Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Planescape Characters

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by kingcomrade, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,762
    Why doesn't The Nameless One forget anything when you die in game?
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Drakron Arcane

    Drakron
    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,098
    It only happens with a particular violent death.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    It only happens if he is killed by the shadows that the Transcendent One sends. The TO knew that the shadows could never kill TNO, but they could keep him bewildered. He explains it at the game's final conversation.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,762
    Nothing happens in game when the shadows kill you.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. Drakron Arcane

    Drakron
    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,098
    Yes but that was the point, violent deaths would make TNO forget everything and that was what the shadows were trying to do ... obvious it was not violent enough when they kill him.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Thrawn05 Scholar

    Thrawn05
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    The Mirror of Death void
    The dustmen are really a unique group of people that's for sure. They never really explained why they feel this way IIRC.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    He has a new journal.

    Also, when you are talking to the final boss, one of the conversation options is something like:
    But when I die I don't lose my memories anymore, you are failing etc.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Thrawn05 Scholar

    Thrawn05
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    The Mirror of Death void
    Hmmm, my stats must be messed up since I didn't see that option. It's been a long time anyway so I might have forgotton that one.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. WouldBeCreator Scholar

    WouldBeCreator
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    936
    ^ Top  
  10. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    Well what I got from the game, besides at the end conversation where TO tells TNO that he sends out the shadows to steal his memories and the conversation option is part of another one, it's buried in text, but I distinctly remember it. I wish I had kept my savegame from the end so I could be more precise. Also, I can't find my utility which allows me to read PST dialogue, I'll have to download it again and I'll paste the text here.
    Anyways, there was the bit in that alleyway, where it was the last time he lost his memories, because the shadows caught up with him and killed him. Not exactly a violent death, but it caused him to lose his memories and undergo a personality shift.

    I am mistaken about it only being shadows, though. I just remembered, when he was first made immortal, Ravel killed him as a test and he lost his memories. It's just that in the game TNO has overcome the amnesiatic quality of himself. Like I said, I'll find the text using that utility and paste it for you guys.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    Found it:
    ASK YOUR QUESTIONS. BUT KNOW YOU SHALL NEVER REMEMBER THE ANSWERS.

    "I may be immortal, but Ravel told me the ritual was flawed: Whenever I die, I lose a fraction of my mind. In time, after many deaths, I shall lose the ability to even think for myself."

    IT IS OF NO MATTER. YOU CANNOT DIE. YOUR MIND MAY BE LOST, BUT YOUR FLESH WILL LIVE ON. THAT IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED.

    "'Needed?' Why?"

    WE SHARE A LINK, YOU AND I, HOWEVER SMALL. I DO NOT WISH YOU DESTROYED, ONLY FAR FROM ME.

    "Then why have you been trying to *kill* me all this time?"

    IT IS OF *NO* CONSEQUENCE.

    "Wait... those shadows you sent against me -- they never succeeded in killing me... but that was never their *purpose,* was it? They only 'kill' me to make me forget."

    THERE IS *NOTHING* IN YOUR SHELL OF A MIND THAT IS OF CONSEQUENCE, BROKEN ONE.

    "Except one thing - now I know where you are and what you are, I could tell others, or find you again myself. One day I might remember how to reach you, and you will have to face me again. That's why you want me to forget, isn't it?"

    I SEE TIME'S BLADE HAS NOT BLED YOUR MIND OF ALL REASON. MY PURPOSE WAS ALWAYS SUCH: TO MAKE YOU FORGET.

    "But *why?* Why do-"

    BECAUSE I NEVER AGAIN WISH TO SUFFER YOUR *PRESENCE,* BROKEN ONE. YOU ARE AN IRRITATION, A REMINDER OF WHAT LIFE ONCE WAS, AND I DETEST SUCH REMINDERS. I WISH TO BE LEFT IN PEACE IN MY FORTRESS.

    <NO TEXT>

    AS YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN ME, I WISH TO FORGET YOU. FOREVER.

    "But I no longer forget when I die. Perhaps once, but no longer."

    YOU LIE. YOU HAVE ALWAYS FORGOTTEN. AND I HAVE ALWAYS REMEMBERED. IT WAS ALWAYS SUCH.

    "'Always' doesn't mean what it once did. I have died, time and again, and my memories have returned to me."

    YOUR DECEPTIONS WILL NOT *SHIELD* YOU HERE, BROKEN ONE.

    "It is the truth. Killing me won't stop me - because killing me doesn't make me *forget* anymore. I'll know you always, I'll remember everything you've done, how to reach here, and eventually, how to destroy you."

    THEN I SHALL IMPRISON YOU, NAMELESS ONE. IF YOU WILL NOT FORGET, THEN I SHALL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BE FREE.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,762
    That still leaves the question: why is he no longer forgetting?
     
    ^ Top  
  13. WouldBeCreator Scholar

    WouldBeCreator
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    936
    At that point, I believe the reason the player is able to say that is that he's unlocked the Bronze Sphere, which may stop the forgetting process. Dunno though.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    No, one of the triggers listed in the program I used to cut and paste all of that is that you have to have died at any point in the game. If you've died once (rather than multiple times) you get a slightly different dialogue option, and if you've never died you don't get to select this option. So, it's not just after you get the bronze sphere, but at any time in the game.

    Pan: I'm not sure, actually. It might just be because you are "special" this time around because the game is centered on this part of TNO's life, if you understand what I mean. I might check around later and see the dialogues with Ravel and the Good Incarnation and see if I find anything.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,686
    Location:
    is cold
    I could've been missed out something important, but as it has settled in my mind the previous incarnations of NO lost their memory when they got to the Fortress of Regrets and lost the struggle with shadows/TO. Not just by ''casually'' dying at any time.
    In the final dialogue TO says something along the lines ''you will die now and forget everything again bla bla.. just liek previously'' which implies, that NO memory loss is soemthing that has been directly linked with Fortress, TO and shadows.
    Maybe I'm just making things up though.

    Althogh that leaves only 3 previous incarnatoins in totall, those that you meet in the final.
    I'm still confused about this part of the plot.
    The scene when you meet ''practical'', ''good'' and ''paranoid'' versions of yourself still looks like more of some kind of symbolic cleverness made by writer than an actual plot device that could be explained in a racional way.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    26,884
    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    No, you lost your memory whenever you died before. The first time after you gain you your immortality, Ravel kills you to see if it worked, and you come back to life but you've lost your memory.

    The Practical Good and Paranoid ones were the only ones to reach the Fortress of Regrets and they are stuck inside TNO's mind (as they were previous personalities). The reason they appear is because of the Crystal Prison that the Transcendent One tries to capture you with (during your fight with Ignus). Deionarra is the one who saves you, after you've dealt with your own alternate personalities.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Antagonist Liturgist

    Antagonist
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Glorious Vaterland
    One of the inscriptions in TNO's tomb mentions some kind of prophecy that at one point he would stop losing his memories. It was never explained in full detail though. I believe it was meant as a hint for people who wondered why he keeps his memories without destroying the mystery about his past.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. WouldBeCreator Scholar

    WouldBeCreator
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    936
    Couldn't find that inscription (did you mean: "Memories are gone, perhaps never to return"?) but found this one, which send shivers through me even after so many playthroughs and so many years since playing the game:

    Goddamn that game was put together well. So many connections forward and backward.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Darkseid Novice

    Darkseid
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4
    I believe the inscription was something to the effect of TNO having to suffer 3 subsequent deaths before he'd begin to retain his memories. One of the dialogue lines in Ravel's maze has her explaining that your memory is somehow bound to your mortality.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Tris McCall Novice

    Tris McCall
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    jersey city, new jersey
    Yes, that gives me the chills just re-reading it.... all these years since playing the game.

    I should really give it another play-through. It's the only game I liked that I've never replayed, because it meant so much to me that I felt like I'd cheapen the memory by rehashing any of it. But 1999 was a long time ago.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Kairal Novice

    Kairal
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    It's definietely not just the shadows. Does anyone remember, I think it's when you talk to Morte about the extra line on your back he tells you about an incarnation who thought he was your skull and chased him around Sigil until being killed by a runaway cart. Sounds like he died for good and a new incarantion was born.

    Also only the Practical incarnation made it to the Fortress of Regrets. I think you're told that the three incarnations were the three closest to the surface of your mind. Probably because you keep hearing about them. Anyway gotta go I'll finish this later.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Jora Arcane

    Jora
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,115
    Location:
    Finland
    The shadows were used to kill the people that might lead TNO to the fortress so that he would never find it again.

    The reason for TNO not forgetting anything is not explained but it's indeed a prophecy The Paranoid Incarnation heard and mentioned in his journal.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. MINIGUNWIELDER Scholar

    MINIGUNWIELDER
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    604
    http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/v2 ... =ravenloft found here

    sounds reasonable
     
    ^ Top  
  24. WouldBeCreator Scholar

    WouldBeCreator
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    936
    Wow, that made me hate AD&D even more, and the misspelling of "dweomer" was only the tip of the iceburg. :)
     
    ^ Top  
  25. MINIGUNWIELDER Scholar

    MINIGUNWIELDER
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    604
    SCREW YOU!!!


    .....yeah i only like 2.5 for ravenloft, greyhawk, planescape, and dragonlance

    and tieflings werent underpowered gimps they were a race consisting primarily of badass CN rouges with repeating crossbows

    oh and the fact that lord soth exists in the Dragonlance books links all the decent campaign settings together

    ....ill shut up now
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)