Rift / Vive / VR General

[ZVERMIX]

I guess it's better to wait for Valve's second iteration, which is bound to be soon and cheaper.

 

[biggestboss]

Definitely Oculus Quest since you can use it as a wireless standalone or connect it to PC (which makes Rift S obsolete). They just added a new update for full hand tracking.

Hey, you happen to have patch/update notes on the full hand tracking? I recently just purchased an Oculus Quest specifically to develop VR games and this is huge if true.

 

[Venser]

Hey, you happen to have patch/update notes on the full hand tracking? I recently just purchased an Oculus Quest specifically to develop VR games and this is huge if true.

Thought it was out already but now I see it's planned for early 2020
https://www.oculus.com/blog/introdu...ringing-your-real-hands-into-vr/?locale=en_US

 

[Venser]

HYPE?

 

[Puteo]

I guess it's better to wait for Valve's second iteration, which is bound to be soon and cheaper.

There's nothing left to iterate on. Their two biggest costs are the screen and the IR receivers.

Screen is made by Samsung so they have no cost leverage or potential for improvement there.

Threading the sensor ribbon is a big cost that won't go down.

Laser base stations have been re-engineered at least twice.

The sensors themselves are on like V3 or 4 of re-engineering for cost reduction.

I guess if by 'soon' you mean 2-3 years then sure. have fun lol

 

[ZVERMIX]

There's nothing left to iterate on. Their two biggest costs are the screen and the IR receivers.

I was under the impression that Index has some new/proprietary Valve tech, hence the price difference.

Is it just slightly better screens and sensors, controllers and overall build quality?

Can someone who actually uses it frequently comment on whether the QoL is worth the 500$ difference for their taste?
Are their controllers more comfortable and/or do they provide more input channels?

 

[Dexter]

I was under the impression that Index has some new/proprietary Valve tech, hence the price difference.

Is it just slightly better screens and sensors, controllers and overall build quality?

Can someone who actually uses it frequently comment on whether the QoL is worth the 500$ difference for their taste?
Are their controllers more comfortable and/or do they provide more input channels?

You have essentially three Options:

Entry-Level: A WMR (Windows Mixed Reality) Headset, these go as low as $150-200 when they're on a deal and will allow you to see what this "VR" thing is all about. You've got stuff like the Lenovo Explorer at the lower-end or Samsung Odyssey+ at the Higher end with a higher resolution. They don't necessarily "lack" features, but they don't have the best screens/resolution and are often not the most comfortable or ergonomic they could be. The tracking happens via two cameras looking out leading to the worst but still workable results out of all choices and they come with two Motion controllers that are functional but not the best.

For example here's one that's just $130 and would work perfectly fine as an entry point: https://www.microcenter.com/product/608531/hp-mixed-reality-headset-and-controllers---black

Mid-Tier: Oculus owns this area by default at around $400-500 with their Oculus Quest (Standalone that will soon get the ability to be used as a PC Headset via Link) and Oculus Rift S. They have some of the best and ergonomic Controllers with their "Touch", although imo they were probably a bit better for the Original Rift and the Tracking happens via 4 or 5 Cameras looking out from the Headset similar to the WMR ones, just with greater precision (though you might still run into issues at low light situations or if you have mirrors near to where you play and similar). You also get Access to the Facebook game library (with stuff like Asgard's Wrath, Stormland, Lone Echo 1+2, Defector, Chronos, Edge of Nowhere, Vader Immortal, Robo Recall, Brass Tactics, Wilson's Heart, Lucky's Tale, The Climb, Arktika.1. Defense Grid 2 etc.) by default with these, while you'd have to use "ReVive" to be able to play them using WMR or SteamVR Headsets. Also you'll have to decide whether you "trust" Facebook with them not pulling the plug on their Semi-Open platform policy and lock their HMD to their Store completely or them having access to Cameras in your home.

Enthusiast: Valve Index has (arguably) the best Controllers with their Knuckles and they're a lot more similar to the Oculus Touch Controllers than the Vive Wands were. Also the best and most accurate Tracking system when moving through space, though you will have to put the two "Base Stations" that come with it on opposite sides of a room and need some free space, it also has off-ear headphones that are rather good and some of the best general hardware with one of the higher resolution screens with high (up to 144Hz) refresh rate and one of the highest Fields of View from most commercial Headsets. You'll definitely notice the difference over a Vive or your usual WMR set, but it's the most expensive.

This is how the Tracking system works with A and B being the "Base Stations" and the play space between them

Outliers: Then there are a few Outliers, the Original Vive is rather uncomfortable without the "Deluxe Audio Strap" Add-On, has been left in the dust in resolution and the Vive Wands will likely be phased out as Controller choice, since the Valve Knuckles, Oculus Touch and WMR Controllers are a lot closer to the same design than the Vive Wands which don't even have sticks, but there'd be an Upgrade path to the Valve Index (which can use and works with the Vive Wands and the Base Stations of the Original Vive). The Vive Pro is just a more expensive Option that has a similar resolution to the Valve Index, but is worse than it in most areas. It'd be pretty stupid to get those now if you don't have some sort of special deal.

Then there are the HP Reverb with a 4K Screen, but which comes with the Controllers and most of the downsides of a cheap WMR Headset and the Chinese Pimax 4K/8K that are highly experimental and don't really have great Firmware and Support. These are also some of the most Expensive choices up there or outpacing the Valve Index. Imo these are only recommendable for Sim Enthusiasts mostly using them for Flight or Racing Sims that don't need the better Motion Controller options or perfect tracking, but require a high resolution (and have the PCs to run them).



If you want to get into VR, these are your current Options. I don't think waiting for "Next Gen" will do much right now, since both the Valve Index and Oculus Quest/Rift S were just released (May and June of 2019) and you'll be waiting 2-3 years for anything new. What might happen though is that they get a markdown in price and are priced $100-200 cheaper in a few months or a year or there's deals for getting them cheaper on specific dates.

 

[ZVERMIX]

Valve Index has (arguably) the best Controllers with their Knuckles and they're a lot more similar to the Oculus Touch Controllers than the Vive Wands were

I read up on it, and remembered they have proprietary finger and grip tracking tech in those controllers. From what I understand, none of the other controllers have that.
Which means you have a unique gaming experience, Valve just needs to make developers support it.
I'm sure the HLVR game will make good use of that.

 

[Dexter]

I read up on it, and remembered they have proprietary finger and grip tracking tech in those controllers. From what I understand, none of the other controller have that.
Which means you have a unique gaming experience, Valve just needs to make developers support it.
I'm sure the HLVR game will make good use of that.

See here: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rift-vive-vr-general.109448/page-3#post-5677998

This pretty much shows what the different Controllers can track and do, the Vive Wands only had the Trigger and Grip button and the capacitive pad, the Oculus Touch had touch sensors on all buttons, Trigger, Grip button and the Stick and the Knuckles Controller has Tracking for all buttons and each finger individually (helped by a machine learning algorithm that learns from you using it for like 30-60 minutes and gets better after), as well as a "grip" feature, but more interesting is that you can "put" these around your hands and can grip them to pick something up or even let go of the controller (it won't fall down) to drop something instead of having to use the Grip button the Knuckles doesn't even have, it can at times be a bit less comfy than the OG Oculus Touch though, they did a real good job on those from a product design point:

Introducing SteamVR Skeletal Input:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/1690421280625220068

HTC Vive Wands

Oculus Touch Controllers

Knuckles EV2

The difference between the Vive Wands and the other Controllers is large, I'm not particularly sure how helpful the additional features of the Knuckles are for actual gameplay though, given that barely any game uses them so far and most tend to go with developing for parity with Oculus/SteamVR/WMR, but theoretically I guess they're at least better for immersion.

 

[Venser]

Meanwhile I play on PSVR with move controllers that don't even have thumbsticks

 

[Insect Hordes]

My prediction is that Oculus will get in cahoots with PS5. You'll almost certainly see all the Insomniac games find their way to the console. I'd like to splurge for an upgrade to Index but I know the price will drop when the Half Life shit is imminent. My next PC move will be for whatever nvidia shit is top of the line when Doom and Cyberpunk are about to come out. Right now my CV1 is still pretty fucking great. Asgard's Wrath didn't blow me away. Feels like it takes forever to chip away at badguys. Stuff I've played seems to require parrying special moves in order to actually do real damage. So you're just mostly waiting because even Errol Flynn would just be chopping wood. Inventory and menu shit ain't great either. Stormlands I've only played about 90 minutes of. The aiming is extremely naturalistic. I don't even need the gun visible to pluck off shots like I'm Jerry Miculek. Both those newest games have a major deficiency for me in that they don't have physics for when you just kind of toss something out off your hand. Shit'll just drop and it looks lame. The gold standard for goofball shit that is way more amazing than it should be is in Robo Recall. In the main office there is a coffee cup and a wadded up piece of paper and you can just toss it up and catch it in the cup. Endlessly fascinating.

 

[ZVERMIX]

I'd like to splurge for an upgrade to Index but I know the price will drop when the Half Life shit is imminent.

Hoping for that as well.
Also hoping they finally make a worldwide launch, so I don't have to import it myself for a huge mark-up in price with no local support or warranty.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I'd probably give an Oculus Quest a try if the price comes down to 300 Euroshekels. Which likely will be never.

 

[Venser]

 

[Dexter]

Coming out today:

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

anyone looking for a occulus rift in original packaging plus 3 sensors and want to spend NZ$500 click here

Spoiler

 

[Venser]

 

[Venser]

 

[Venser]

Somehow I totally missed that this came out.

 

[Dexter]

https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-beat-saber-studio-beat-games/

Facebook Acquires ‘Beat Saber’ Studio Beat Games
By Scott Hayden
Nov 26, 2019

Facebook today announced it has acquired Beat Games, the studio behind the hit VR rhythm game Beat Saber (2018). Beat Games is joining Oculus Studios as an independently operated team based out of Prague.

Facebook didn’t release any further info in regards to the terms of acquisition, however the company had some choice words on what it meant to the game’s users on all supported platforms, which includes Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest, HTC Vive, Valve Index, and Windows VR headsets.

Mike Verdu, Facebook’s Director of AR/VR Content, said Beat Games will “continue to ship content and updates for Beat Saber at the same time across all currently supported platforms.”

Concerning the moddablity of game, which is a cornerstone of its functionality on PC VR and to some extent also Quest, Verdu had this to say:

We understand and appreciate the value that modding brings to Beat Saber when done so legally and within our policies. We’re going to do our best to preserve the value that mods bring to the Beat Saber player base. As a reminder, our most recent policy updates give more clarity to how developer mode is intended to be used, such as helping developers build their apps or for enthusiasts to explore new concepts. It is not intended for engaging in piracy or illicit modding, including mods that infringe on third-party IP rights or contain malicious code.

Although not stated specifically, it’s not unlikely that by “third-part IP rights” Facebook is implying the distribution of music and its corresponding beat maps may no longer be sanctioned by Beat Games under Facebook, which has thus far operated in a grey area legally. Sony doesn’t allow modding of Beat Saber for PSVR for the same legal reasons. We’ve reached out to Beat Games to clarify this, and will update when/if we hear back.

As for the road map forward, Verdu says Beat Games has “only scratched the surface with Beat Saber in terms of social features, new modes, music, and more.”

After Sony’s acquisition of Insomniac Games, it’s possible Facebook has begun looking to strategically mark its territory by locking down the rights to Beat Saber, one of the most visible games in VR right now. Facebook thus far hasn’t publicly acquired a VR studio, potentially making this a big first for the company, which is confident in securing what Mark Zuckerberg hopes will one day reach a billion people, even if it’s admittedly taking longer than he initially hoped.

As an indie studio that’s sold well over one million copies of its game as of March 2019, and also signed some fairly high-level deals with bands such as Imagine Dragons and Panic at the Disco!, Facebook’s cash will undoubtedly also provide the studio with a means to secure more and bigger music deals. What Beat Games has up its sleeve next, we aren’t sure yet though, and whether Facebook bought it defensively or offensively is still to be determined.

https://www.oculus.com/blog/welcoming-beat-games-to-facebook/

Welcoming Beat Games to Facebook
Oculus-Blog
Mike Verdu, Director of Content
26. November 2019

The shared experiences of games are profoundly memorable ones, and for millions of people, Beat Saber was their first encounter with immersive VR gaming. Today we’re announcing that Beat Games is joining us in our quest to bring VR to more people around the world. They will join Oculus Studios as an independently operated studio in Prague, continuing to create new ways for people to experience music and VR gaming. Most importantly, what the community has come to love about Beat Saber will remain intact. Beat Games will continue to ship content and updates for Beat Saber across all currently supported platforms, now with even more support from Facebook.

Beat Games’ accomplishments are already impressive, but Facebook and the Beat Games team know that there is so much more that can be done across VR, games, and music. They have only scratched the surface with Beat Saber in terms of social features, new modes, music, and more. We are thrilled to join forces to see where this talented team takes VR gaming in the future.

Beat Saber is a perfect example of why VR is so exciting—VR reimagines old genres and invents new ones. The team at Beat Games made a leap forward in innovation and design with the stellar blend of game mechanics and music in Beat Saber, and yet we know that they, along with so many other devs, are just getting started.

We know the community will have questions, so we’ve answered a few here:

What about 360° Levels mode? And more music? And all the other stuff you’ve talked about doing?
Beat Games is still shipping 360° Levels mode in December, and more music is coming this year, too!

Do you plan to acquire other studios? What else are you doing to accelerate VR?
We’re exploring many ways to accelerate VR, and we think next year is going to be an incredible one of VR game launches and announcements. We are thrilled to have Beat Games join our team. This is just the beginning.

Why Beat Games?
Beat Games is a strong team with proven potential across VR, games, and music. With the resources and know-how that we can offer, Beat Games will be able to accelerate, adding more music and more exciting features to Beat Saber as well as bringing the game to more people.

There’s a long history of indie studios joining larger companies and being ruined. How are you going to avoid that?
I’ve been in the industry for a while and have seen that firsthand. However, I’ve also seen and been a part of some incredible success stories. The story we aim to prove over time is this: An indie studio joins forces with some like-minded allies, and together they find a way to push VR to new heights.

What does this mean for the modding community?
We understand and appreciate the value that modding brings to Beat Saber when done so legally and within our policies. We’re going to do our best to preserve the value that mods bring to the Beat Saber player base. As a reminder, our most recent policy updates give more clarity to how developer mode is intended to be used, such as helping developers build their apps or for enthusiasts to explore new concepts. It is not intended for engaging in piracy or illicit modding, including mods that infringe on third-party IP rights or contain malicious code.

Are you going to be slowing down updates for non-Oculus platforms and prioritizing development for Oculus?
No, Beat Games will continue to ship content and updates for Beat Saber at the same time across all currently supported platforms.

Does this mean Beat Games will no longer be independent?
The Beat Games team will operate the same way they have to date as an independent studio, and they’ll continue to work on Beat Saber across all currently supported platforms.

https://www.pcgamer.com/vr-is-a-very-high-priority-for-the-microsoft-flight-simulator-team/

VR is a 'very high' priority for the Microsoft Flight Simulator team
By Fraser Brown 11 hours ago

(Image credit: Microsoft)

I've noticed plenty of people saying that they'll finally jump on the VR bandwagon because of Half-Life: Alyx, but there's another game that makes strapping a big ol' headset to your face an incredibly seductive prospective: Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Last month, head of Microsoft Flight Simulator Jörg Neumann said that VR hadn't originally been part of the plan, but the reaction to the E3 reveal and the assumption that it would support VR straight away made Asobo Studio and Microsoft reconsider things. In a new interview with Der Standard (cheers, AVSIM), Neumann has now confirmed that it's a "very high" priority for the team.

"Asobo and I have years of experience with VR," Neumann told Der Standard. "We know what a lazy and a good implementation look like. We want to bring a good solution, for example by cutting off the cockpit from the rest of the world. Then you can move freely in it, and the world in the background does not start to shimmer. We have started with VR, but we want to do it right."

Previously, Neumann said that VR at launch couldn't be guaranteed, and there's still no word on when it might appear, but I suspect most will be happy to wait if it means it works properly.

Along with VR, the team is also adding more to its impressive digital facsimile of Earth, including trains, ships and lots of animals. Seasons are being considered, too. Apparently its easy to just add snow to the game, but in the real world there more to winter than just snow. It affects rives, vehicles and animals.

"The snow has to melt at some point, then the rivers are very different," said Neumann. "But that's the same with animals. Bears are known to sleep in winter. Some animals fly south, others north. We talk a lot about how far we can do that."

Microsoft Flight Simulator's first alpha started on October 24, with another one planned for this month. If you've not played or received an invite, remember to become an Insider and register for the tests. All you need is a Microsoft account and then you can sign up here.

 

[Venser]

You BEAT me to it.
Massive decline. Fuck facebook

 

[Dexter]

Cheapest it's ever been:

 

[Dexter]

 

[Doktor Best]

A turnspeed modifier was added to Quake VR and the mod is awesome now. Already played through the first chapter yesterday. I highly recommend it, although maybe not if youre a VR initiate (as youre moving really fast in Quake naturally)

https://github.com/Fishbiter/Quakespasm-OpenVR/releases

 

[AdamReith]

The news above prompted me to break out beat sabre again. I played it once when the guys were over and hadn't touched it since. Still pretty fun.

So sad nobody ever delivered on a sweet matrix style gun-fu game though. Everything other than BS seems like complete garbage.

EDIT: And why the fuck hasn't there been a time crisis or house of the dead port. What a shit show.