Development Info Putting the science back in Wasteland 2's science fiction

[Vault Dweller]

Bulllshit, the argument has never been about "realism". I've said that several times in this thread and the other one. Have you been completely ignoring my posts and Brother None's?

Inspiration, not realism. Plausibility, not realism. Detail, not realism. Repeat these things three times before breakfast.

I did see your post saying that on page 2 of the original discussion, but I was not aware that your position constituted the entire debate. Other people (and I don't mean myself) had different opinions. Shocking, I know.

Edit: Anyway, seeing that it's getting harder to discuss such sensitive concepts as WL2 without people immediately suspecting ulterior motives or just getting very, very upset, I will get back to work and leave you girls alone.

 

[St. Toxic]

Yes, walk away in defeat. Take my advice the next time this happens.

 

[almondblight]

Bulllshit, the argument has never been about "realism". I've said that several times in this thread and the other one. Have you been completely ignoring my posts and Brother None's?

Inspiration, not realism. Plausibility, not realism. Detail, not realism. Repeat these things three times before breakfast.

Yeah man, "what Infinitron hopes this will be" is not the same as "how they are presented."

"The goal of our consultancy is to work together with game developers at any point in the development process in order to deliver our clients the elements necessary to drive the creative process using sound science."

"But what does this mean to the player? Expect creatures that are a natural byproduct of their environment, biological and chemical warfare that makes sense and the medical know-how to survive with the scarcest of resources."

Fargo:
"Thwacke helps with overall logic and science in parts. "
The "plausibility" and "detail" you're talking about is incorporating certain elements from science into the game (that's Thwacke!'s whole schtick - that's why this thread is called "putting science back in Wasteland 2's science fiction). If it pisses you off that people are calling it "realism" instead of "plausible" or whatever, that's an issue of semantics, we're talking about the same damn thing. The issue still is that there's no reason to go looking for specifically for a scientist for this.

 

[almondblight]

Actually, my argument is that science training, like any other field, can have its benefits. As in, hey, maybe if you intend to do a game that revolves heavily around religion then it could be helpful to ask somebody with religious training instead of googling random concepts.

Yeah. They decided that they're own research wasn't enough to flesh out the idea of souls in Project Eternity, so they decided to bring in a priest as a consultant.

 

[Infinitron]

You don't even know what you don't know.

 

[FeelTheRads]

CANT COMPREHEND ANYTHING MORE THAN THE MOST BASIC CONCEPTS

How about for example, a religiously trained person knowing some interesting happening related to religion that could be used as a base for a quest?

Sure, after you find out what it's based on you can google about it and say "hey, I could have made a quest about that too". Problem is, you didn't know about it beforehand.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Science? Wasteland rape in progress.

 

[almondblight]

How about for example, a religiously trained person knowing some interesting happening related to religion that could be used as a base for a quest?

I'm agreeing with you man, I'm saying that they should bring in a priest (or a rabbi, imam, etc.) as a consultant. It would help the game, no?

 

[Gragt]

Yes, you'd learn that crucifix don't work on Jewish vampires.

 

[Ringhausen]

I'm agreeing with you man, I'm saying that they should bring in a priest (or a rabbi, imam, etc.) as a consultant. It would help the game, no?

A priest is small time. Avellone should consult a holy man like the Dalai Lama or go on a pilgrimage to Mecca. Imagine the inspiration, the plausibility, the detail it could bring. And the PR!

 

[KidBoogie]

not sure if you kodex tr0lls understand how cool this could be.implementing science adds tons of tough moral choices, like "do you save the drowning kid before his lungs fill with water", making the experience even more intense by adding a time interval in which the choice must be made. Maybe if you hesitate before saving him and let his lungs fill half way with water, the villagers will be slightly pissed at you because their kid gets stuck with waterlung (or whatever illness i'm no scientist i dunno)

 

[MRY]

Metal Slug 3 had a cool giant-crab using tanks as shell:

I doubt that they needed a scientific OR military advisor for this...

This is one of the most devastating take-downs of the scientific method ever. One could also point out that Fallen Earth already has a post-apocalyptic, giant hermit-crab too: http://fallenearth.wikia.com/wiki/Companion:_Trashy_the_Hermit_Crab

Incidentally, though, in some ways this news story restored my faith, since it's pretty clear the "scientists" are just making shit up. I'm not even sure what they're talking about -- "absorb radiation in its shell." Are they talking about the initial blast? Why, if all the shells in the world got hit by radiation, would switching shells help matters? You'd just be trading one irradiated shell for another. If they're talking post-blast, it's not like the shells are going to help anything; the radiation you most have to worry about is in the soil, in the water, in bioaccumulation. I've never seen any suggestion, nor can I find anywhere on the Internet, any suggestion that hermit crabs would be more likely to survive nuclear war than any other arthropod.

Which is to say: god bless them! They're just making up some pseudo-science to justify something visually cool with interesting gameplay consequences. That's exactly what I wanted them to do in the first place!

 

[Brother None]

I did see your post saying that on page 2 of the original discussion, but I was not aware that your position constituted the entire debate. Other people (and I don't mean myself) had different opinions. Shocking, I know.

Well, them not bringing in scientific accuracy is not, or is no longer, opinion. We know for a fact that this is not what they do.

Edit: Anyway, seeing that it's getting harder to discuss such sensitive concepts as WL2 without people immediately suspecting ulterior motives or just getting very, very upset, I will get back to work and leave you girls alone.

Will you call us gay again for pre-ordering your game? That was...interesting. I suspect perhaps you spend too much time on the Codex.

BN said that mostly they consult on morality and how to put people in tough situations. You need scientists for that too now?

I didn't mean to imply that's the biggest part of their job, I said it's the example Fargo brought up when I had him on the phone and we covered this subject, as something he felt was more important than the creature suggestions. He wants designers to do research anyway and Thwacke is just another tool in the arsenal. The example here, which Thwacke has brought up themselves, is that they provided the studio with studies in morality and personal motivations, and this then helps inXile in molding in-game situations so choices become harder for the player. Pretty basic stuff, but it's all pretty basic stuff, fairly unimportant to Wasteland 2's development overall, that doesn't mean it's not still helpful in some way.

The issue still is that there's no reason to go looking for specifically for a scientist for this.

inXile didn't go looking for Thwacke, Thwacke pitched the offer and it's kind of a "why not?" situation for inXile. Because there was no real reason to turn down the offer. It's really that simple.

 

[Moribund]

Saying anyone who likes WL 2 is a sissy is not doing a lot to show how detached and logical your endless barbs about the project are Of course I happen to be a sissy but that's completely unrelated.

I'll say one thing for you, like cleve you have delievered endless entertainment with your endless butthurt and overweaning pride.

 

[Jasede]

Y'know, I'm withdrawing my support for this science bullshit and backing VD's bitching 100%. It says on their profile page that they're pretty much all fans of Fallout 3.

Are you for real?
Fuck 'em!

 

[almondblight]

inXile didn't go looking for Thwacke, Thwacke pitched the offer and it's kind of a "why not?" situation for inXile. Because there was no real reason to turn down the offer. It's really that simple.

Which is fine, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's also not what we've been discussing.

 

[General Maxson]

Y'know, I'm withdrawing my support for this science bullshit and backing VD's bitching 100%. It says on their profile page that they're pretty much all fans of Fallout 3.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Saying anyone who likes WL 2 is a sissy...

Is that what I said? There is a difference between liking a game and getting upset every time someone says something even remotely negative about it.

I'd say that at least 80% of people here (including me) are excited about WL2 and want to play it. Only a couple of people (including you) attack everyone who doesn't go full fanboy and type "butthurt, butthurt, butthurt" in response to arguments.

I'll say one thing for you, like cleve you have delievered endless entertainment with your endless butthurt and overweaning pride.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I did see your post saying that on page 2 of the original discussion, but I was not aware that your position constituted the entire debate. Other people (and I don't mean myself) had different opinions. Shocking, I know.

Well, them not bringing in scientific accuracy is not, or is no longer, opinion. We know for a fact that this is not what they do.

We know that now but not before, when the original discussion took place.

Edit: Anyway, seeing that it's getting harder to discuss such sensitive concepts as WL2 without people immediately suspecting ulterior motives or just getting very, very upset, I will get back to work and leave you girls alone.

Will you call us gay again for pre-ordering your game? That was...interesting. I suspect perhaps you spend too much time on the Codex.

I understand why the newfag is getting all upset, but you? Surely, you've heard far stronger words than 'ladies' on the Codex to know that no insult was meant, and surely you can understand the context and realize that it wasn't aimed at you, unless you consider yourself overly sensitive when it comes to WL2?

And what the fuck does it have to do with my game again? It really is getting silly.

BN said that mostly they consult on morality and how to put people in tough situations. You need scientists for that too now?

I didn't mean to imply that's the biggest part of their job....

Then I misread your post. My apologies.

 

[Runciter]

Hey guise, you all don't realise that mudcraps really are a deep and intricate domain of scientific study.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Who the fuck even works at a *science consulting firm*?

Aren't those all just rejects who can't contribute anything to science?

 

[almondblight]

Well, they're in Montreal, and doesn't the Quebec government give some largesse to any companies involved with games? It's actually not a bad idea on their side, since post-docs don't get paid much. I'd imagine any income from Thwacke! is just supplemental.

 

[Brother None]

I understand why the newfag is getting all upset, but you? Surely, you've heard far stronger words than 'ladies' on the Codex to know that no insult was meant, and surely you can understand the context and realize that it wasn't aimed at you, unless you consider yourself overly sensitive when it comes to WL2?

Heh, sorry, bit of a sidebar. I saw your 500 preorders post on ITS ('grats!) and saw the use of the word "fags" as pertaining to your own audience. Now I know it's just a forum post and I know you like to keep it loose, but reading that just made me go "man, dude spends too much time on the 'dex". Just a bit odd to see that in what is sort of an official communique, of sorts? Maybe I'm overthinking things.

 

[Moribund]

The people I'm upset at are very upset!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Heh, sorry, bit of a sidebar. I saw your 500 preorders post on ITS ('grats!) and saw the use of the word "fags" as pertaining to your own audience. Now I know it's just a forum post and I know you like to keep it loose, but reading that just made me go "man, dude spends too much time on the 'dex". Just a bit odd to see that in what is sort of an official communique, of sorts? Maybe I'm overthinking things.

Well, I've been posting here for almost 10 years. It does leave a mark.

The people I'm upset at are very upset!

Do you really think that it takes typing "why r u butthurt!!!" to upset someone here? You have much to learn, newfag.