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Incline Project Gorgon

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by Aenra, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Made a thread about this the previous year i think, but our resident World of Warcraft/Diablo III MMORPG moderator decided it was too incline to deserve its own thread back then :D
    (if you merge this one too, no, i won't make another one, i promise)

    Anyway, past a Steam greenlighting, a successful Kickstarter campaign and quite some overhauling and tweaking, they are some months shy of entering EA, so i thought i'd post this. If it's the first time you're hearing of this, think Asheron's Call meets Everquest I. The two main developers actually worked on said titles.

    - no horny, immature manchildren comparing their virtual dicks PvP
    - a-la AC skill increases and class concepts
    - a-la EQI grinding/sense of growth
    - many, many many good ideas such as:
    . Weapons and armour can be left in the ground for others to pick up and keep. They can also be placed in game-spawned chests. Emptied a chest you found? You can leave something of yours in it for another to find
    . Items one player sells to an NPC can then be bought by another player, from said same NPC
    . Puzzles and logic/math tests akin to the ones you'd find in Myst? Uru? online, or proper adventure games
    . Instruments and secondary/tertiary mechanics (am guessing 'soon to become' activities)
    . Transformations into various animal forms and the ability to play 'as' said animal indefinitely, with the proper benefits and consequences
    . Whole towns designed/about to in order to compliment said playstyles
    . (to be) Robust guild system
    . a-la EQ1 varied quests according to race, skillset, etc

    Obvious warning tags: Indie + Alpha. With all they entail.
    Posting a video of what it looks like now, so you can get a sense of how much it's progressed since:



    (trigger warning: you might want to mute it prior to watching it, lol)
     
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  2. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    6,132
    Last time I've seen that thread, I downloaded the game, but then didn't have the energy to actually play it. Now's perfect timing, a Sunday with nothing to do. Downloading it right now.
     
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  3. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Curious to know what you think of it. The more time goes by, the more i find me being the minority :)
    My main cause of concern is its lack of a ..theme.., if i could put it like that. A ton of things to do, but no solid story arc/lore to connect them altogether (or motivate you to go through the ropes). Admittedly, the quest system and the quests themselves are not yet fully implemented; which is why i say 'concern'. No clue how it will all work out. But as it stands, they need it to.
     
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  4. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Just going to leave this here, case anyone finds it of use;

    http://dmnthia.github.io/

    Full game DB (think WoWhead), although still in 'Beta'
     
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  5. Angthoron Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Angthoron
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    12,926
    Oh look it's this game again.

    I'll not merge it I guess. I won't, for you guys! I also watched the video! I did it for you guys! I couldn't quite reach a point I'd get excited about it, but I tried to. For you guys! <shrill female voice>
     
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  6. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Had you gone for 'throaty', you'd have given me a hard on

    /tattoos always a bonus
     
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  7. Alchemist Arcane

    Alchemist
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,428
    I Kickstarted this (the second one) and this reminds me I need to get back to checking it out. Just haven't had much gaming time lately, and was waiting for it to cook a little more.

    This game is one of the few that gives some hope for the MMO genre. I hope it all comes together - they certainly seem to be on the right track.
     
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  8. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    6,132
    Played it for 30 mins. I liked the intro, the atmosphere, the whole thing. I like that they don't tell you anything and you have to assemble the information by bits and pieces. I liked the craft system, or what I saw of it in that short amount of time. What I didn't like was controls. It's like these new MMOs like MO and now this one, they forgot how proper controls should feel. I find it hard to believe that nobody in their entire team is capable of just tweaking the controls till they feel fine. Nobody? It's weird...
     
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  9. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    You mind explaining that? I honestly don't get you.. responsiveness, hotkeying that is lacking, remapping, what do you mean? :S
     
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  10. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
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    No, just movement/camera controls I mean. I usually turn by holding down RMB and moving the mouse sideways. In this game, although you could change the camera speed for looking sideways with LMB held down, you can't change the speed of camera rotation through RMB being held down.
    There might've been some other things related to camera/movement too, but this one was the most annoying. It's like not being able to change mouse sensitivity in a first person shooter basically.
     
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  11. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Don't get offended, i got no clue how many MMOs you've played, or how many games altogether come to that;

    But you do know this is ..what..? Alpha? Pre-alpha? To my empirical knowledge, this is fine-tuning material.. to be fixed/added much later, along with support of smart mouses, multi-button mouses, etc.
    (i could name you """AAA""" [i wish] MMOs that did not add such "QoL" until after launch, because "priorities"; ESO being the most recent. To my knowledge, it still does not fully support non conventional/PS2 mouses)

    Either way, if that's the worse you could find, i'd say it's looking good :)

    edit: I just noticed how polite i am when i am drinking..goddam, lol..wonder if it means something..hmm..
     
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  12. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
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    Well, it's one way to see it. I just see it differently. This type of thing should be sorted at the prototyping stage, like Obsidian said something like when they start prototyping, they make a level with a moving cube and until it's super fun to play with just that cube and everything feels smooth, they don't move on to the next stage.

    It's something very basic and very easy to fix, and it's something that everyone will experience, it's the foundation of the game. Everyone will run and move the camera, it'll give the player the first impression of the game, so it must be polished.

    I'm not saying the game is bad because of it, it's just when basic things are "wrong", it raises red flags in my mind. It tells me they don't know that there is a problem, when it's so blatant. What else will they not know? Etc... It worries me, that's all.
     
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  13. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Good point really..:)
     
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  14. Zetor Arcane

    Zetor
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,702
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Honestly, I like that MMOs like Project Gorgon exist. It'll (probably) fail, but at least it tried something different with the heavy simulationist core and all the funky ideas that'd never fly in a mainstream game. More importantly, it's a game that's designed around a small (or at most, medium-sized) playerbase instead of being yet another "WOW killer", MOBA, or f2p survival sandbox with microtransactions. The fact that the dev team seems to essentially consist of a crazy oldschool Asheron's Call programmer and some friends is just a bonus.
     
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  15. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    All things are eventual? :)
    Might, at some point.. the fact that it received 373,9% of its original KS goal, had a greenlight before it and has managed to remain in active development for years and years prior to the above (read: they'd survived just fine without any external funding) speaks well enough for the future. Along with the fact that whatever player base it has, it not only managed to attract sans the hype campaign (nobody knew), but also to retain for all this time. You probably neglected to factor this in, but retainment's the hardest to achieve. Steam should also provide an additional small boost/exposure.

    You don't go about making 'old school' and expecting the numbers you'd get around 2000. They were well aware of that when they started. And frankly? Might sound presumptuous, but i don't think the old-fart brigade we want these numbers either. The prospect of a 'world' filled with teentards trying out 'old school' for the five full minutes they can last in it doesn't really excite me anymore.. :)
     
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  16. belowmecoldhands Savant

    belowmecoldhands
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    795
    Say a mainstream MMO in 2000 has X players and a MMO in 2016 wants to match it. One significant roadblock is the fact there're so many more games and MMO's now. We're all spread out far and wide. So ti's very hard for an MMO to come out and grab us away from our loves. One thing I think oftne overlooked is just how entrenched people can be with something they've played for years. It takes a LOT to pull them away. The result is MMO's mainstream themselves slightly to compensate.

    What am I saying? I'm saying in a world with far less options a niche MMO should be able to match mainstream numbers from 15 or 20 years ago. It's only because there's so mcuh more available they won't. And you know some niche gamers will even play OLD MMO's. Neocron is a great example. Or even Asheron's Call. Or DaoC. Or EQ. Or UO. And they can do it for FREE. While some of these are questionable because they're server emulated, odds are not that they'll ever be shutdown. Why? Because it's so many more years now and the companies behind the games have moved on. 10 years ago they may have threatened. UO and EQ are the best examples. While it was not explicitly legal for the emulated servers to exist, the companies chose not to close them down for years and years. And now the new owners of EQ have publicly green lighted project1999, only leaving the client itself in questionable territory. Anyway, my point is there're too many options nowadays to do it like it's 1999.

    I play Wurm ONline and it's probably one of the most niche MMO's right now. Many of its features remind me of EQ. When I first started in 12', it was like EQ blended with UO wrapped nicely with an epic 3d facelift. I was in heaven.

    I too am glad Gorgon exists. Therer'e many other MMO's coming out. It's a great time to live for MMO enthusiasts.
     
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  17. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    I always state the good and the bad, soo.. :)

    Bit of a drama lately, which you'll tell me is the bread and butter of any MMO community, so what? Sure.. except there was an 'official' response to it this time, and one i'd never have wished for. What's the big deal? Potentially nothing, but.. you read between the lines ^^
    Pasting Citan's (lead dev) post in full:

    Show Spoiler
    "Hey guys. This week's post isn't quite the usual kind, and definitely not something you'd hear a large company say, but it's something that's important to the game. (I kinda want to do this sort of thing as a podcast, but I can never get the audio quality to come out reasonably well. So here's a wall of text instead.)

    First, let's talk about why novelty in games is rare and valuable.

    Novelty

    I like to hear people say things like "I haven't played a game like this before!" or "I haven't had this much fun since <insert decades-old-game here>". The latter sounds like nostalgia, but it isn't. It's newness. Novelty.

    I've always avoided calling this game a "throwback game" or a "retro game", because retro-homage games are boring. And most of those old games still exist, so if I want to play EQ1, I already have several options.

    But when thinking back on those old MMOs, they seem like such wild and weird places. Why? It's because we didn't know what we were doing, how to do it, or even what the goal was. We had to figure it all out from scratch. Tons of surprises. "It's getting dark in the newbie zone... wait, it's too dark. It's getting DARKER... it's pitch black ... I literally can't see anything! Who thought this was a good game design?! Oh god there's a glowing beetle coming right for me..."

    Those old games were raw, and weird, and unashamed. A big part of my love of Asheron's Call was its mind-bogglingly weird world and game mechanics. I mean, the game's backstory is that giant cockroaches destroyed the most advanced magical civilization in the universe. And the game's mechanics... just weird. That moment when you realize you can cast a spell that makes your spellcasting better so that you can cast another spell that makes your spellcasting even better so you can cast yet another spell... in terms of fun repeatable game mechanics that's ridiculous. Absurd. But when you discover it, that's a beautiful moment of realization.

    Now, I have never set out to be intentionally weird or different from other games. Seriously, I never think that way. Instead, I have a long list of stuff I've always wanted to see in an MMO, and ideas I've always thought might be fun. And the resulting game is starting to seem pretty novel.

    Novelty isn't everything. It's not what keeps people playing for years and years. If those old games weren't FUN as well as novel, they'd be long gone. Novelty is only one variable. But even so, Project: Gorgon has ended up with a lot of novelty, and it's valuable.

    But novelty has a very high price in terms of game development.

    Let's Talk About Iterations

    If game designers could pull fun new game designs out of a hat, every game would be novel. But most designs don't turn out to be fun, at least at first. A lot of this game's new ideas have been stupid and terrible and needed to be revised. Replaced. Iterated again and again. Many are still being iterated on.

    This is not a problem that a modern MMO usually has! Most MMOs have a blueprint to work from. But I have no map of how the game is "supposed" to play. I have no highway to take me there. I have to pave this trail, with your help, all the way to the destination... wherever that is. The road tends to be very tricky to find, too, because overcorrection will make things worse.

    For example, let's talk about one of the issues I'm iterating on: "one-button builds". This is a trend in the game to choose tons of equipment mods for the same ability, so that you can kill monsters with a single ability, ignoring your other powers. I think we can all agree that it's not a very exciting game design if the best way to play is "have 20 gear mods for the same ability, press a button, laugh and loot". That design just can't be the way the final game works. But fixing it will take a lot of iterations, because I don't want to screw up all kinds of other things just to fix this problem. So I've taken some steps toward rectifying that situation in each of the past few updates, and in the next update -- and in the updates after it, too, most likely.

    For the upcoming update, all I did was change one small formula that was dumb, and it's had a ripple effect throughout all the gear stats. The old formula weighted the reset-time of abilities too much. So an ability with a 30 second cooldown had gear that was VASTLY better than an ability with a 5 second cooldown. Obviously lots of other things play into it too, like Power cost and utility role, but reset time ended up really defining a lot of the equipment's stats.

    In the next update, abilities with fast resets have significantly boosted equipment mods, and slow-reset abilities have their equipment nerfed. Did I do a good enough job? We'll see in a month or two. If the reset-time ends up under-valued, we'll see players dropping their slow-reset abilities and gravitating toward using just their best 5-second ability -- something we've seen happen before in in older iterations of the game. If reset time is still over-valued, players will stick to what they have now, and will perceive the nerfs as "pointless", since players' behavior didn't change. If I got it right, we'll see players starting to spread their gear mods out some, but WITHOUT entirely abandoning slow-reset abilities. It will take a while to see how things settle out, and then I'll iterate some more.

    Even if I get this one part right, there's lots of other parts that need changing too. This little change might cause people to make "three-button builds" or even "four-button builds", which is an improvement. But my lofty goal is for max-level players to have 12-button builds, using gear for all (or at least most) of their abilities. That's a long way from here, with many systemic changes to come. But it's an entirely achievable goal, if you can stick with me through the changes.

    Enthusiasm

    How can one person make an MMO? Well, there's a lot of answers to that question. One secret is knowing the critical parts of the content pipeline that I had to get right before I started. (This is what kills so many technically competent MMO teams: they make an engine but then they can't add content fast enough.) Another reason is that I've been willing to cut huge features (like, say, PvP). Having already worked on several MMOs before doesn't hurt either.

    But I'm still just one person, doing most of the day-to-day coding and content. And if I just work at normal speeds, it's not enough. MMOs are big games. To make it happen, my secret weapon is enthusiasm. Being enthusiastic makes me faster. A LOT faster.

    As an example of what enthusiasm can do, I implemented all of Ice Magic in a day and a half because I was excited about it. I designed and implemented all the abilities, gear, particles, effects, pets, advancement, everything. If I wasn't enthusiastic, that task would have taken a week or more.

    Enthusiasm is so important that managing it has become a big part of my job. And I try not to thwart my enthusiasm whenever it shows up -- I revise my schedule instead. I can tell that at some point in the near future, my enthusiasm for the Dagger skill will push me to implement it very quickly. And I will drop whatever I'm doing to implement it. Not because the game needs the dagger skill right now (it definitely doesn't), but because doing it with enthusiasm will make it so much faster that I can't afford to lose the opportunity.

    I've spent years now honing my enthusiasm, learning to guide it and drive it so that I can be fast, fast, fast. So my enthusiasm is a resource -- an unconventional one, but a crucial one.

    Protecting Enthusiasm

    After the last update, I lost my enthusiasm. Negativity, lots of bitching about nerfs, people exploiting a stupid bug -- it just makes me want to go do something else. I still put in a good 10 hours of work every day anyway ("suck it up and get to work", I tell myself), but the results are nothing special. Without enthusiasm, my ten hours are no more productive than anybody else's 10 hours. And as you probably know, MMOs require hundreds of thousands of "regular" hours of work.

    Does a post on the forums have the power to disrupt my enthusiasm that much? No, a few comments definitely don't. But a long train of negativity can. And I can't just will my enthusiasm back instantly. You can't demand your muse show up for work. I have to just keep working and wait for it to return.

    That's why I'm not personally dealing with the bans or the appeals or the other fallout of that bug, except in a vaguely supervisory role: it's too disruptive to think about it.

    It's also why I responded as quickly as I could to the forum shouting about evasion. There's a funny thing about the evasion update: there's a bug in it. I didn't notice it until I went to look at the logs, but the boss monsters don't have higher evasion than solo monsters right now. Which means the top evasion in the game is 6%, for level 60 monsters. Nothing has higher evasion, despite what my patch notes say.

    A 6% evasion is not that high. Certainly not high enough to quit over. But a bunch of the feedback wasn't reacting to the gameplay, it was just reacting to the concept of evasion. I even saw signs of forum brigading (where a group of players collaborate to bitch about the same topic).

    Forum brigading isn't always bad. Sometimes it's a good thing, bringing to my attention something that I just hadn't given a lot of priority or thought to. But the response to evasion was pretty much the opposite of useful. A lot of people made VERY exaggerated claims, on the forums and via in-game feedback, about how much they were being evaded. (I do have logs...) Some people claimed that I had ruined the game, as if this were the first experiment I've ever run. This experiment is actually pretty tame!

    Player discontent feeds on itself very quickly, and I know most of the feedback on evasion was sincere -- even if some of the unhappiness wasn't even really about evasion, but about unhappiness with the way the game is going. It was a reflection of community unhappiness.

    But the immediate impact of that feedback was to slow me down, because I lost my enthusiasm. I stopped thinking about how cool the new city of Rahu could be, and started daydreaming about playing some XCom 2 when I finally got to take a break. I stopped giving a shit, for a little while.

    Now I should back up here: the upcoming changes I've announced about Evasion aren't fake, or overcompensating, or appeasement, or anything like that. I decided right along with you that universal evasion wasn't a fun mechanic. So the next update has a lot of changes there. But I did announce this very quickly, before I even got most players' feedback on it, because I needed to quell the shoutfest.

    I am only now starting to get my enthusiasm back, and things are starting to happen quickly again. But there will be more nerfs in a week, and I can't afford to lose enthusiasm again.

    How You Can Help

    We've all seen forums become toxic. This recent event shows a glimpse of how that can easily happen. To some extent, it's up to me and my team to manage the toxicity, but we can't do it alone.

    And if the forums get negative, I have to protect my enthusiasm even if it means disengaging with the community. But I don't want to do that. In fact I want the opposite: the forum can EASILY help bolster my enthusiasm. It's done it before many times. So I need your help making that happen.

    First rule of thumb: before you complain, tell me something that you find fun. I can't tell if you're having fun just by looking at your posts. When I read a really angry diatribe, I ask myself, "why the hell are they even logging in?" Sometimes the answer is "I dunno, I fucking QUIT!" but most of the time, players are actually enjoying the game, but are just frustrated by something. I need to know what frustrates you, but I also need to know what's fun. (This also helps prevent me from accidentally removing the things you really enjoy, which has happened plenty of times in the past.)

    Second, be polite. I'm just one person. The whole TEAM is just a couple of people. We are not sitting on piles of money here, laughing at your posts with gleeful abandon. We are working very hard out of love for the game. Please don't let your frustration keep you from seeing that bigger picture.

    I'm not saying to censor yourself. I know that it's normal for you to want to complain about things more than compliment things. I'm just asking you to fight that natural inclination a bit. Take a few moments and think about why the hell you're playing this game at all. Let me see that.

    Lastly, if you have an urge to express your enjoyment in other ways, I love to see it. Monger's "two bovines that need each other" post was great. Betanotus often posts screenshots that show players having fun, or just ridiculous things happening in-game. Actually there's lots of enthusiasm in here already! I'm just asking you to keep it up.

    Thank you all for your enthusiasm so far. I'll have a new update in a week or so -- it's big, with new mechanics, some brand new skills and game ideas to try out, lots of new content, new areas, and many bug fixes. Stick around!
    "

    Original thread here: http://projectgorgon.com/forum/general-gorgon-discussion/1690-citan-s-update-enthusiasm

    TLDR; Am i really so cynical? Am i really wrong to start worrying when i see responses such as this one from people (possibly?) older than me? From people who -unlike me- are 'professionals'? What happened to 'this is my vision. My way.' The End?

    Where's Frankie. Come on Frank, tell them how baby..
     
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  18. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    8,936
    I'm not sure where he's trying to go with a 12-button build idea. 12 buttons is simply untenable, exceeding the number of fingers a person has on his hand to operate them. He would have to take his hands off the mouse to do that. It should tell you something that even real fighter jets, extremely complicated pieces of equipment with a ridiculously large number of buttons, don't have 12 buttons the pilot is expected to operate in combat.
     
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  19. I have a Let's Play series of this game on my YouTube channel. It's of a previous build, but it shows off some of the general ideas and concepts you will find in the game.

    In my opinion, this game is a breath of fresh air for MMORPGs, with a focus on the RPG part of that.

    I love the exploration of not only the map, but exploration of skills as well. You can find so many skills by simply experimenting, doing favors for people and generally exploring the game mechanics.

    Really great stuff. Doesn't hurt that it is somewhat reminiscent of Asheron's Call, either. :)
     
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  20. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    You know, i just re-downloaded PG to have another look.. and i must admit you are correct. Had no idea how fucking atrocious movement/responsiveness still* is. With my gaming mouse, it is literally impossible to play this; like at all. Sad panda.

    [* The funny thing is that i've had this same issue over a year ago.. and it's still 'there'! I just did not make the connection when you posted the above; was somehow under the impression it had been fixed. My bad]

    edit: made a thread here in case you or anyone wants to chip in: http://projectgorgon.com/forum/support/1861-mouse-sensitivity#13053
     
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  21. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Faux Update!!!
    Will repost parts of his latest game update, as they deal with issues that are (finally ffs) more important than flower arrangement skills... yes, lol, you heard that right.. :S
    Will also state how moronic it is (in my mind) leaving so central pieces of information out for months/years rather than stating them in a timely manner; lacking any explanation such as the one i'm about to paste in, most would think the devs' got no clue about what's more important, what's hurting the game, what needs to be prioritised and why. Hardly confidence-inspiring. Which frankly is something the lead guy IS guilty of, he's totally in his own little cloud. More than is good for him.
    But anyway:

    "Hi guys, it's been a while since my last news post, so I wanted to give you some insight into what I've been working on. The next update is not going to happen this weekend as I'd hoped -- the new camera still needs more work (see below). So now I'm tentatively aiming for the weekend after this one, but it's a pretty big update, so no promises! Here's what's cooking:

    New camera: The current camera system has been replaced with all new code. This is a big task, and I'm still testing/debugging it, but I like the results a lot: it feels a lot smoother, doesn't pop out of dungeon walls, and avoids unnecessarily zooming in and out when people walk behind you.

    Another BTW - speaking of annoying bugs, there's a lot of known GUI issues. But instead of trying to patch up the existing GUI, we've contracted another engineer to work on a complete replacement using the new GUI system from Unity 5. (The existing GUI was made for Unity 3 and is extremely hard to work with.) That rewrite has been going on for a while now, and is still a ways away from going live -- I don't have a definite timeline, but at least a few months away. Rewriting the entire GUI is a huge task! But it's looking good, and it will give you a lot more freedom to move GUI elements around, as well as resize fonts, tweak chat colors, and other often-requested features"


    You can read the whole bit here:
    http://projectgorgon.com/forum/general-gorgon-discussion/2401-citan-s-notes-5-6?limitstart=0
     
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  22. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    :necro:

    There's another campaign, this time on Indiegogo. So assuming you give a fuck:
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/project-gorgon-pc-mmo#/

    In the interest of fairness, i do need to say that i won't be a part of this one. I would have contributed up to a few days ago to be honest.. before i'd read this:
    "I've been working on a new forum for Project: Gorgon for quite some time ... trophys for forum participation, a point system for forum participation, forum store that allows you to redeem forum points for in-game and forum items, and much more!"

    Ingame store incoming.. worse, forum points converted into store points converted into game items incoming..
    Too old, too jaded, too cynical. Have a fixed fee or fuck off entirely. This nickel and diming trend of the past decade makes me sick. Making "dailies" out of proper forum usage makes me doubly sick. I did ask for clarifications (give them a chance first, no matter what) but have received none. So..
    So long. When they launch i might have another look. Without paying, that must be earned :)

    (three MMOs, out of all of them out there, over a period of a decade! Only three i've had a marginal interest in/hope for; three; jarring isn't it.. and not a one, not fucking one having shaped up as i'd hoped. Fuck me Freddy)
     
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  23. Helton Arcane

    Helton
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,670
    Location:
    Starbase Delta
    Your concerns are well justified, of course. But it is possible that this is in line with the design philosophy. Gorgon rewards you for playing the game however you choose, at least in theory. The designers have expressed desire before for people to be able to write in-game novels and gain writer skill and notoriety based on how often it is read. Or to be journalists and be rewarded accordingly.

    Much of that activity, though, would manifest outside of the game. This is a logical way of trying to capture it. Someone writing a game-guide is spending their time with the game but receiving no in-game benefit. If their guide is widely used they have created in-game value but receive nothing in-game to show for it. Incorporating the forums allows some of this effort to be reflected in-game.
     
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  24. Klarion Arcane

    Klarion
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,864,550
    Location:
    Stonekeep
    Hey buddy, 2002. called, it want's it's graphics back.
     
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  25. Aenra Guest

    Aenra
    Helton
    You're not broaching a novel subject to me.. be it in concept or practice, i've come across it. And my answer remains the same and twofold :)
    - Games are about escapism. Or should be. If you need meta rewards for your ingame rewards (one assumes you spend your day writing a Gorgon novel because so you desire/such is the gameplay you're interested in), you're doing it wrong. That dev after dev encourages you to do it wrong, be it from force of habbit (other mammals did it before us, ergo so will we) or other reasons does not alter that.
    - Formulating is never what theorising meant it to be. Hence my saying "making dailies" of x or y a practice; you played any recent MMOs, you know what i mean; and have probably witnessed first-hand how said practice(s) are never a boon.

    Of course, on an even broader level, you could say their game, their rules. Fair. You could also state that their MMO, their pricing model. Again fair. Am only highlighting my view of it and mind you, --in light-- of what was until recently believed: A B2P game. Barring the backers' free entry, once it launched on Steam you'd need buy a game unit prior to being able to log in. Once purchased, you'd be looking at no other costs except an optional monthly sub of about 5 bucks that would have minimal benefits (bit more inventory space and so on). That's radically different from RMTing and ingame stores.

    Klarion when you grow up you will come to find that barriers, figurative or literal, work both ways. And that sometimes in life they're the preferred status quo even by those that they're meant to keep contained or isolated. Until such time as the rest of us deem you grown up however, perhaps you should go back to playing with your marbles.
     
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