Game News Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #26: $4 Million Stretch Goal - Chris Avellone Will Play Arcanum

[Mrowak]

Mrowak, I actually share the concerns about how the Kickstarter has been executed, and my biggest concerns are also about scope management and just how much they know and have planned about the costs and logistics of delivering the ever-largening pool of physical goods (to tens of thousands of people) as well as stretch goals. That said, I have no idea how you go from "what I see in Kickstarter" to "I can see inside their offices and THEY HAVE NO CLUE MAN, NO CLUE". By 'I have no idea', I mean, 'you have no idea', too.

Hey, how about proving to me they have an idea with a little thing like this. This is the problem with all their promises - they throw a notion, and everyone rejoices forgetting that they don't know what exactly is promised.

For example: what does "12 level mega-dungeon" mean? For all we know it can be 4-6 rooms on each level filled with trash-mobs (typical NWN2 dungeon). But everyone's rejoicing because "wow, megadungeon - 12 levels!" Or two big cities (because "Baldur's Gate and Athkatla are big cities. We're going to have one big city in Project Eternity. Would you like two?"). As I have been proved by a very extatic Codexer here that they didn't necessarily mean anything by it - for all we know it may be Neverwiter from NWN2 OC all over again. Or Stamina/Health system - when I first heard about it I thought "wow, a system like in BaK" but many people shouted out "No! Not popamole regen!". You know what? Those people may be right - we don't know anything substantial about the project! It can be anything!

And why I think they have no clue? Because they have refused to provide any plan or vision statement whatsoever. Also by the fact that Fergus is already going "Well, I am not sure about this promise, I don't think it will work" in Kickstarter comments sections. By the fact that their promises don't mean anything on any level. Also by the lack of the stretch goal at the end of campaign. And lastly by each and every game Obsidian developed as a studio had problems that directly stem from poor planning.

 

[Spectacle]

What do you expect them to say then? "We plan to make a good game, not a bad one, don't worry". It's not a list of features that makes a game good, it is how they are executed.

 

[Mrowak]

Mrowak, the developer-publisher relationship has developed into something where developers come and pitch some vague things, take out some things the publishers don't like - add some new ones, etcetera. It's pretty clear to me (at the very least it is what kickstarter is telling me) that developers don't know how to design with a solid goal in mind, because they've never had to.

I think that you may be right. However, it's all the more reasons to prepare your for a foundraising campaign better, if you don't have a publisher that will set you goals and expect results in the given timeline. The amount of content they (vaguely) promised to prepare is humongous: new engine, new world, new art assets, new combat system, great story, many solutions outside of combat, 2 big cities, stronghold, 11 classes - all of these will have to work seamlessly together and be in place (because otherwise you'd get broken gameplay). And the deadline is not from now - 18 months.

They really cannot allow themselves to work above any delays, because their budget is going to be static. There won't be situation like if they run out of money, the publisher can decide "ok, you are doing well enough, you give results so I can spare another $700 000 so you can work for extra 4 months - but it'd better be ready by then *or else*...!". Here, when they run out of money they run out of money. So what then? Another Kickstarter campaign? Or unfinished, unoptimised product, with many separately excelent but poorly integrated together elements?

 

[Mrowak]

What do you expect them to say then? "We plan to make a good game, not a bad one, don't worry". It's not a list of features that makes a game good, it is how they are executed.

How about showing a plan how they are going to be executed?

Edit: Oh forget this - I got worked up. I am reiterating same old song all over again. Now that Kickstarter is over it's pointless. We are going to just wait and see. Besides, I've got shittones of work to do today.

 

[Spectacle]

What do you expect them to say then? "We plan to make a good game, not a bad one, don't worry". It's not a list of features that makes a game good, it is how they are executed.

How about showing a plan how they are going to be executed?

Because it is outside the scope of a plan, execution is an iterative process that depends on the skill and experience of the designers and programmers.

 

[Cynic]

Mrowak is just voicing the same kinds of concerns I was a while back. Bro, don't waste your time. They got 4 million dollarus and they have a chance to finally prove that they are the ONE TRUE RPG GOD who will guide us through the darkness of publisher hell into a world of inclining splendor.

This is it. This is their final test, their moment to show that they have the talent and the skill to make something truly great. No excuses this time, no wah wah the big bad publisher made us do it excuses.

Yeah, they promised big. They threw around a lot of ideas and concepts before thinking them through, and they WILL cop shit for going back on things later. BUT it will all be fine, IF THEY DELIVER A GREAT FUCKING GAME.

Am I skeptical? Fuck yes I am. But the draw here for me now is really just waiting to see if they can pull it off or not. If they fail, Codex may implode in on itself in a blackhole of rage fueled by feelings of MCA lust betrayal, and that will be fucking entertaining. If they succeed, then Codex will rage about the combat being RTwP and it will be as it always was.

Just time to sit back and enjoy the show. Get your popcorn and blunts ready. ITZ COMING.

 

[Black]

.

Baker's remorse already?
No worries, it's not like "tactical and deep" rtwp was a dead give away "WE DON KNOW WHAT WER DOIN"

 

[Mrowak]

What do you expect them to say then? "We plan to make a good game, not a bad one, don't worry". It's not a list of features that makes a game good, it is how they are executed.

How about showing a plan how they are going to be executed?

Because it is outside the scope of a plan, execution is an iterative process that depends on the skill and experience of the designers and programmers.

Perhaps I was not clear. Execution - the micro scale - is indeed a creative process. However the macro scale - who is responsible for what at any given stage of development is managerial one. I wanted them to have ready concept of the gameworld and present me with it like again in here as well as that they truly know how much time they are willing to devote for implementing such and such feature. In other words we should have been given list of features they are sure theat appear in the project (because they have a plan.)

Would I feel upset if over development process Tim had "Eureka!" moment and said "Guys, I know how to improve the combat system!" explained his idea and the team would then proceed to implementing it in the "combat stage" of development? No! Because it is a part of creative process. But would I be upset if all teams had such "Eureka" moments and started to work on them regardless of the stage because the end result would be a mess you would have to put together using loads of duct-tape - which is pretty characteristic of every Obsidian game so far.

Edit: I am out for today, for realz.

 

[4too]

Micro Managing MCA




Damn, Pixel Hunt! ™ and 'Teh Hawd Reeding!' ™ must have been saved for the Ol'd S-Kool ™ $4.599… million stretch goal.

Seriously, MCA is some kind of wizard. … Only explanation? Time Wizard.

IMHO, if …IF ... and when MCA inc.* (*incorporeal) could game Arcanum maybe as:

(1) a charismatic gunslinger (… need a big posse until tech matches magic.)

(2) with Drog patch (… if is not an act of self flagellation / redemption.)

(3) with drug patch (… some William Gibson "consensual hallucination" inducing central nervous system hyper-space.)

or, is 6 to 10 beers by 3 a.m. enough?


Codex Poll Time?

(1) character build

(2) patch regime, orthodox vanilla or best blend of heroic mod's.

(3) player aides / mood altering, time and space defying, 'cultural' stimulation …




4too

 

[kaizoku]

I'm not expecting anything less than UStream LP sessions with MCA.

If they fail, Codex may implode in on itself in a blackhole of rage fueled by feelings of MCA lust betrayal, and that will be fucking entertaining. If they succeed, then Codex will rage about the combat being RTwP and it will be as it always was.

Just time to sit back and enjoy the show. Get your popcorn and blunts ready. ITZ COMING.

If they fail they'll have to move into facebook games.
The fanbase would no longer support them, and the negative PR would be huge.
And since their AAA business is not exactly stellar (even though DS3 shows a turning point due to its robustness)... they would probably have to shift their target segment.

 

[villain of the story]

Mrowak, the developer-publisher relationship has developed into something where developers come and pitch some vague things, take out some things the publishers don't like - add some new ones, etcetera. It's pretty clear to me (at the very least it is what kickstarter is telling me) that developers don't know how to design with a solid goal in mind, because they've never had to.

I think that you may be right. However, it's all the more reasons to prepare your for a foundraising campaign better, if you don't have a publisher that will set you goals and expect results in the given timeline. The amount of content they (vaguely) promised to prepare is humongous: new engine, new world, new art assets, new combat system, great story, many solutions outside of combat, 2 big cities, stronghold, 11 classes - all of these will have to work seamlessly together and be in place (because otherwise you'd get broken gameplay). And the deadline is not from now - 18 months.

They really cannot allow themselves to work above any delays, because their budget is going to be static. There won't be situation like if they run out of money, the publisher can decide "ok, you are doing well enough, you give results so I can spare another $700 000 so you can work for extra 4 months - but it'd better be ready by then *or else*...!". Here, when they run out of money they run out of money. So what then? Another Kickstarter campaign? Or unfinished, unoptimised product, with many separately excelent but poorly integrated together elements?

Are you aware that Fallout and Baldur's Gate had cost roughly $3M each, at a time when just about everything was far more expensive and that's including the astronomical expenses on CGI and marketing? With the current tools and goals (no CGI, no marketing campaign of similar scope, minimal VA, lack of publisher overseeing and the cost of assorted personnel), the $4M now must be like at least $6M then, possibly more.

 

[Mrowak]

Mrowak, the developer-publisher relationship has developed into something where developers come and pitch some vague things, take out some things the publishers don't like - add some new ones, etcetera. It's pretty clear to me (at the very least it is what kickstarter is telling me) that developers don't know how to design with a solid goal in mind, because they've never had to.

I think that you may be right. However, it's all the more reasons to prepare your for a foundraising campaign better, if you don't have a publisher that will set you goals and expect results in the given timeline. The amount of content they (vaguely) promised to prepare is humongous: new engine, new world, new art assets, new combat system, great story, many solutions outside of combat, 2 big cities, stronghold, 11 classes - all of these will have to work seamlessly together and be in place (because otherwise you'd get broken gameplay). And the deadline is not from now - 18 months.

They really cannot allow themselves to work above any delays, because their budget is going to be static. There won't be situation like if they run out of money, the publisher can decide "ok, you are doing well enough, you give results so I can spare another $700 000 so you can work for extra 4 months - but it'd better be ready by then *or else*...!". Here, when they run out of money they run out of money. So what then? Another Kickstarter campaign? Or unfinished, unoptimised product, with many separately excelent but poorly integrated together elements?

Are you aware that Fallout and Baldur's Gate had cost roughly $3M each, at a time when just about everything was far more expensive and that's including the astronomical expenses on CGI and marketing? With the current tools and goals (no CGI, no marketing campaign of similar scope, minimal VA, lack of publisher overseeing and the cost of assorted personnel), the $4M now must be like at least $6M then, possibly more.

I hope you are right then. BTW, I see you saw the light and joined us "Race Traitors" in our noble quest.

 

[villain of the story]

Not really. oldmanpaco donated 10 dorrars in my name. Apparently, you can do that.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Not really. oldmanpaco donated 10 dorrars in my name. Apparently, you can do that.

That's not true. vots made his own donation but had DU put that I somehow donated in his name. I don't know why but vots is a bit weird sometimes.

 

[villain of the story]

Wait, what? WTF? I haven't even donated, why do I have the race traitor tag?

93. villain of the story (courtesy of oldmanpaco)

Very funny. I am not accepting this, please hoard the money towards server upgrades.

Out of curiosity, how much did you donate for me, oldmanpaco? There is a whole lot of people below my name.

It was only $10. But a good $10. If (when) this game sucks you will forever be labeled as one who helped bring it about.

Hey, oldmapnaco, would you donate for a Collector's Edition on Kickstarter for me? Then, if the game doesn't suck I'll give you the money. I decide the level of suckage.

In before FeelTheRads gets the Race Traitor tag.

All you need to do is make 600 posts in the various PE threads describing why everything is shit and everyone is an idiot. Better get going if you want to catch vots.

 

[kaizoku]

Why do you lie vots...


On another subject, one good thing with MCA playing Arcanum is that maybe, and just maybe, it will plant the seed for an "Arcanum 2" by Obsidian.

 

[Jaesun]

Why do you lie vots...


On another subject, one good thing with MCA playing Arcanum is that maybe, and just maybe, it will plant the seed for an "Arcanum 2" by Obsidian.

Would you really want an Arcanum 2 Published by Activision? I don't.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Why do you lie vots...

 

[General Maxson]

MCA must be forced to play Arcanum. Maybe get some good ideas?

Possible non popamole Arcanum 2?



I just hope I won't die in the next few years and that I would be capable of playing pc games. Or that the world won't end.

 

[kaizoku]

Why do you lie vots...


On another subject, one good thing with MCA playing Arcanum is that maybe, and just maybe, it will plant the seed for an "Arcanum 2" by Obsidian.

Would you really want an Arcanum 2 Published by Activision? I don't.

The quotes mean spiritual successor.

 

[Jaesun]

Possible non popamole Arcanum 2?

Um Activison owns the rights to Arcanum. Even if for whatever fucking reason Obsidian approached Activision to make another Arcanum, why would they? They now can make any kind of cRPG they want. With no limitations. An Arcanum 2 would be just more crap Publisher demands Action rpg Shit.

 

[BlackCanopus]

I don't care about Chris Avellone playing Arcanum, but I do care if he is going to learn from Arcanum, or if they are going to implement some of its innovative features in PE. And somehow I feel very optimistic about this. I suspect this is a wink, a clever but subtle nod to the audience that PE will have Arcanum's depth or some of its features, which is a great thing. Chris, if you are going to do as I suspect, rock on man.

 

[General Maxson]

Possible non popamole Arcanum 2?

Um Activison owns the rights to Arcanum. Even if for whatever fucking reason Obsidian approached Activision to make another Arcanum, why would they? They now can make any kind of cRPG they want. With no limitations. An Arcanum 2 would be just more crap Publisher demands Action rpg Shit.

Guess I'll have to wait and see their work. PE didn't impress me as something original and creative without limitations during the kickstarter...

 

[Brayko]

Why do you lie vots...


On another subject, one good thing with MCA playing Arcanum is that maybe, and just maybe, it will plant the seed for an "Arcanum 2" by Obsidian.

Would you really want an Arcanum 2 Published by Activision? I don't.

The quotes mean spiritual successor.

I was hoping for a spiritual successor to Arcanum in their Kickstarter but we get more high fantasy "Good for what it is" shit instead, which is why I didn't donate. I really wish someone would do a proper steampunk game.

 

[Jaesun]

PE didn't impress me as something original and creative without limitations during the kickstarter...

Oh yes. They definitely went the "safe" route choosing Fantasy setting. Though what they decide to do with that setting could be be pretty fucking cool. Or not. But this is Obsidian we are talking here. Look at the fucking crazy shit they pulled out of the boring Forgotten Realms Setting and whipped out with Mask of the Betrayer. But we will know in 2014.

But one thing I WISH they would do, is approach Bethesda and do a Fallout spin-off as it were... in their new Isometric PE engine. Imagine, Fallout, back in it's beautiful original perspective and turn-based. THAT would be pure fucking awesome. Even if it was under Bethesda's Publishing leash. Just don't go with that metacritic clause again Feargun!