Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Poll: The Outer Worlds and Fallout: New Vegas

Which one of these describes your opinion most closely?


  • Total voters
    233

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
Also in FNV, the game is clearly hinting that you have amnesia, i mean you got shot in the head for god's sake but the game doesn't explicitly say it to not ruin people's ideas of how to roleplay, if you have amnesia (and personally that's how i roleplay the game) and all you knew was that you got ambushed and shot in the head? wouldn't you be curious as to why this happened and how you got yourself into that situation and most importantly who did it to you?
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Also in FNV, the game is clearly hinting that you have amnesia, i mean you got shot in the head for god's sake but the game doesn't explicitly say it to not ruin people's ideas of how to roleplay, if you have amnesia (and personally that's how i roleplay the game) and all you knew was that you got ambushed and shot in the head? wouldn't you be curious as to why this happened and how you got yourself into that situation and most importantly who did it to you?

No, it doesn't. You don't have amnesia in F:NV. There's even multiple dialouge options that go against it. You may ignore those if you want, and role-play it, but there's no hint that you're an amnesiac. JE Sawyer even confirmed that you're not.

His arguments are still retarded, regardless.
 

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
Also in FNV, the game is clearly hinting that you have amnesia, i mean you got shot in the head for god's sake but the game doesn't explicitly say it to not ruin people's ideas of how to roleplay, if you have amnesia (and personally that's how i roleplay the game) and all you knew was that you got ambushed and shot in the head? wouldn't you be curious as to why this happened and how you got yourself into that situation and most importantly who did it to you?

No, it doesn't. You don't have amnesia in F:NV. There's even multiple dialouge options that go against it. You may ignore those if you want, and role-play it, but there's no hint that you're and amnesiac.

His arguments are still retarded, regardless.

You could roleplay it as though you're remembering as you go along in your journey, or do these dialogue options occur right at the start of the game? i would like to know.

Also even if these dialogue options exist at the start of the game, and i persoanlly don't remember them you can just not choose them.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Also in FNV, the game is clearly hinting that you have amnesia, i mean you got shot in the head for god's sake but the game doesn't explicitly say it to not ruin people's ideas of how to roleplay, if you have amnesia (and personally that's how i roleplay the game) and all you knew was that you got ambushed and shot in the head? wouldn't you be curious as to why this happened and how you got yourself into that situation and most importantly who did it to you?

No, it doesn't. You don't have amnesia in F:NV. There's even multiple dialouge options that go against it. You may ignore those if you want, and role-play it, but there's no hint that you're and amnesiac.

His arguments are still retarded, regardless.

You could roleplay it as though you're remembering as you go along in your journey, or do these dialogue options occur right at the start of the game? i would like to know.

Also even if these dialogue options exist at the start of the game, and i persoanlly don't remember them you can just not choose them.

As I said, you're free to role-play so. In the end though, officially the courier doesn't have or need amnesia.
 

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
Also in FNV, the game is clearly hinting that you have amnesia, i mean you got shot in the head for god's sake but the game doesn't explicitly say it to not ruin people's ideas of how to roleplay, if you have amnesia (and personally that's how i roleplay the game) and all you knew was that you got ambushed and shot in the head? wouldn't you be curious as to why this happened and how you got yourself into that situation and most importantly who did it to you?

No, it doesn't. You don't have amnesia in F:NV. There's even multiple dialouge options that go against it. You may ignore those if you want, and role-play it, but there's no hint that you're and amnesiac.

His arguments are still retarded, regardless.

You could roleplay it as though you're remembering as you go along in your journey, or do these dialogue options occur right at the start of the game? i would like to know.

Also even if these dialogue options exist at the start of the game, and i persoanlly don't remember them you can just not choose them.

As I said, you're free to role-play so. In the end though, officially the courier doesn't have or need amnesia.

I see, well personally i find it to be an amusing way to roleplay, and this is the beauty of having an extremely vague character, you could roleplay however you want, and yet Terenty for some reason wants to make the character pre defined.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I don't remember any evidence that I don't have amnesia. It seemed to be up in the air.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I didn't remember that. But does it prove that the courier remembers normally? He doesn't remember much (if anything, I have to play again and pay attention) in the beginning. Also, I have to recall the discussions with Ulysses. I don't think the Courier remembered the events narrated by Ulysses either (but I may be wrong, have to play again).
 

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
I didn't remember that. But does it prove that the courier remembers normally? He doesn't remember much (if anything, I have to play again and pay attention) in the beginning. Also, I have to recall the discussions with Ulysses. I don't think the Courier remembered the events narrated by Ulysses either (but I may be wrong, have to play again).

I think overall, the game doesn't go out of its way to forcibly contradict an amnesia narrative at all, you can roleplay it however you want.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Kind of surprised Roguey didn't beat me to this
Well, he's incorrect about the Courier; you absolutely do not have amnesia. There is no point at which you are unable to remember aspects of your past and, more importantly, outside of being a courier in the wrong place at the wrong time, your past is considered irrelevant to how you move forward in the story.
from Sawyer
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
As I said, you're free to role-play so. In the end though, officially the courier doesn't have or need amnesia.

First time I played New Vegas I was an NCR spy sniper who was working as a courier undercover. Nothing in the game made me betray that really, that I remember. Maybe the conversation with the ambassador.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
The "criticism" of New Vegas in this thread seems superficial or outright moronic to me. Yeah, the game's butt-ugly, the combat sucks and the engine just fucking blows overall, everybody knows that. There are also other issues like how S.P.E.C.I.A.L. isn't nearly as important as it should be, with skills generally being much more important than their governing attributes. The strengths of the game are in the quest design and the way the game supports different builds, the open-ended structure, the reactivity and the different ways you can affect the game world, small but significant things like being able to finish the game as a pacifist or kill any character in the game world, even if it's an important quest character or the leader of a powerful faction. The fact that FO3 fanboys fail to recognize these aspects is understandable, but you'd expect a bit more from people who actually know something about RPGs. As a role-playing game New Vegas does some exceptional things, even if it's dragged down by the fact that it's build on a much inferior game and an engine that's a pretty poor fit for Fallout.

did you also mod out the meta knowledge you had of the game from playing it start to finish 20 times?

but yeah, it sorta kinda does, doesn't it? by design, as part of the realism and making the world feel connected and lived-in, characters constantly bring up locations in the local area and directions and such, especially in Goodsprings, where a number of characters give you info on the world and go to lengths to tell you where a thing is in relation to another distinct thing (tower, schoolhouse, memorial, this highway, that highway...)

I still kinda doubt that it'd all come together right for a first-timer as it is, but... maybe? I removed shillcheck tags with a mod, that worked too
You can definitely play most of it without any quest markers. There are only a couple of exceptions, like some of the BoS quests (which have an in-game explanation for the GPS), and one or two quests in New Vegas proper that are a bit vague in their descriptions. In almost every quest it's easy to find you way around without any quest markers whatsoever, even on a first playthrough. It's just one of the myriad of little things that New Vegas does to improve on its "predecessor".

As for The Outer Worlds, I'm not expecting miracles, but if they can replicate some of the best aspects of New Vegas it might still be a worthwhile game.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,367
I see, well personally i find it to be an amusing way to roleplay, and this is the beauty of having an extremely vague character, you could roleplay however you want, and yet Terenty for some reason wants to make the character pre defined.

Ok, let me put it this way.

With the way the game sets up its story it doesn't feel natural(for me anyway) to roleplay as some daredevil badass, after being shot in the head and barely surviving. I feel disconnected. The natural course of action for the protagonist is to give up his previous life and keep his head down, not go after the person who ambushed him/her and almost killed. Not to become a vagabond and an errand boy for every person on the way. This is the premise they provided, it feels counter intuitive, its not relatable

Now, if i had a choice to become the resident of Goodsprings, helping them out with some work, maybe going to different settlements, including New Vegas, to get some spare parts, food, water etc., and maybe along the way become entangled in these politics and machinations against your will somehow( i dont know how, its a work for writers), this would at least feel plausible. It would be relatable. This is how it worked in Fallout 1 for the most part.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
556
The "criticism" of New Vegas in this thread seems superficial or outright moronic to me. Yeah, the game's butt-ugly, the combat sucks and the engine just fucking blows overall

stillgood1.gif
 

Okagron

Prophet
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
753
after being shot in the head and barely surviving. I feel disconnected.
People already explained you were ambushed. Don't know why you keep ignoring the people keep saying this, but it feels like part of your agenda to just have a convenient narrative to criticize the game, even when your retarded arguments are refuted.

The natural course of action for the protagonist is to give up his previous life and keep his head down, not go after the person who ambushed him/her and almost killed. Not to become a vagabond and an errand boy for every person on the way. This is the premise they provided, it feels counter intuitive, its not relatable
Natural course varies from person to person. I already explained (and others) that not everybody will react the same way. Specially in a game where you give the backstory to the Courier and not the game itself (for the most part).

Now, if i had a choice to become the resident of Goodsprings, helping them out with some work, maybe going to different settlements, including New Vegas, to get some spare parts, food, water etc., and maybe along the way become entangled in these politics and machinations against your will somehow( i dont know how, its a work for writers), this would at least feel plausible. It would be relatable. This is how it worked in Fallout 1 for the most part.
You mean how you get entangled in the conflict of the Hoover Damn by going after Benny? Yeah, same exact way as Fallout 1. And don't know why you keep going on and on about "relatable", because not everything in fictional media is meant to be relatable. In fact, characters doing actions that are not relatable tend to be some of the most interesting and engaging characters, because they are actually capable of actions a lot of people wouldn't do normally.

It seems at this point you are just blatantly ignoring arguments that clearly refutes your retarded arguments because you have no way of actually countering them. Specially when your retarded arguments could be easily applied to Fallout 1 but that game somehow gets a pass for you.
 
Last edited:

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
I see, well personally i find it to be an amusing way to roleplay, and this is the beauty of having an extremely vague character, you could roleplay however you want, and yet Terenty for some reason wants to make the character pre defined.

Ok, let me put it this way.

With the way the game sets up its story it doesn't feel natural(for me anyway) to roleplay as some daredevil badass, after being shot in the head and barely surviving. I feel disconnected. The natural course of action for the protagonist is to give up his previous life and keep his head down, not go after the person who ambushed him/her and almost killed. Not to become a vagabond and an errand boy for every person on the way. This is the premise they provided, it feels counter intuitive, its not relatable

Now, if i had a choice to become the resident of Goodsprings, helping them out with some work, maybe going to different settlements, including New Vegas, to get some spare parts, food, water etc., and maybe along the way become entangled in these politics and machinations against your will somehow( i dont know how, its a work for writers), this would at least feel plausible. It would be relatable. This is how it worked in Fallout 1 for the most part.

Honestly i think there's enough motivation there to push on with the main quest:
1- Revenge, for almost getting killed and losing your contract.
2- Curiosity, in wanting to know who the guy who tried to kill you is and why the package was so important to him.
3- Greed, since the package is clearly something of great value to warrant an ambush in the first place and the courier might be tempted to get his hands on it.
4- a combination of all of the above.

Now obviously not all people would be motivated enough to chase benny for these reasons alone, but here's the kicker........... you don't have to do it.
In my second playthrough of the game i ignored the main quest completely at first and just wandered around the wasteland doing my own thing, in my journey i made contact with the NCR and ended up aligning with their ideology; eventually i came around to going to vegas, i didn't even look for benny since the character i was roleplaying wasn't interested and i managed to finish the game through the NCR main quest anyways, i was suprised, but appearently i am not the only one who this happened to

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/77mykd/til_you_can_finish_fallout_new_vegas_and_never/ .

From my personal experience; the game has amazing levels of reactivity, you can kill whoever you want, fuck around however you want and completely ignore certain factions or important quests and still finish the game just fine.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,367
People already explained you were ambushed. Don't know why you keep ignoring the people keep saying this, but it feels like part of your agenda to just have a convenient narrative to criticize the game, even when your retarded arguments are refuted.

You seem to be the retard here. What the fuck does it change that i was ambushed? If i was ambushed and survived miraculously from a headshot i wouldn't go after my killer. I would thank God i stayed alive and do something else with my live
And don't know why you keep going on and on about "relatable", because not everything in fictional media is meant to be relatable. In fact, characters doing actions that are not relatable tend to be some of the most interesting and engaging characters, because they are actually capable of actions a lot of people wouldn't do normally.

wtf are you talking about? I thought we were talking about roleplaying here, not some other characters.
You mean how you get entangled in the conflict of the Hoover Damn by going after Benny? Yeah, same exact way as Fallout 1.

Not the same way at all. Why should i go after Benny, why should i go find info about the chip? I don't care about either of these things let me roleplay a believable character who wants to be left alone and live a normal life as i gave the example earlier. I can't ? Well the game is shit then for not providing me the opportunity, but setting up the story that way .
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,367
Now obviously not all people would be motivated enough to chase benny for these reasons alone, but here's the kicker........... you don't have to do it.
In my second playthrough of the game i ignored the main quest completely at first and just wandered around the wasteland doing my own thing, in my journey i made contact with the NCR and ended up aligning with their ideology; eventually i came around to going to vegas, i didn't even look for benny since the character i was roleplaying wasn't interested and i managed to finish the game through the NCR main quest anyways, i was suprised, but appearently i am not the only one who this happened to

Well, this sounds better. And you dont have to mention Benny in dialogue, like, do you know this person etc etc? Just completely ignore this line?
 

barghwata

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
504
Now obviously not all people would be motivated enough to chase benny for these reasons alone, but here's the kicker........... you don't have to do it.
In my second playthrough of the game i ignored the main quest completely at first and just wandered around the wasteland doing my own thing, in my journey i made contact with the NCR and ended up aligning with their ideology; eventually i came around to going to vegas, i didn't even look for benny since the character i was roleplaying wasn't interested and i managed to finish the game through the NCR main quest anyways, i was suprised, but appearently i am not the only one who this happened to

Well, this sounds better. And you dont have to mention Benny in dialogue, like, do you know this person etc etc? Just completely ignore this line?

This was years ago so i don't remember the details, but i am pretty sure i ignored benny completely in my playthrough.

To side with house however, you would have to do the benny quest, since he'll ask you to deal with him before you can gain his trust, but he will offer you a good compensation for it and more to come, in other words you will have a motivation to deal with benny outside of just revenge or something like that.

With Caesar's legion, you will have to finish benny's quest first but i find that this is kind of realistic since you would have to do something like that to attract Caesar's attention in the first place.

It's more nuanced then just "chase benny for the thrills".
 
Last edited:

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Kind of surprised Roguey didn't beat me to this
Well, he's incorrect about the Courier; you absolutely do not have amnesia. There is no point at which you are unable to remember aspects of your past and, more importantly, outside of being a courier in the wrong place at the wrong time, your past is considered irrelevant to how you move forward in the story.
from Sawyer

This is informative *as an intention*, but the interesting question is whether it is supported in-game. The Bruce Isaak memory is supportive, but I don't find it convincing on its own. It sounds like something that a person with amnesia could remember, once he saw the face/heard the voice (although, mind you, I don't really know much about amnesia).

Now, I may be convinced otherwise if the courier also remembers other stuff, but I can't think of any. I have to check whether he remembers the delivery mentioned by Ulysses (although, still, even if he remembers the delivery, it still doesn't prove that the courier didn't regain his memory gradually).

(I don't have stakes in this btw, I usually role play as a dude who is half courier-half handyman)
 
Last edited:

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,214
Courier is the embodiment of all RPG characters; his backstory is that he's been doing fetch quests. Courier is YOU! :dealwithit:
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,626
Location
Granbretan
Poll needs tightening up, it looks bad means you have an opinion, whereas it could be good covers far more territory including the other option. Needs more specificity to avoid lies, damn lies and statistics trope.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
I'm glad to be in the winner's camp. As expected, TOW turned out to be total shit.
TOW is way better than F:NV in pretty much every way, only Bethesda fanbois says otherwise tbh.

1. The combat was improved, feels way better and more like a real shooter. This is what you do most of the game so it's incredibly important to the overall experience.

2. Looks way less ugly, New Vegas looked terrible. TOW is kinda pretty.

3. Choices matter more, in New Vegas you got choices every now and then but they were mostly superficial and didn't change the story. In TOW things you do matter.

4. Waaaay better written companions, who were shallow as f*ck in New Vegas.

5. Less empty spaces and waste of time, New Vegas was a big game but there really wasn't much more in it than was in TOW. 95% of the time was spent just walking or looting containers.

That's my top five reasons TOW kicks ass!
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm glad to be in the winner's camp. As expected, TOW turned out to be total shit.
TOW is way better than F:NV in pretty much every way, only Bethesda fanbois says otherwise tbh.

1. The combat was improved, feels way better and more like a real shooter. This is what you do most of the game so it's incredibly important to the overall experience.

2. Looks way less ugly, New Vegas looked terrible. TOW is kinda pretty.

3. Choices matter more, in New Vegas you got choices every now and then but they were mostly superficial and didn't change the story. In TOW things you do matter.

4. Waaaay better written companions, who were shallow as f*ck in New Vegas.

5. Less empty spaces and waste of time, New Vegas was a big game but there really wasn't much more in it than was in TOW. 95% of the time was spent just walking or looting containers.

That's my top five reasons TOW kicks ass!
Both were shit. And whoevers alt this is needs to try harder.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom