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Torment Planescape: Torment has bad writing

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Safav Hamon, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. Rinslin Merwind Learned

    Rinslin Merwind
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    Ok, sorry then, perhaps I can blame education in my country, because I was told all my life that Russia count as part of Eastern Europe. Anyway, it doesn't make Eastern Europe a better place, because at some point in history Eastern Europe was ravaged by Russia and people were brainwashed, in result many countries left with "heritage" as corruption, poverty and many nasty things.
     
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  2. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    It depends on what they mean by that. A small part of it is in Eastern Europe, but the vast majority of it isn't.
     
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  3. Rinslin Merwind Learned

    Rinslin Merwind
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    I know this, I think we just miss understood each other and was talking about different definitions of "Eastern Europe" term. Sorry sometimes, I just dumb. I thought Eastern Europe was meant in geographical sense, so I thought bringing problems of people who living in Russia will be relevant (because in geographical terms they still living in Eastern Europe), but seems there was more about cultural and economical definition. My apologies.
     
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  4. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

    Strange Fellow
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    Infinitron please split this off topic discussion into a separate thread thanks
     
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  5. Rinslin Merwind Learned

    Rinslin Merwind
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    Why split this already dead off-topic discussion instead of deleting it? This discussion is pointless anyway.
     
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  6. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
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    infinitron sighs, and presses split threads button again, now between gaming and politics forum

    posts and usernames sip through his fingers like sand or fine dust.
     
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  7. almondblight Arcane

    almondblight
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    I was always amused that "I'm looking for my father, middle-aged guy, have you seen him?" was always held up as bad writing, but the game with the BEST WRITING EVAR has you wandering through a city constantly walking up to random strangers and asking "I've lost my journal. Have you seen it?"

    Anyway, if you think Planescape's writing is great, more power to you. I doubt the Codex would have found something like this wonderful if it popped up in PoE:

    Show Spoiler

    Your eyes snap open - it is HIS voice! You whirl, and you gasp; he stands, powerful, in the shadows, and he strides into the light of the drifting candled globes, and you feel the serpent writhing and DYING... he returned! His face, stern, but somewhere, in those features, you can almost see his pleasure at seeing you. After all, he returned for y-

    Echo: "Only you can help me, Deionarra. But it was wrong for me to ask you for your help..."

    You speak... Deionarra... yet you, it is YOU, gray-skinned like a statue, striding from the light - are you that *scarred*?! Your body looks like it has been bathed in knife blades, the wounds, the tattoos, horrible - yet, you see through DEIONARRA'S EYES, and she sees... how can she SEE you in such a way, she puts a CLOAK over your features, she sees you in such *light*, such terrible longing, *light*... for she... how... can she FEEL such...?

    Try to re-focus, brace yourself, hold onto the experience...

    You feel your vision tearing, doubling until you are that man striding from the light, it IS you, but NOT you... you feel yourself being TORN; it is Deionarra's experience, but at the same time, it is also *yours*, and you... what...

    Echo: "I asked too much of you to accompany me, Deionarra. I have no right to place you in such danger for my sake..."

    It is your words, but they are a surgeon's words, chosen with cold skill, without a TRACE of emotion. With every word, you feel yourself SNEERING inside, knowing what the (stricken) girl will see next through her (longing-stained) eyes, and who - are you THAT person, that man TWISTING her with your words, not KNOWING how powerful they are to her, like bolts from a ballista, piercing her breast, her... yet, she SEES only RELIEF at your return. How... how can she FEEL... and not know you mean to...?
     
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  8. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Geee guys,i think that we are offtopic again,maybe the thread should be split a few more times. What is that,a third time it was cut out,only?
     
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  9. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    That is one of the Sensate memories, right? It's perfectly in-context and reveals a lot about that past incarnation of yourself. The descriptions are such because of the mixed thoughts of the Nameless One in the present and Deionarra's emotions at that time. At first glance, it's not clear who is actually experiencing it, whether it's TNO or Deionarra and that's one of the goals.
     
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  10. janjetina Arcane

    janjetina
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    Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Tell me about Arcanum.
     
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  11. Bocian Arcane

    Bocian
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    Planescape: Torment is probably the only one computer game where I read every line of every description and character dialogue, without skipping. It's the game where random, generic named zombies were different from each other. Every one had their own number and their own "story" presented in an unusual way. I don't know any other game that had so much visible, plain clear effort and heart put into its presentation, and I played it long before I was exposed to any opinions or criticism towards it. Thus, it'll remain the best experience I've had in a game, no matter how many tumblr college graduates will disavow it and how many self-proclaimed writers will criticize it while their works are unreadable and worthless in every possible aspect. And I suppose I'm not the only one.

    Edit:
    Great job taking it out of context. You've pulled out a tiny fraction of the game's writing where the context matters everything - it's a description from a sensory stone, which allows someone to feel emotions stored inside. This one belonged to the paranoid incarnation of the main character and the writing conveyed it as such. When you encounter it in game it's in no way jarring or unappealing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
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  12. Cross Savant

    Cross
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    False equivalency on several levels:
    • Finding your journal (well journals, since there are several) is an optional side objective, you never even have to ask that question even once. Finding your father is your character's primary goal for most of FO3.
    • The Nameless One's amnesia means he doesn't know what his journal looks like or what it contains and therefore can't describe it, unlike FO3's protagonist who could describe his father in detail yet doesn't.
    • The existence of divination magic and the general moon logic of the setting make that question much more logical to ask in PS:T than in a game like FO3.
    • PS:T is self-aware enough that NPCs frequently comment on TNO's habit of going around and asking questions.
    • The handling of the search for the journal actually makes sense. The only NPC in the entire game who responds positively to that question and who gives you a clue where your journals are is Barking-Wilder, leader of the Chaosmen faction. Why? Presumably because the paranoid incarnation who wrote those journals was a madman himself and a member of the Chaosmen faction at some point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
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  13. BING XI LAO Savant

    BING XI LAO
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    The generous use of ellipses, capitalisation and some hyphens is fun and pulpy - certainly not thesaurus-basher type of overwritten or faux-intellectual. Pillars 1 has an obvious Deionarra-esque figure, namely Iovara, so we can use that as a direct comparison. The comparison is extremely favourable to Planescape because Iovara's conversations are just boring! There's no manipulation of a murderous schemer acting behind a facade of romance, there's just lame gaytheist backstory. That scene in Planescape is the single best part of the game in my view.

    It did pop up in Pillars and it was SHIT! because everything in Pillars is too sensible and lowkey.
     
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  14. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    Wow, you are always so observant of the injustice the Codex shows towards poor Bethesda.

    But here's the funny part: you are an imbecile who can't even comprehend what he reads, clearly proven by your imbecilic analysis of Arcanum's beginning.
    So, more power to you being an imbecile.
     
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  15. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

    Strange Fellow
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    I always thought that line was mocked because it's such a hilariously shit description. What's he look like? "Middle-aged guy."
     
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  16. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    That would have been true if it was part of dialogue like in PoE games,it is a memory and thus making perfect. Now go fuck yourself with a jar!
     
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  17. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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  18. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    And they all would be wrong, Rothfuss in particular is yet to release a book that I'm not bored with for a long time.
     
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  19. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    He writes very well and immersive,still a tad bit too pedo and the hero is a bit of annoyingly perfect and cliche. I was more interested about the "present" day events than the collage life.
     
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  20. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    How is Safav Hamon without a tag yet?
     
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  21. Life of the Party Arcane

    Life of the Party
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    He splits, his finger a roll of thunder.
     
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  22. AdolfSatan Learned

    AdolfSatan
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    Fucking Christ, why did I read all of that? I think I threw up a bit inside my mouth.

    PS:T's writing reads exactly like what it is: a young author's attempt at digging into a deep subject without the technical know-how to pull it off. That's why often it comes across as angsty and try-hard.
    So... why do we like it? I believe it's analogous to the joy many of us find in say, listening to power metal, where every musician's sloppily playing at his fastest, the singer aiming for notes way beyond his range, and bombastic "orchestrations" are added that show an utter disregard or ignorance for the most basic principles of the craft. We like it because of its youthful vigour; the impetus that permeates it all can't help but jump out of the very screen and infect us with that energy.
    PS:T's writing is bad, but it fits with the theme, with the overwrought setting. And if you can't enjoy it for what it is, perhaps it's because you've never known the exultant spirit of youth and can't relate to it.

    This is also why PoE's writing is insufferable. It has the very same downfalls, but the hunger's not there. It's a bloated and embellished carcass with no soul.
     
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  23. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    PoE writing is like modern luca turilli compared to planescape's early 90s blind guardian
     
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  24. Micormic Unwanted

    Unwanted
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    It is pretentious at times but for whatever reason I still enjoyed it.


    Probably due to how unique the world is.



    and because of Morte.
     
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  25. Master Planetar Hi, my name is Liberal Patron Dumbfuck

    Master Planetar
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Uh-oh, someone just detonated the Legacy of Kain bomb, obsessive fanboy tl;dr incoming.

    Soul Reaver 1 had very verbose dialogue in the cutscenes and the Elder One's exposition scenes. Then Soul Reaver 2 took the writing and story to unprecedented new levels. The entire series is completely unique in how amazing its writing and voice acting are in every single game, despite the fact that they were all made with different concepts in mind:

    Blood Omen was made by Silicon Knights, who disbanded shortly after the game's creation.

    Soul Reaver was made by Crystal Dynamics, but was originally supposed to be a standalone game, with no room for direct sequels (in the original ending, Raziel killed all of his brothers and Kain, and then destroyed all vampires including himself, restoring balance to the world). In fact, early on this game wasn't even supposed to be set in the same universe. Crystal Dynamics then go on to create Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, the two direct sequels to SR1.

    Then a Crystal Dynamics b-team made Blood Omen 2, a direct sequel to Blood Omen, and an interquel to the series, released between SR 2 and Defiance. Blood Omen 2 was also not originally supposed to have anything to do with Legacy of Kain - it was originally envisioned as a sequel to a Sega game called Chakan, and was then repurposed for LoK.
     
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