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Gothic Returning 2.0 - The most ambitions mod and the closest thing to a GOOD remake that we ha

Discussion in 'Piranha Bytes' started by S0rcererV1ct0r, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Gothic 1 remake teaser had like 95% of approval among the people who answered the survey BUT if you look to steam achievements page of the game, most people did like myself and rage quitted after the first battle(around 2/3 of player base) and the survey link only got send after the game was complete. That said, for those who wanna a play Gothic 1 or Gothic 2 with modern graphics, i recommend the mod Returning. A picture of a necromancer in returning with the graphical changes

    [​IMG]
    Yep. This game wasa made in 2002 - From Sinitar Gaming(youtuber)
    That said, i will advice that the mod is not perfect.

    The cons :
    • Too hard to install
    • The translation to English is not good; It made very hard to know who i need to kill in the monastery in order to be accepted as a Dark magician aka necromancer. Also made very hard to find the reagents to make my Spear of Darkness spell. This is not a problem for Russian speakers. Is frustrating to spend LP to learn the circle 3, then LP to learn how to craft the spell and be unable to craft because you don't know what reagents are.
    • Too much power creep. On Gothic 1, as a circle 3 magician, i had problems engaging orcs. And shadowbeasts, i need at least circle 3 to have little chance and circle 4 to reliable take then down. On G2, is far harder. But on Gothic 2 returning, i killed shadow beasts when i got circle 1 magic. And at end game, according to some videos that i saw, you can summon armies of Archdevils. At this point i wonder if you serves Beliar or Beliar serves you... But even with this con, the game still extremely hard.
    The pros
    • Much more options. You can become a Xardas apprentice, something impossible on G2 despite Xardas being the guy who teaches circle 6 for you in the first game. Can also become a Water Mage despite Saturas not liking you due G1 reasons.
    • Much more skills and weapons. Polearms, shields, etc.
    • Much better graphics.
    • Much more hours of content. Not only on the main story line, but also quests depending your guild. You can even learn demoniac language if you are a necromancer(and it is not easy)
    • The mod is huge. Took me almost 50 hours to complete only the chapter 1 and 2. And i din't started with most optional content yet. Some people on the worldofgothic argue that the game is 250 hours long
    • Magic is not broken like original Gothic 2. Ice Block freezes stops when you attack enemies. Fear works in way less creatures. You can no longer cheeze even seekers with ice block + melee attacks. The duration of transformations are far more limited and summoning magic now has a mana upkeep. More skeletons you have, more mana per second it will consume. Offensive magic that was trash on original gothic 2, is now much more viable.
    The neutral
    • Too hard. Most of sleeping and eating features can be turned off if you choose "easy", but the game tends to have way a lot of powerful enemies to face you. Raven for example, took 8 tries for me to """"defeat"""" him and his encounter is nothing like the base game. Gothic 2 is already extremely hard for modern standards. This mod makes the game far harder. And is not only the combat who is hard. Get 30 INT(one of the requirements to become a necromancer) took so much time and effort that i literally backuped my save in case that my computer stops working. You get INT by performing intellectual tasks, reading books(that are expensive), using alchemy, etc.
    • Some story lines that makes no sense. For example, Xardas instead of a Dark Magician who uses dark magaic against Beliar agenda is apparently someone who serves Beliar in many parts and fight against him in others. The Swamp Camp gurus are also back despite having no reason to then exist after the fall of Barrier on G1. It by one side create a lot of interesting content, As a necromancer this is more exaggerated. In one day you are killing the most pure follower of Innos and in another you are working with Innos followers to get the Eye of Innos back from Beliar's followers. Not saying that the original Gothic 2 was perfect in this aspect. A fire magician paying at Beliar's shrine to get runes that summons undead makes no sense.

    I recommend Returning 2 for those who wanna play a Gothic experience with modern graphics. As well, new quests, new enemies, new places and a extremely challenging experience.
    A quick gameplay . The graphics are not that good exactly because i an playing in a low end notebook with playonlinux + wine and recording. I din't installed the DX11 stuff.
    gameplay (open)




    And a installation guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZCjjnG483U&list=PLqzmxRrbyviMMiDW9JoE3byIZm0w7TeUm
     
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  2. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    I played it and it's truly a great mod. The only serious negative is that some of the story reaches fanfiction levels of retardation, like the whole schtick with the
    Show Spoiler
    dragon in the ruins.
    Also, play on the hardest difficulty setting, it's more fun that way (though allowing to only save in the town is something for pure masochists). The key to survival is to perfectly learn enemy movesets and simply not get hit (though that tactic does not work with some enemies)
     
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  3. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Only be able to learn magic from Xardas or Water Mages instead of the Virgin/Homosexual guys on monastery already made this mod worth the trouble installation.

    PS : I will not raise the difficulty. I an already getting a lot of trouble on normal. Maybe in a second run.
     
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  4. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    This mod keeps popping up here once in a while. You can play it if you want to, but mind that it really is about fighting thousands of monsters (wait till you get to Mine Valley, where you can't make a step without fighting a group of orcs, worgs or dragon snappers) and killing bosses with tens of thousands HP, new quests and locations are crap, but combat got spiced up with new magic, fighting styles, weapons and enemies. So it's like Diablo meets Gothic with Skyrim and Dark Souls gear ported in, lol. Yeah, I heard that english translation is terrible, but I only played it in russian, so I don't know. Also, if you are going to play it, go for Alternative balance and not the original version, it's better in every single way, trust me.

    It was balanced for completionist/minmaxing approach, so bring on your metagaming skills. I'm willing to bet that you will drop it once you reach Plateu of Ancients, if you actually manage to make it that far.

    Get used to seeing fat healthbars
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  5. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    This huge hp bars aren't a problem as longs you can have an army of Archdemons...

    --------------------------------------------

    I an loving playing this game as a necromancer. BUt during the eye of innos questline, i just can't talk to the Water mage because the game starts in a ethernal cutscene where nothing happens . I tried everything. Including

    - Enter the circle for other side
    - Teleport to the circle via marvin
    - Spawn Vatras with console
    And nothing. Here is screenshot

    [​IMG]

    I an having so much good time as a necromancer. Why this buggs happens? Any way to skip'this cutscene. I just wanna get fun and enjoy the game. I HATE this parts where you lose control over your character. BE stuck in one forever while nothing happens is so awful, After it what i need to do to regain the control over my character?

    The camera keeps circling around the same 3 guys forever.
     
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  6. Mud' Educated

    Mud'
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    Alternative balance makes the mod harder or easier?
     
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  7. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    S0rcererV1ct0r
    Original returning 2 is pretty buggy, so it's unlikely that I can help. But the mod features a very long (it's over 5 minutes in length) dialogue between Xardas and Pirokar during their meeting at the Circle of Sun, so I'm guessing that in your case the game doesn't play sound files or something, try to wait until dialogue scene ends, but don't ask me for help if it doesn't work, camera is supposed to spin during their chat.

    Depends on the settings, AB is more customizable. Normal is generally easier and less tedious with fewer enemies, but you can crank it up to the insane levels of sadism if you'd like. But it's not about difficulty, AB removes a lot of retarded shit from the mod like: magic backlash of bosses, protagonist becoming crippled at low health, stuff ripped from Skyrim/Dark souls (not all of it), enemy health bloat and many other things.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  8. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    NOt only dialog BUT also no sub was being shown... I solved the problem by just waiting and pressing any way each some seconds due the awful autopause...

    WoW... CAn i install it in mid gameplay? I mean, i HATED that you need to talk to Boss and can't attack mainly playing as a necromancer. Why i can't start to bombard Raven with spells before talking to him?
     
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  9. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    No, it's not supported.
     
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  10. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Will play on my second run(will be a water mage)

    I was in doubt between necromancer or water mage BUT since i heard that a lot of bosses can insta kill every mob who isn't a demon, i decided to go necro only for demon summoning. Anyway, i can't get circle 4 runes. The reagents requireds to make the rune are contradicting themselves

    screens (open)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    .

    edit : about the huge health bars. At this video, you can see that took around half of a minute to kill a Black Troll using only circle 3 spells and summons as meatshields(not damage dealers). Fom 0:52 to 1:25. Fighting a dragon with 80 damage, would not take more than a couple of minutes not considering army of darkness and other stuff.



    I used MArvin only to test how much damage army of darkness deals to a 10k unique orc and they got downed in less than 5 seconds. Reloaded to my previous save and took around 30 seconds.

    I can't judge melee classes on this game but at least as a necromancer, i don't have anything to complain about the TTK/TTD(time to kill/time to die). Orc warriors dies from one hit of my spear of darkness Snappers too. Shadowbeasts, i can take down in few hits.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  11. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    Inb4 you look at your statistics in the end game, see that the amount of killed monsters exceeds 7 thousand, remember all the bullshit and retarded quests, bad translation, annoying bosses, boring locations and think to yourself "Meh, I'm not doing it again". Anyway, water mages are pretty dope, they get good CC with their spells and some spells also deal bonus damage against disabled targets, in later game it looks like this.


    Yeah, there are some strict rules on summoning, I've never played a summoner myself, but it goes something like this: lesser summons automatically die near bosses; only a limited amount of summons allowed to attack a boss; skeleton takes 1 slot, demon takes 2, you can raise the number of slots by raising certain parameter, but I can't remember which one; the summons will die if they exceed the limit. So basically you have to be a good enough mage to be allowed to use summons against bosses.

    Recipes in the book seem to be the correct ones.

    Jharkendar is easy in returning, easier than the first chapter, the game only starts to bite once you get to the Valley of Mines, but since you've already acquired Eye of Inoos, you know how it is. And the black troll has suspiciously low amount of health, are you playing on normal difficulty ? As for the dragons, leave them for the very late game, they've been buffed significantly. They spam unavoidable AOE that hits you for over 1000 damage, they also summon minions and rapidly regenerate their health while those minions are alive. So, bring a lot of potions with you and complete everything you can before fighting them: massiaf hideout (don't be fooled by generally easy enemies, ending portion of it is 20 times harder), orc city + orc mine (valley of shadows can be saved for later, because Azgalor is stronger even than the ice dragon), quests of the keepers, old brotherhood camp, plateau of ancients, merchant's guild, fort azgan, sleeper's temple, snow location in the mountains, etc. Majority of the quests become unavailable in later game and since the mod is balanced around minmaxing you're heavily fucking yourself over if you miss them. It's another advantage of AB, it makes those quests/locations harder or outright impossible to miss.

    Good, good. There are no weak classes in returning 2, unless you try to play hybrids. The general consensus is this:
    • Melee is the best in 1vs1 (2h and dual wield users hit even the strongest bosses for over 1k damage per swing), has very steady progression, but struggles against groups for the majority of the game;
    • Mages are the hardest to join, great at clearing regular monsters and usually have uneven progression due to how spell circles work, they also aren't as good at fighting bosses;
    • Archers are somewhere in between mages and melee users;
    Also, if I remember correctly necromancer has the lowest damage out of any class, only the pure rapier user might be weaker.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  12. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Thanks a lot. About necromancer, ARCHdevils can sustain a lot of hits from even bosses(at least on normal) and i decided. Will play with alternative balancing and re start as a water mage but there is a problem. How i install? Only found german installations and when i copy the .VDF files, the game crashes... And by some reason i can't do the quest to get the demoniac language, nor access to arch devils.. So i can't beat like the walktrough that i saw months before...

    PS : I had no trouble clearing the Orcs around the castle but this dragon, on my first try i only took 30k of his hp.

    edit : here is the error

    [​IMG]

    PS 2 : IS hard to become a water mage? GRind 30 int was pretty hard...
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  13. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    https://rpgrussia.com/threads/alternativnyj-balans-ssylki-na-mod-ustanovka-log.13992/ - authors were kind enough to translate the intruction to english

    To learn demon language you have to be nice to that crazy necromancer in the cave, I can't remember if it requires a persuasion check or not, but you have to say that you doubt his linguistic skills. Don't know anything about archdevils.

    Every magic guild is difficult to join, there are no exceptions.
     
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  14. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Well, i din't found any instruction on english and even tryed google translator. Is the same thing; copy the VDF and get the same error over and over... Even on faq, no mention to errors or how to install ( https://rpgrussia.com/threads/returning-2-0-ab-tips-for-beginners-english-faq.14430/ )

    Joining a guild and becoming a necromancer are two different things.

    AS a necromancer, to become part of "guild of darkness you need to :"
    1. Talk to Vatras
    2. Talk to Xardas and wait few days sleeping
    But to become a fully fledged necromancer, you need to

    1. then grind INT by reading, doing alchemy, etc(and books are expensive because the game is medieval), alchemy is also expensive on early game
    2. Do a complicated quest involving killing the most pure follower of Innos, the god of fire, justice and light and his follower is in a fortificated monastery with little clue about who you need to kill
    That said, the first two steps took less than half of a hour. The second two steps, took more than 10 hours. My point is. I would love to play returning since the beginning again BUT not grind INT points and do other boring stuff. What i need to do to become one?

    MAybe i will purchase water mage scrolls to try his magic. But play agains if it means grind 30 INT, sorry but i prefer play G3 again...

    PS : Any mod who allows you to manually aim on G3?
     
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  15. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    Dude, I linked you the page with installation instructions written in english, why are you talking about gameplay FAQ ? As for the bugs, errors and similar shit, the mod is a mess to begin with and nobody really bothered to properly translate it or test it on non-russian versions, which likely leads to even more errors if you are using those. I'm not familiar with any of that, the only advice I can give to you is to properly reinstall Gothic 2 and returning 2 and only then add AB on top.
    1. Install Gothic 2 NoTR, but not in the Program Files;
    2. Install returning 2 and additional software that comes with it: vcredist, directx, gothic 2 fix and playerkit;
    3. Install 4GB memory patch and shw32.dll library, these also come packaged with returning 2 installer;
    4. Install AB.
    These are the screenshots of the page I linked you:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Don't even start that, you understood perfectly what I meant, of course you are joining a magic guild to become a mage, why else ?

    Ah, but I see that you are already approaching the point where you can give returning 2 appreciation and recognition it deserves.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Thanks a lot for teh help. I will install AFTER i finishes with the returning without balance alterations. Already killed 3 dragons. The ice dragon was by FAR the hardest one. I even tried to attack him with a army of 63 demons but the game crashed(and i was bleeding so much mana and life to maintain this army), tried with fire mage scrolls but apparently, they deal less damage than my necromancies With a small army(25 demons), i could focus only on the ice dragon and it wasn't destroying my mana/health that much(consumed about 60 potions in total). The fire dragon in other hands took around 3 minutes but got destroyed on my first try.

    [​IMG]
    Anyway, thanks a lot for your help.

    I plan to beat it as a necro and then beat again as a water mage.

    Now i will kill the stone dragon to fullfil start ACT V and be able to learn circle 5 spells(only circle of darkness. A amazing spell vs non bosses)
     
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  17. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    The dragons was hard but thinking a little, make sense. I mean, on core G2 you can fear the dragons and punch then to their death. Makes sense that they would be far harder. that they can cast high level spells, have minions and a lot of HP.. I just think that is too hard to face this powerful enemies in a "profitable way". For those who believe that necromancer is weak vs bosses,

    With 243 INT and 11% mag power


    Circle 3 :

    My spear of Darkness deals 461 damage and cosnumes 30 mana
    Firestorm deals 350 damage and consumes 30 mana BUT lowers enemy fire resist on 30%

    Circle 2 :

    Ice LAnce - 15 mana for 239 damage
    Exhaustion - 15 mana for 239 damage

    BUT there is a catch. Fire mages and Water mages has charged spells like Ball lightning that Dark Mages doesn't have and has access to fire rain and storm AoE spells that necro doesn't have. I have the impression that the guys who says that necromancers are weak tryes to use only one or two minions and try to use skeletons vs bosses. VS bosses, you need AT LEAST a lesser demon(circle 4) and as Uncle Joe says "quantity is a quality by itself". Have a army of this lesser demons and wreck havoc everywhere.



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Since everything is closed in my country due DUMB reasons, i an playing a lot of this game but i an stuck on chapter 5.

    For those who doesn't know, on chap 5, Xardas leaves ihis tower and gave to me a letter giving a hint about how to find a useful book(this part is ok but IDK if he gives the letter if you aren't a necromancer/his apprentice). O picked the book that he left in the monastery easily but i can't understand his instructions. Already walked and tryed to visit close isles like 5 times and nothing.

    the book (open)

    [​IMG]


    I really wanna learn circle 5 despite only being one spell to learn from circle 5. And other quest that i have a problem is the "sacrificial gift", i can't complete this quest since chapter 3. I already walked a lot on the monastery and tryed to interact with everything or use the heart everywhere and nothing

    the quest description (open)

    [​IMG]


    This quest is extremely important. According to RPG russia forum(translated via google translator, so i an not sure), i need to complete this quest BEFORE i can talk to another guy who can teaches demoniac language and to summon greater devils and arch devils, i need it. Kill the 4 dragons with only lesser demons that dies in two hits took a long time and was hard. Imagine creatures stronger than this dragons without at least a greater devil.
     
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  18. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    Quests of the keepers, you're in deep shit, they are awfully written, boring and very confusing (like everything in this mod really), this is the second one and it's very easy, there are like 9 of them in total and they just keep getting worse as you progress. I'll help you with this one, but after that you're on your own, I'm not wasting my time translating walkthroughs for the quests of a shitty mod.
    1. Get the book "Sacrificial souls" from the monastery of fire mages, it's in the basement in the room beind Talamon. You can bypass him by using meatbug transformation scrolls or just by progression the story far enough. Since you've reached chapter 5 already it shouldn't be a problem;
    2. The book contains recipe of a potion, craft it;
    3. Equip the ring that the first keeper (Dagoth) gave to you;
    4. Find Beliar's altar (there's one in Xardas' tower) and pray, a unique dialogue option should appear;
    5. Turn in the quest.
    As for the Xardas' book and necromancer's quests I can't help you, never played a necromancer and I have no idea what's that about. Just stop torturing yourself with this abomination of a mod, if you feel like slaughtering monsters go play: Diablo, Wizardry and the likes, Doom, anything but this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  19. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Well, i walked ALL day in the secret location and in the first 4 books and found nothing related to "sacrificial souls" only one recipe about healing...

    PS : The greatest mod problem is not the hordes of enemies. Is this quests who require foretelling to know what to do... How i an supposed to find this book

    PS 2 : There are a guardian on temple of Adanos that takes NO DAMAGE from anything and has 60k hp if i remember correctly. There are something that i an missing?

    Edit : There are also a lot of new/old locations and quests that i can't complete(like sleeper's temple, dark weeb) due the poor translation...
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  20. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    It's not a stand, it's an item that lies on the table.

    Yeah, not even russians could figure out any of that shit in the mod without guides, it's really terribly written.
     
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  21. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Thanks a lot for the help. You helped me so much. I had to "climb" the table to be able to pick the book. Will continue to play this mod for more time and see if i can figure out how to access sleeper's temple, where Xardas is after chap 5, how to learn demoniac, how to access other areas that i wanna and why the Adanos guardian is taking zero damage. I also had to use "marvin" many times. Why? The books say that a spell requires a component "X", the crafting sheet says that requires "Y" and i could't figure out what the fuck is "resin". The game also gives little information about how to find "ore bar" and "ore ingot" to senior/higher runestones...Luckily i got one in the old mine. And had to search NPc's to help your craftin.

    The most by one side has the best implementation of necromancy ever and also added cool challenges. Dragons aren't pushovers that you can use fear and punch him to death. They are powerful magical being capable to casting the most powerful spells, making you take cold/heat damage only by being near then and raise a army of summons. Dragons are a meneacing threat. Orcs too. Are far harder. Eliute balck orcs are too powerful.

    I missed SOOO many things. The capability to create your own camp(in dexters farm), the assassin's guild questline, din't found the other guy that can teach necromancy...

    -------------------------------------------

    Anyone knows a mod like returning who adds a lot to the game, including the option to become a water magician and a Xardas apprentice but actually have a good translation?
     
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  22. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
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    [​IMG]

    No. Gothic has never become popular outside of Eastern Europe and Germany, basically only poles, russians and germans create content for Gothic or even know about existence of the series. For some reasion they almost never bother to translate their work, so unless you know their language you're pretty much fucked.
     
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  23. deama Liturgist

    deama
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    UK
    I really wanna play this, but seeing as how buggy it seems (especially if you don't get the native version), and I don't know russian, I'm not quite sure what to do.
    Does this have a german translation? Any good?
     
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  24. S0rcererV1ct0r Savant

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    The german version seems to be better than the english but at the same time worst than the english and you find way more threads and guides on how to solve certain quests on german than on english. I have more than 100 hours on this mod and ... Din't understood what the fuck is "resin", never saw this reagent. Some times they appear on crafting UI some on book recipe, so is confusing but i had to use marvin to be able to get the summon demon rune because i could't found this reagent anywhere... Other problem is that get GOLD in the mod is too dan hard and in order to maintain your demoniac army, you need Sakta Nomen that costs 50 LP (hard) and 50.000 gold (insanely hard)

    I suggest to try the mod but to play on easy/normal. Even on the easiest difficulty, the game is extremely harder than notr.

    And IMO necromancer on the hardest difficulty is just impossible; Why? Much more gold consumed on potions almost every encounter due enemy health inflation. And due the fact that you gain way less LP and takes way more LP than vanilla gothic to learn everything, having to learn the 6 circles(costs 20 only for circle 1 and 40 for 2 if i remember correctly), demonology, demonology spells(40 for the circle 4 lesser demon), all spells, Sakta Nomen(...) Even gaining 20 lp / level was very hard to play as a necro.

    That is sad....

    I live in southern part of Brazil, the brother of my ex girlfriend who was of german ancestry reccomended gothic to me.and i loved every one(g1/g2/g3), there are tons of GER/RUS let's play but ENG, only Sinitar Gaming...

    ------------------------------

    If someone wanna only play as a necro without the BS oif grinding INT, i can upload my save where i finally got 30 INT and post a link here
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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  25. Sjukob Magister

    Sjukob
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,186
    Frankly, the bugs in the mod aren't that scary, the latest version (and AB especially) run well enough, it's terrible writting and bad design that are much worse, especially if you don't know russian.

    Great, sucks that there are really no games like Gothic, except other Piranha's stuff, but Elex is pretty bad and when it comes to Risen trilogy only the first game is good. Well, try playing Nox, may be you'll like it. Just like in Gothic the combat system mainly relies on player's skill, exploration is pretty good too, there are 3 different classes, but the game features isometric perspective instead, it's also more humorous and fairytale-like. You might also check out Arx Fatalis if you want to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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