Question on isometric graphics

[mfkndggrfll]

Old school isometry like BG and Fallout, not modern like PoE/Kingmaker my question is : how hard exactly would it be to create a game using these? Since the style seem to be abandoned. Is it because the engines used to craft them are too dated to work with modern tech? Or is it just too time consuming for devs to even bother?

 

[Humanophage]

What's so different about BG versus PoE isometry other than using sprites instead of 3D models for units?

 

[JarlFrank]

Actually, BG and Fallout have nothing in common in the way they were created. BG and the Infinity Engine games in general have more in common with PoE than with Fallout and Arcanum, or even Diablo 1 and 2.

Infinity Engine games, PoE, Torment: Numenera etc all have pre-rendered or hand-painted backgrounds, usually a combination of 3D render with some painted touch-ups. This means that every map needs to be created by artists, and when the final version is done, it's difficult to make changes to the map since they have to import it back to the 3D editing software and modify the map there, or put it in photoshop and have artist paint new stuff on it, etc.

Meanwhile, games like Fallout, Arcanum, Diablo etc use a much more convenient way of level design. The Shadowrun Returns games, too, btw, which is why they could make 3 games in a row in relatively quick succession.
In those games, they build the maps with a levele editor, where the maps are built from tiles which can be textured individually, objects are assets that can be freely placed in the level, etc. Just play around with the Shadowrun Returns level editor to see how it's done.

 

[luinthoron]

Eh, it has nothing to do with engines or being time consuming. The masses just see this as something old and want shitty 1st/3rd person view instead, so that's what the devs offer. Money speaks louder than playability.

 

[agris]

Actually, BG and Fallout have nothing in common in the way they were created. BG and the Infinity Engine games in general have more in common with PoE than with Fallout and Arcanum, or even Diablo 1 and 2.

Infinity Engine games, PoE, Torment: Numenera etc all have pre-rendered or hand-painted backgrounds, usually a combination of 3D render with some painted touch-ups. This means that every map needs to be created by artists, and when the final version is done, it's difficult to make changes to the map since they have to import it back to the 3D editing software and modify the map there, or put it in photoshop and have artist paint new stuff on it, etc.

Meanwhile, games like Fallout, Arcanum, Diablo etc use a much more convenient way of level design. The Shadowrun Returns games, too, btw, which is why they could make 3 games in a row in relatively quick succession.
In those games, they build the maps with a levele editor, where the maps are built from tiles which can be textured individually, objects are assets that can be freely placed in the level, etc. Just play around with the Shadowrun Returns level editor to see how it's done.

A couple additions to this: A lot of PoE's maps didn't receive a paint pass. I'm sure some of this forum's notes.txt keepers could tell you more, but it was one of the signs of pitched scope being outside production capabilities.

Regarding pre-rendered (IE games) vs tiles (Fallout, Shadowrun) - IE games did make use of the fact that rendered units such as houses, rooms, etc could be repeated. So you don't just see the same macro-structures or architecture on maps, but sometimes the same rooms within houses that are laid out differently. This makes the difference between tiled and pre-rendered a bit less definitive, as the pre-rendered graphics still had 'tiles' of existing artwork that were placed around maps. Also, tile-based games also had an art pass where they were cluttered and brought to life, similar in concept to the paint pass for the IE games.