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Planescape Characters

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
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Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
remeber wayyyyy back in the mortuary this zombie just walk in 3 paths..forming a triangle. and morte said something about the rule of the 3?

think this is the only obvious link to why only 3 incarnations made it to the fortress?
as for TNO not losing memory from his previous death,I'm actually confused to how many times he has 're-incarnated'. Morte said TNO died after getting ran over by a cart while chasing him, but I think that's BS...cause the truth is Morte ran away from the Fortress while he was with the Practical Incarnation, correct?
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
I always figured the 'rule of 3' mention was a hint to a later event.
 

bryce777

Erudite
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
4,225
Location
In my country the system operates YOU
RK47 said:
remeber wayyyyy back in the mortuary this zombie just walk in 3 paths..forming a triangle. and morte said something about the rule of the 3?

think this is the only obvious link to why only 3 incarnations made it to the fortress?
as for TNO not losing memory from his previous death,I'm actually confused to how many times he has 're-incarnated'. Morte said TNO died after getting ran over by a cart while chasing him, but I think that's BS...cause the truth is Morte ran away from the Fortress while he was with the Practical Incarnation, correct?

That was a different incarnation. The paranoid incarnation.


Also, now that I think of it, if practical was the last incarnation then how could he have pulled morte from the skull.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
There were more.

Morte even says when a LG incarnation found out that Monte was in the Pillar he tried to shove him back, that pretty much shows that TNO had more that just those 4 incarnations we see in the game.
 

burrie

Scholar
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
317
Location
Holland
Just curious, is the "Rule of Three" a part of the Planescape setting, or was it created for Torment?
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
In my opinion, the main philosophical ideas in Torment would be: 'Changing the nature of a man only leads to torment', and 'You can only escape your fate to a more painful one'.

Most important characters in Torment are an illustration of those concepts:
Morte, in nature a lying, knowledge hungry skull from the pillar, is changed into his Good self by his guilt. Naturally, this guild torments him. (note: Morte is the only fallen-from-grace who doesn't long for his former existance)
Dak'kon, his nature changed by his belief, a fallen from grace githzerai. Seeking to escape his fate of not knowing himself and being a broken shell, he stumbles into a more painful one, at least for a githzerai - eternal slavery to the Nameless one.
Nordom's change of nature and fall from grace are caused by the planes - specifically, Limbo. He is tormented by this loss, maybe more than other characters. As other FFGs, he loses his wings.
Fall-from-grace is changed by her suffering in Baator. She lies to herself that she is happy with her new nature, but like in the others' cases, she is tormented by the loss.
Trias, his nature changed by greed (I think), has fallen from his celestial home, and, of course, lost his wings. Like the others, he is tormented.
Pharod, a more tragic character, who is changed by greed. In trying to escape his fate on the Pillar of Skulls, he changes from a rich nobleman into the King of Rags, but this only brings him even more suffering.
Fhjull is changed by the betrayal of Trias, and, obviously, loses his wings.

On the other hand, there are those characters who accept their nature and fate. Vhailor and Ignus, rather than changing their natures, embrace them in their purest form. Thus, Vhailor becomes a creature of pure justice, and Ignus a creature of fire and chaos. They are the ones least tormented, and nearly happy.
Also, Ravel knows that her fate is that of punishment in the maze, and that in trying to escape the maze, she would only receive further suffering. So she accepts that fate, and her nature remains unchanged.

Finally, we have the Nameless One. Trying to escape his fate of eternal damnation in Hell, he goes to Ravel to change his nature. But his new fate is much worse than his previous one, and his new nature only brings him torment. So, during the course of the game, he finally accepts his true fate, his true nature, and in regaining them, he leaves his torments behind.
Thus, the question of the game isn't as much "What can change the nature of a man", but rather "What is the price for changing one's nature".
 

Pussycat669

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
667
Location
In a fine suit
Lumpy said:
In my opinion, the main philosophical ideas in Torment would be: 'Changing the nature of a man only leads to torment', and 'You can only escape your fate to a more painful one'.

Sorry, but I can't agree. I think that the most important predication the story wants to make is the answer to the 'change of man' question which would be belief. Your belief in a certain virtue or morality determines how you recognize the world around you and how you carry those personal views into it thus turning them into reality through actions which ultimately reveal your nature. So it all ends in a happy free for all quiet nicely, from my point of view.
Major examples would be Morte (remorse), Annah (love) and D'ackon (religious faith).
And it is doubt and indecision that leads to torment.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
368
Location
Iasi, Romania?... Postcount: bigger then yours
bryce777 said:
Also, now that I think of it, if practical was the last incarnation then how could he have pulled morte from the skull.

Acording to the Good incarnation, the three look-alikes present in the Fortress of Regrets weren't previous incarnations, but rather parts of TNO's personality and conscequences that he had to endure from his former lives. Thus meaning that the practical incarnation didn't represent the last life he had, but rather all the selfish and well calculated things TNO did in his past, like killing the poor and pulling Morte out of the Pillar.

Oh! And the practical incarnation wasn't his last life, the practical incarnation died in the fortress, while his last life died in the alley ligering sighs

Besides nobody says they've reached the Fortress besides the practical iincarnation. The paranoid one was too obsest with gaurding his own body to reach the Fortress and the Transcendent One was too weak by the time of the Good Incarnation to build the pocket plane


PS: My only disapointment with the game was that the last dialog wasn't 100% voiced. We're talking about Tony Jay's voice here... God rest his soul... and IMO PS:T was by far his best preformance.
 

LCJr.

Erudite
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
2,469
WouldBeCreator said:
There were definitely many more incarnations. The game says so a fair number of times.

Been awhile since I played it so my memory is probably rusty. But anyway isn't each one of the shadows one of his previous incarnations or someone who died so he could come back?
 

somnium

Scholar
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
142
LCJr. said:
WouldBeCreator said:
There were definitely many more incarnations. The game says so a fair number of times.

Been awhile since I played it so my memory is probably rusty. But anyway isn't each one of the shadows one of his previous incarnations or someone who died so he could come back?

Someone who died so he could come back.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Actually, the three guys at the fortress are the ones who were the most present in the current TNO's life. They were three because of the Rule-of-Three thing.
The Good incarnation was the original one, at first a bad guy, who changes and becomes good.
The Practical Incarnation is an older one (maybe 50-80 years ago) - the guy who got both Morte and Dak'kon into the party. He can't be too recent, because Morte seems to have seen many incarnations, but not too old either, since Deionarra's father still lives, and she died at the same time as Practical, and also the coffinmaker's father was killed by the practical one.
The Paranoid one was even newer - he has destroyed much of the Paranoid's work and set some traps for future incarnations. It might be possible for him to be the previous incarnation.
They were certainly not the only ones - there seem to have been hundreds or thousands on incarnations.
 

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