer is "I hate these things and JE Sawyer is a terrible person", then that's no straw man.
     
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  15. Shadowfang Arcane

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    My thoughts exactly. Although NWN gave the ranger the two-weapon fighting and improved two-weapon fighting feats for free you could still take the archers route.
    One of the best parts of a RPG is building your own party. Being able to customize it beyond the the frontiers of the standards arch-types, and achieving victory with an unorthodox
    approach, provided me both challenge and fun while playing my old beloved rpgs.
    Blizzard did exactly the same thing with Diablo III and hardly any one applauded that here. :(

    I guess i expected a little too much from this team, that now disappoints me with each time i peek at an update.
     
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  16. cherry blossom Arcane

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    Abilities sound boring and shoehorned into being balanced. Interest dropped. Especially not happy about the seemingly arbitrary and nonsensical "cool-downs" (per encounter, per rest) for not-so-esoteric abilities.

    Then again, it's all about balance with Sawyer:

    "We are already giving you a stunning looking isometric 2D party RPG with a pretty interesting story, interesting locations and good encounters and we will retain full rights to the game and use the game's framework for future installments. That is too much goodness for one game, so we must BALANCE! it with some crap. Oh I know, we will deliver the game with a rotten core ridden with silly nonsensical rule so it will feel like a shitty JRPG"
     
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  17. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Can you suggest an equal number of alternative "unbalanced" abilities that don't sound boring?

    I'm pretty sure you're just unable to accept such a density of active abilities in this kind of game, which is why they come across as forced and "boring" to you (which you equate with "balanced"). The IE games didn't really have that kind of thing, after all.
     
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  18. Excidium P. banal

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    Meanwhile people are fapping furiously to the similarly straightforward and gamey class mechanics of Blackguards and MMX so :balance:

    No shit. But consider its roots for a second. Just those abilities alone makes PE rogues more interesting than rogues in any D&D CRPG so far.

    Which is what I find funny, since almost everything so far is heavily delineated by the D&D CRPG roles everyone loves to be pigeonholed into except with higher emphasis on tactical depth so wut

    (Exception being the monk, which I found really retarded the moment they announced, but I really hate the whole "our elves are different" type of thing. If you have a new concept then roll with it and don't tether it to old shit and mess with people's expectations.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2014
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  19. cherry blossom Arcane

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    Oh, and the best part about the update, my favourite: anyone notice the SNEAK Attack ?

    Read that again: it works when your target is already in an alarmed state where his or her capabilities are temporarily hampered. That is supposed to be a sneak attack.

    Not when your opponent is merely unaware, suspicious, sleeping or what have you, but when he or she is fully involved in a conflict, alarmed and aware of the dangers except with a penalty.

    [​IMG]

    Yup, amazing logic there, Josh.

    Now the second part of the description is a little more sensible but not the first part.

    Those of us who appreciate using well established terms to mean the things they traditionally mean would possibly appreciate a more sensible name for that kind of attack, I think.
     
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  20. Shadowfang Arcane

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    That is very true, but people
    aren't praising those games for having boring and simple combat abilities and character creation options.
    They are fapping furiously to those games in spite of having boring and simple combat abilities and character creation options.
    Now, those games have something going in their
    favor that PE does not. They are turn based.
     
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  21. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    cherry blossom Uh that's how sneak attacks in 3rd Edition D&D worked
     
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  22. ZagorTeNej Arcane

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    I like that every class will have a number of unique abilities, melee classes mostly reduced to auto-attacking was the biggest flaw of IE games for me.

    I doubt it will be that rigid in the actual game but still if certain classes don't excel in certain roles compared to others then what's the point of having classes in the first place? Differences between ranger, fighter and paladin in IE games were mostly in flavour (though kits and some mods help in that regard), why not make them play more differently?
     
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  23. cherry blossom Arcane

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    And I thought Sawyer hated Hated HATED! 3rd DnD.
     
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  24. cherry blossom Arcane

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    It is funny how they are still sticking with the silly half standing arches with magical goo nonsense in the new screenshot.

    [​IMG]

    By the way, are these screens on the game's official page new or were they up for a while?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Infinitron I post news Patron

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