Game News Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #18: George Ziets and Paladins

[Harg Harfardarssen]

I don't actually play 4E, guess I should have said traditional dnd classes

Sorry, my post came off a bit snarkier than I intended - I was trying to point out info I thought might be interesting, not prove you wrong. Since 4e classes are such a departure from traditional dnd party dynamics I think its fair not to include them in a generic reference to DnD classes.

 

[Johannes]

Has multiclassing been confirmed?

Either way too many classes makes me a bit vary, that every character of the same class will be too alike when you add too many different classes.

 

[Leimreу]

The one thing I really hope for is that they will stick to the traditional D&D paladin concept. You see, the good thing about Lawful Good (and Lawful Evil) alignment is that it has conflict at its very core. A D&D paladin always has to find a compromise between following the word of the legal system, his personal code of honor and his feeling of compassion. The fun thing is that it's really hard to find a compromise between these things in some situations or the said compromise might require some significant act of self-sacrifice, since some laws are really strict and unforgiving. I really want Obsidian to thrust such a paladin in some really morally ambiguous situations, so that he would keep asking himself questions and constantly doubting his own judgment. I also would like Obsidian to make the paladin a punishing class to play, which would require the player to either perform some act of self-sacrifice (be it losing money, companions, the ability to finish some quests or something else) or fall from grace. It's really sad that there are only so few games that feature a character, who sees the world and the whole morality issue as black and white, being forced to deal with morally ambiguous situations (the only game I can recall that did this was Inquisitor).

 

[Mrowak]

^ I hope there won't be any alignemt system at all, so we can have all kinds of moral conflicts in "mature" setting they promised to make. D&D alignment kinda destroys that because everything is black/white vs solid/fluid. If your actions can be outright labelled as evil/good or lawful/chaotic, everything player does lacks substance.

Some code of conduct for a paladin (which does not have to be "lawful good", e.g. be chivalrous but only to nobilty - pesants may die), wouldn't be out of place, though.

 

[Leimreу]

I'm aware that the game will probably have no alignment system, what I meant was that a paladin should be someone who follows a very rigid set of rules and has a very well defined code of conduct and honor. Introducing such a character to situations, which result in conflicts between his various beliefs, duty and feelings would be kinda fun.

 

[Commissar Draco]

^ Who said that Good has to be always nice?

 

[Mrowak]

I'm aware that the game will probably have no alignment system, what I meant was that a paladin should be someone who follows a very rigid set of rules and has a very well defined code of conduct and honor. Introducing such a character to situations, which result in conflicts between his various beliefs, duty and feelings would be kinda fun.

And kinda naive. Few medieval knights followed "code of honour" to the letter - those who did were exceptions than anything else. Your usual knight would call upon his creed only when it (politically) suited him.

 

[Leimreу]

I'm no D&D guru, but I do remember that a paladin's actions have to mirror the alignment of his deity, otherwise he will fall and lose his spellcasting abilities. Hence, their code of honor was everything to them. I'm not sure whether PE will have similar rules, though.

 

[tuluse]

I'm no D&D guru, but I do remember that a paladin's actions have to mirror the alignment of his deity, otherwise he will fall and lose his spellcasting abilities. Hence, their code of honor was everything to them. I'm not sure whether PE will have similar rules, though.

In DnD Paladins *have* to be Lawful Good, and if they do any actions that aren't they do lose their powers.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

^ I hope there won't be any alignemt system at all, so we can have all kinds of moral conflicts in "mature" setting they promised to make. D&D alignment kinda destroys that because everything is black/white vs solid/fluid. If your actions can be outright labelled as evil/good or lawful/chaotic, everything player does lacks substance.

Some code of conduct for a paladin (which does not have to be "lawful good", e.g. be chivalrous but only to nobilty - pesants may die), wouldn't be out of place, though.

The alignment system is terrible in cRPGs, but in PnP it works if you ignore the metaphysical qualities you rightly criticize (i.e., actions are objectively good and evil) and treat alignment as a sort of anchor around which to build a character's worldview and roleplay it consistently, particularly if you are inexperienced.

I definitely agree that the Paladin would work better if the restrictions were more rule based rather than alignment based. Kind of like a 10 commandments for Holy Warriors. "Thou shalt not speaketh of Ye Paladin Clubbe"

EDIT:

I'm no D&D guru, but I do remember that a paladin's actions have to mirror the alignment of his deity, otherwise he will fall and lose his spellcasting abilities. Hence, their code of honor was everything to them. I'm not sure whether PE will have similar rules, though.

In DnD Paladins *have* to be Lawful Good, and if they do any actions that aren't they do lose their powers.

Not in 4E! You just have the same alignment as your God!

 

[Mrowak]

I'm no D&D guru, but I do remember that a paladin's actions have to mirror the alignment of his deity, otherwise he will fall and lose his spellcasting abilities. Hence, their code of honor was everything to them. I'm not sure whether PE will have similar rules, though.

I'd rather not. I'd prefer if pleyer's actions were more tied to ethics and they way world perceives him as opposed to arbitrary "you shan't". It would be fun to actually for once play e.g. a corrupt paladin, which thanks to political machinations and trechery mixed with good PR reaches the top position in the organisation of (perhaps) self-proclaimed "do-gooders".

 

[Commissar Draco]

I'm no D&D guru, but I do remember that a paladin's actions have to mirror the alignment of his deity, otherwise he will fall and lose his spellcasting abilities. Hence, their code of honor was everything to them. I'm not sure whether PE will have similar rules, though.

So You can be Paladin of Chaotic Evil deity as Ciric? What abour Blackguards scrapped?

 

[Leimreу]

I dunno about Cyric paladins, but Blackguards weren't divine spellcasters last time I checked. Blackguards are just assholes, self-proclaimed anti-paladins, if you will.

 

[Leimreу]

^ Who said that Good has to be always nice?

Oh, and Angelos is a good example of what I'm talking about here. IIRC, he was the one who condemned his own homeworld to exterminatus on suspicion of corruption and then carried the guilt of his actions. It's a good example of conflict between duty, beliefs and morality.

 

[tuluse]

Not in 4E! You just have the same alignment as your God!

Damn you 4th edition! Always making me wrong!

 

[Commissar Draco]

Oh, and Angelos is a good example of what I'm talking about here. IIRC, he was the one who condemned his own homeworld to exterminatus on suspicion of corruption and then carried the guilt of his actions. It's a good example of conflict between duty, beliefs and morality.

"I'm no stranger to the deaths of planets Cyrene was my home yet when need was made evident i did not hesitate to contact inquisition,
by my hand Cyrene burned, Cyrene's secrets now live solely with me and so shall they die with me,
Whenever I'm victorious or slain my sins will know retribution,
Such is the final testimony of Gabriel Angelos Captain of the Blood Ravens third company, savior of Tartarus, bane of the Black legion, servant of the Emperor."

 

[Angthoron]

A laurel wreath, if you will, to my boundless generosity.

Ah, thanks.

"I'm no stranger to death,
On my home planet and beyond
Inquisition contact's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy (Cyrene)
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you all extinct

Never gonna spill my beans,
Never gonna tell you stuff
Live or die my sins'll know retribution
This will be my final oath,
Captain of the Blood Ravens
Savior of Tartarus, etc."

Astley-fied. Not sure why.

 

[Mrowak]

^ Who said that Good has to be always nice?

Oh, and Angelos is a good example of what I'm talking about here. IIRC, he was the one who condemned his own homeworld to exterminatus on suspicion of corruption and then carried the guilt of his actions. It's a good example of conflict between duty, beliefs and morality.

You realise how stupid, contrived and blown out of all proportions the entire "Spahs Mahrineeee" thing is, right? o_O

I find Warhammer 40,000 pretty chilidish adolescent exactly for this reason.

 

[Shannow]

Also my guess is 3-3.1 Mil. Which is just crazy. But there seems to be a LOT of old IE fans apparently.

I don't think 3,2-3,5m is out of the question, if the screenshot is impressive enough, it probably can get lot of new pledges, same with great stretch goals which I hope will be well done.

Yeah, they are going to need to whip out something to drive the KS. What exactly they could pull out I have no idea. Maybe the Justin Sweet portraits? Which is yet another hot topic there (11 pages). I personally LOVE his art he did in IWD II. But they will need something more than that.

So, any other multi-thread topics on the Obsidian forum that didn't make it into the stretch goals?
Just post them here. Like Justin Sweet, I'm sure they'll find their way onto OE's roadmap if possible.

 

[Grunker]

^ Who said that Good has to be always nice?

Oh, and Angelos is a good example of what I'm talking about here. IIRC, he was the one who condemned his own homeworld to exterminatus on suspicion of corruption and then carried the guilt of his actions. It's a good example of conflict between duty, beliefs and morality.

You realise how stupid, contrived and blown out of all proportions the entire "Spahs Mahrineeee" thing is, right? o_O

I find Warhammer 40,000 pretty chilidish adolescent exactly for this reason.

40k fags gonna 40k fag

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

You realise how stupid, contrived and blown out of all proportions the entire "Spahs Mahrineeee" thing is, right? o_O

I find Warhammer 40,000 pretty chilidish adolescent exactly for this reason.

I always thought Warhammer 40K was kind of tongue in cheek on this front. Taking everything up to 11, but straddling the line between seriousness and parody. Like GWAR in game form. I mean when the good guys are Space Nazis and the bad guys are Satanic Space Nazis, you kind of assume they're joking just a little bit (not to mention Chaos Spess Mahreens actually look like GWAR extras).

Plus the Orks are legitimately hilarious - the fact that their powers are actually fueled by idiocy? Comic gold. Red actually makes it go faster!

 

[Commissar Draco]

Would not use word fag Grunker if I was Star Star Wars fan:

But Apples and Oranges, although I would love to hear what finds deep and mature.

 

[Grunker]

1) I hate Jar Jar Binks (shit I hate everything about the prequels almost)

2) I would never start a morality debate on account of fucking Star Wars

3) What was your point again?

 

[villain of the story]

Has multiclassing been confirmed?

Either way too many classes makes me a bit vary, that every character of the same class will be too alike when you add too many different classes.

Tim Cain confirmed that they will NOT be doing multiclassing.

 

[Infinitron]

Has multiclassing been confirmed?

Either way too many classes makes me a bit vary, that every character of the same class will be too alike when you add too many different classes.

Tim Cain confirmed that they will NOT be doing multiclassing.

Source?

I only know that they haven't confirmed it, not that they've rejected it.