Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Efe]

and if he does, what are you betting?

 

[Grimnir]

I remember Llengrath getting wrecked by Concelhaut, and my team killing the dragons in seconds. The story characters have horrible stats, but they shouldn't have a hard time unless you never bother respeccing them.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Meh, you are so overpowered by then, I don't really see how you can not have a working tactic memorized by then.

This exactly.

That fight was a huge bummer and disappointment. On paper it suppose to be uber-hard tactical challenge requiring careful strategy and planning - it's high lvl wizard and two dragons after all - but at this point you are so OPd, that any semi-optimal party should have no troubles whatsoever. I beat it on first or second go, with almost the same party as Grunker (with main char glass cannon rogue and GM instead of Maneha), and cannot recall having any specific tactic. With five or six summon figurines providing army of decoys, Durance and other chars with arcana can buff the shit out of your whole party, to the point you don't have to give a fuck about anything. There is no cheese or abuse of mechanics required - at this point, you are just overleveled for this encounter.

Pack of ogres in front of the cave in Elmshore were way harder tbh.

 

[Elephantman]

abusing PoE-mechanics

xDDDDD
"""Pallegina to the West with a swarm of summons on her tail, draw the green dragon"""
"""Rest of the team fall back for Shackle Prayer, Crown, Devotions. Then summon Concelhaut to Crush of Doom a random mage"""

You are maxed and fight unfair by abusing the AI lelz.
Concelhaut under Devotions is a borderline 7th party member who can Drain half the trash alone. Not even mentioning that he can keep the weaker dragon prone for half the spell.

Video example of some maxed neutral positive one, where all his casters spend most of the time autoattacking - and this guy, the game is not designed for him but for even shittier players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1k3MGsleUY

And these people write "definitive rtwp reviews"! With quality quotes like: "In addition, AD&D is actually a fairly simplistic system despite the "advanced" moniker."
The same fucker is too dumb to stack Acc and apply CC. Its a secretary at a team meeting telling you how to design good APIs. Fucking lol.

 

[Grunker]

You seem to be very upset about video games

 

[Grunker]

chars with arcana.

*Lore, and I don't use scrolls, I find them to be a bit too cheesey, undercutting class distinctions. It's also my first potd playthrough with a priest, I tend to avoid them since dealing with status ailments is more fun for me

 

[Shadenuat]

It's only hard if you're underleveled.

I remember casting aoe accuracy buff, some walls of many colors and firestorms, that was it.
No party member died I think.

It is not first time I see PnP players for some reason having massively more trouble with these games, very odd phenomenon, but hey, he did it.

I don't use scrolls, I find them to be a bit too cheesey

That makes more sense. But then don't pretend fight is hard if you're doing it handicapped.

Increasing your accuracy by any means possible is pretty much where PoE combat begins and ends.

 

[pomenitul]

It's harder and more fun if you're using story companions (and not min-maxing your main).

 

[Shadenuat]

There isn't much difference, there is even respec option.

And I am not even sure how u minmax or not minmax your main. Stats don't affect game as much as in other RPGs.

 

[Butter]

There isn't much difference, there is even respec option.

And I am not even sure how u minmax or not minmax your main. Stats don't affect game as much as in other RPGs.

Dumping Resolve for most classes.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well for main it affects dialogue.

My most memorable moment about stats was with Deadfire though, where I got into some trap and it lowered Might of my fighter by -10 I believe. However because of the many other 0.2 modifiers to damage I continued to fight and only noticed it about an hour or more when I was checking my food buffs. In ye olde rpg he'd probably wouldn't even be able to move due to overencumbrance or something.

PoE1 I remember playing with stats something like 12 or 14 in everything for curiosity and it still worked fine.

That name you can't pronounce Morka Gorka fight horribly destroyed me on max level party minus 2, but when I actually got to max level it was fairly straightforward.

 

[Tigranes]

When you do minmax, stacking your might higher can make a massive difference. Other than overencumbrance, you can also fight vamps etc in BG2 and not really notice the drain.

I'd say the relevant points are that (1) the game is generally easy enough that you may not notice, and (2) the UI / info feedback is bad enough that you may not notice.

 

[Shadenuat]

Drain kinda kills you and I believe lowers max HP, THAC0, removes caster slots (ugh) - I'd say you obviously become less effective. I'd say it is not a great example since it really put some fear into players back then. (and still does)

Both of your points are fair though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

New Safav is even worse than the old Safav.

 

[Roguey]

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy. The kind of people that made Sawyer tune right-thinking people out.

 

[Shadenuat]

RPG can be easy but stats can still affect things strong and nice, like original Fallout is not very hard, or like Long Live the Qu-
hm no Long live queen is pretty hard, nevermind.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy. The kind of people that made Sawyer tune right-thinking people out.

I've been looking for a word to describe it, and it's not "easy". "Made difficult in a dumb way" is the more accurate description of the combat.

 

[Grunker]

There are many kinds of ad&d cultist bullshit but the claim that poe stats don't matter is certainly in the top 5. How you can say something like what shadenuat is saying with a straight face while 3/6 stats literally don't have any sort of impact whether they're 3 or whether they're 18 in for instance bg or some of the goldbox games is just nutso. delusional

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy.

It's less that and more the obvious lack of a relative scale, making it smell like bullshit. I can't recall many RPGs off the top of my head that are harder than PoE1 on potd (unfortunately, #2 takes a massive difficulty dive excepting the megabosses and the beginning of the game), and I've played most of them.

So if all RPGs are just trivial to these people, a) I mean congrats I guess you're the kingpin of an obscure video game genre but the point is b) what's the relevance when discussing whether a particular game is "easy" or "hard"? If all games are easy it's a meaningless term describing nothing, and what RPGs are hard relative to potd poe? I think not many

 

[Shadenuat]

Definitely no-agenda reply there, PnP expert-guy.

 

[Grunker]

Stats don't matter in PoE

They matter more than in, say, the games you're often referencing, here's a few examples

you are evil person

slamdunked by superior grognard arguments once again

 

[Grunker]

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy. The kind of people that made Sawyer tune right-thinking people out.

I've been looking for a word to describe it, and it's not "easy". "Made difficult in a dumb way" is the more accurate description of the combat.

What turn-based or rtwp rpgs would you say are difficult in a smart way? sincerely curious

 

[Shadenuat]

allow me to help you with correct use of quote option

Stats don't matter in PoE Stats don't affect game as much as in other RPGs.

They matter more than in, say, the games you're often referencing games you didn't mention which were made 20+ years ago meaning PoE design is brilliant

 

[Riddler]

There are many kinds of ad&d cultist bullshit but the claim that poe stats don't matter is certainly in the top 5. How you can say something like what shadenuat is saying with a straight face while 3/6 stats literally don't have any sort of impact whether they're 3 or whether they're 18 in for instance bg or some of the goldbox games is just nutso. delusional

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy.

It's less that and more the obvious lack of a relative scale, making it smell like bullshit. I can't recall many RPGs off the top of my head that are harder than PoE1 on potd (unfortunately, #2 takes a massive difficulty dive excepting the megabosses and the beginning of the game), and I've played most of them.

So if all RPGs are just trivial to these people, a) I mean congrats I guess you're the kingpin of an obscure video game genre but the point is b) what's the relevance when discussing whether a particular game is "easy" or "hard"? If all games are easy it's a meaningless term describing nothing, and what RPGs are hard relative to potd poe? I think not many

First off, the relevant comparison for PoE is 3.5e or pathfinder and secondly, unlike in PoE, a stat increase of the relevant stats in 2e actually has a measurable effect unlike in PoE. Getting a belt of hill giant strength is fun because something actually happens when you equip it.

The issue with the difficulty in PoE is both that it is facerollingly easy past the first few hours and secondly and more importantly it never forces you to adjust, ever (except the mega bosses). This leads to a situation where the combat is completely unengaging because you never actually change anything. In PoE you throw on your buffs, apply the aoe debuffs to the enemies and vail away on them. In PoE2 you alpha strike the enemies. You never have to adjust your strategy.

If you want to make a game easy then for the love of God at least include some hard counters(or something) so that players actually have to mix up their strategy a little bit.

 

[Parabalus]

First off, the relevant comparison for PoE is 3.5e or pathfinder and secondly, unlike in PoE, a stat increase of the relevant stats in 2e actually has a measurable effect unlike in PoE. Getting a belt of hill giant strength is fun because something actually happens when you equip it.

The 19 strength stuff is a bad comparison, unravel 18/01 to 18/00 and you'll see its not a major per point % boost, it's just a hidden +5/6/7 item.

 

[Grunker]

allow me to help you with correct use of quote option

Stats don't matter in PoE Stats don't affect game as much as in other RPGs.

They matter more than in, say, the games you're often referencing games you didn't mention which were made 20+ years ago meaning PoE design is brilliant

I mean QED. Here's how I reduced your point:

Stats don't matter in PoE

Here's your version:

no no I just said they matter less than in other games

So my question remains exactly the same *since I specifically pointed out that the opposite was the case*. And your reply is "but those games are older?"

That's like my point. Marginal deficiencies in PoE are the subject of extreme scrutiny, while huge, glaring flaws in the games the ad&d crowd compares it too are glossed over without a thought. In this case, the difference of say, Might's potential 20-40% damage variation impact is neglible for you while the RPGs we're comparing it to's literal non-impactful stats are somehow not relevant.

There are many kinds of ad&d cultist bullshit but the claim that poe stats don't matter is certainly in the top 5. How you can say something like what shadenuat is saying with a straight face while 3/6 stats literally don't have any sort of impact whether they're 3 or whether they're 18 in for instance bg or some of the goldbox games is just nutso. delusional

Top 1%: of players: Everything is easy.

It's less that and more the obvious lack of a relative scale, making it smell like bullshit. I can't recall many RPGs off the top of my head that are harder than PoE1 on potd (unfortunately, #2 takes a massive difficulty dive excepting the megabosses and the beginning of the game), and I've played most of them.

So if all RPGs are just trivial to these people, a) I mean congrats I guess you're the kingpin of an obscure video game genre but the point is b) what's the relevance when discussing whether a particular game is "easy" or "hard"? If all games are easy it's a meaningless term describing nothing, and what RPGs are hard relative to potd poe? I think not many

First off, the relevant comparison for PoE is 3.5e or pathfinder.

Both systems where increases in stats can do *literally nothing* if you hit unequal increments (and systems that I love, but that's besides the point). And no, comparisons to AD&D are very relevant since that's the system most PoE-detractors praise.

The issue with the difficulty in PoE is both that it is facerollingly easy.

You are literally replying to posts asking for relative comparisons with the same general statements being critized.