REALLY hard RPGs

[Captain Shrek]

If you think of games in the western hemisphere industry today, you will find really very few games that come under the label of RPGs a real challenge. I believe that this trend is a response to the Sims, a highly popular game made by EA who realised that they could sell to the audience of that game RPGs since such games are equally vulnerable to BG2 syndrome of unnecessary romances and social interaction. Cue game like KOTOR, NWN, DA:O, DA2 etc. These games are characterized by low difficulty and lack of tactics so as to appease the casual audience of the new RPG genre where people are more interested in party banter and gay-elf porn than in the actual story or the combat.

Somehow this infection spread outside Bioware and we got easy peasy games like Risen, Divinity 2, NWN2, AP etc from developers who were actually good at making hard and tactical games.

So can you think of some really difficult games that come out nowadays?

Please mention games in last 9 years. We all know that 2003 was the last year of good DnD games.

By difficult I do not mean artificially difficult games, where the opposition has massive health and crazy resists for a few or even a single encounter (e.g .Herald of Zehir in SOZ) but genuinely tactical games that required you to find optmum strategies to defeat your foes (e.g. The old Black Isle IE games like BG, or Troika games like TOEE).

Do not mistake difficulty as something you can surpass easily with power builds. We are talking of difficulty that you would face as a a normal NON-cheesy build in the game, but a build that was not entirely retarded.

Also: Please list games that are HARD under the hard setting as well. We have to live on any scraps that are thrown to us today.

 

[Jaesun]

lol

 

[Wise Emperor]

Curse of the Azure Bonds.
Fuck it, all the Goldbox games were hard. Other, especially modern, were just tedious, not hard (Bloodlines I'm pointing at you).

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Can a non-PvP TB RPG be "hard?" As far as I know in both PnP and on computer only the learning curve poses a challenge (and possibly difficult people to cooperate with in PnP). Those who learn the mechanics don't seem to have much trouble unless they don't know where to go next or are at a difficult puzzle. Walkthroughs and spoilers not only tell you how to defeat challenges, they also make them pointless (the only thing they can't do for you is auto-raise your stats to be high enough or influence the RNG or give you more patience).

It would be more accurate to ask "Are there any really well DESIGNED modern CRPGs?" (under this there could be a number of things like world, highly interactive characters, combat, and even challenge provided by playing un-aided). The point is that a CRPG should be enjoyable for the player that latches onto it (PnP would probably not be nearly as fun if not for its modularity).

However, I can only speak generalities made from observation, notably the many play-throughs by The CRPG Addict.

 

[Captain Shrek]

^

Well, TOEE was hard even with an optimized party.

 

[hoverdog]

Knights of the Chalice was pretty hard, especially if you didn't grind on random encounters.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Knights of the Chalice was pretty hard, especially if you didn't grind on random encounters.

 

[Excidium]

Can a non-PvP TB RPG be "hard?" As far as I know in both PnP and on computer only the learning curve poses a challenge (and possibly difficult people to cooperate with in PnP). Those who learn the mechanics don't seem to have much trouble unless they don't know where to go next or are at a difficult puzzle. Walkthroughs and spoilers not only tell you how to defeat challenges, they also make them pointless (the only thing they can't do for you is auto-raise your stats to be high enough or influence the RNG or give you more patience).

It would be more accurate to ask "Are there any really well DESIGNED modern CRPGs?" (under this there could be a number of things like world, highly interactive characters, combat, and even challenge provided by playing un-aided). The point is that a CRPG should be enjoyable for the player that latches onto it (PnP would probably not be nearly as fun if not for its modularity).

However, I can only speak generalities made from observation, notably the many play-throughs by The CRPG Addict.

Strong candidate for dumbest post of the month

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Can a non-PvP TB RPG be "hard?" As far as I know in both PnP and on computer only the learning curve poses a challenge (and possibly difficult people to cooperate with in PnP). Those who learn the mechanics don't seem to have much trouble unless they don't know where to go next or are at a difficult puzzle. Walkthroughs and spoilers not only tell you how to defeat challenges, they also make them pointless (the only thing they can't do for you is auto-raise your stats to be high enough or influence the RNG or give you more patience).

It would be more accurate to ask "Are there any really well DESIGNED modern CRPGs?" (under this there could be a number of things like world, highly interactive characters, combat, and even challenge provided by playing un-aided). The point is that a CRPG should be enjoyable for the player that latches onto it (PnP would probably not be nearly as fun if not for its modularity).

However, I can only speak generalities made from observation, notably the many play-throughs by The CRPG Addict.

Strong candidate for dumbest post of the month

I really can't do better with what experience I have now or in the foreseeable future. I welcome a Codexian thesis rant to stir my inner scholar like those history of CRPG articles by Matt Barton (they really helped get me started on this awkward odyssey).

 

[betamin]

Those only exist with mods, like Improved Anvil.

 

[Nihilism]

Please mention games in last 9 years. We all know that 2003 was the last year of good DnD games.

D&D games, lol. D&D is a product; RPG is a concept. That's the problem. You want to pretend you're a member of your little D&D world. You go ahead. Some fat rich pricks own the rights to your pretend world, though, and they'll reel your broke ass in whenever they'll looking to be thrown a dime. I'll let new people create new things and support them based on that. You go ahead and seek out your licensed crap, though.

 

[I_am_Ian]

Your first pass along Arnika Road in Wizardry 8.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Your first pass along Arnika Road in Wizardry 8.

I never found that part any hard. I was stunned, I expected it to be super hard, and yet nothing serious happened. I think I reloaded once.

 

[Menckenstein]

MLB the Show

 

[Bulba]

there are lots of interesting/challenging rpgs and hybrid rpgs out there... right now I can think of frayed knights, m&b can be a real challange on higher dif for the less exp players, eador, inquisitor and so on

 

[Gregz]

Well, I found Dwarf Fortress so hard that I couldn't even figure out how to play it.

Looks like a cool game but the interface is nuts.

Knights of the Chalice was pretty hard, especially if you didn't grind on random encounters.

True, and so fun at the same time. If ever there was a game that needs a sequel yesterday it's KoTC.

 

[TripJack]

dorf fortress isnt an rpg it's a way of life

 

[Volourn]

"Well, TOEE was hard even with an optimized party."

No, it wasn't. It wa sone of the easiest DnD games ever.

Anywyas, i find no game 'hard' or I find all games 'hard'. Depends on your definition of 'hard.

 

[dibens]

DA:Origins



no but seriously, I played as a rogue (need to manually perform flanking attacks barred me from switching between party members) and it was hard as balls

 

[LeStryfe79]

Well the only way to make DA: Origins hard is to play sword and board on nightmare, and kick all the healers out. I did this, but for some reason, bioware saw fit to give me the same ending as if I'd fucked Morrigan. That was the last straw for me.

 

[DalekFlay]

I kept waiting for DA:O to get hard like the reviews said but it never happened. It was a sad moment. I did die a lot from fucking AoE spam attacks though.

I can't think of a hard RPG from the last 9 years, honestly. Shit, it's difficult trying to think of a hard game from any genre in that time. I remember Red Faction Guerrilla being a pain in the ass.

 

[Volourn]

"I kept waiting for DA:O to get hard like the reviews said but it never happened"

"I did die a lot"

'Nough said. 'Nough fukkin' said.

 

[Revenant]

Gothic II with the Night of the Raven expansion is very hard if you're playing it for the first time or don't know anything about powergaming in this title. It's pretty much the antithesis of modern casual gameplay - you have to actively search for decent weapons, think about where you are going if you want to survive. Not to mention that one wrong step while building the character can result in you not being able to beat the game at all. Or you can even play as a mage to take the difficulty to a whole new level.

 

[Mother Russia]

No rpgs are hard, TBH. For the ones that are, it is usually a matter of figuring things out.

Sometimes though, you end up with a saved game where you party is on low health, and you are on the verge of a tough encounter you cannot win thus you have to reload from an older save. This happened to me in Wiz 8.

 

[Delicieuxz]

Gothic II with the Night of the Raven expansion is very hard if you're playing it for the first time or don't know anything about powergaming in this title. It's pretty much the antithesis of modern casual gameplay - you have to actively search for decent weapons, think about where you are going if you want to survive. Not to mention that one wrong step while building the character can result in you not being able to beat the game at all. Or you can even play as a mage to take the difficulty to a whole new level.

All that, and, it's a must play game with amazing environments, great music, and incredibly detailed NPC societies.